LeoSalinas22
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cheating on God...
- Thread starter LeoSalinas22
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I want to caution legalism here. We have liberty in Christ.. We are taught to do all things unto Christ.. Its where self-control comes in with a dose of common sense which He gave us liberally. You can have a big mac unto the Lord but its not good for you to eat them 3 meals a day.
God also made us for His good pleasure and it brings Him pleasure when we find pleasure in His creation. By being in fellowship with Him we learn to hear Him. He will convict us if there is sin in our life.. there is no need to go looking for it in everything we do..We are saturated with it and so is the world.. He knows all our secret sins that we dont even know we commit. We are under grace..if He convicts us of sin we repent and change that part of our life... He doesnt expect us to do it all at once. He is kind and not a slavemaster. Get what I mean?
this is what I meant about resting and knowing He is God. Let Him be the God and the rest will fall into place.
God also made us for His good pleasure and it brings Him pleasure when we find pleasure in His creation. By being in fellowship with Him we learn to hear Him. He will convict us if there is sin in our life.. there is no need to go looking for it in everything we do..We are saturated with it and so is the world.. He knows all our secret sins that we dont even know we commit. We are under grace..if He convicts us of sin we repent and change that part of our life... He doesnt expect us to do it all at once. He is kind and not a slavemaster. Get what I mean?
this is what I meant about resting and knowing He is God. Let Him be the God and the rest will fall into place.
LeoSalinas22
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but my point is that all these things are subtle. seem harmless. i gave dauer which to me is a very good example. comic books are loaded with false gods. people actually look up to these characters instead of God. and you are right. the world is so saturated with this crap! but if you think about it, this same crap will not make us steadfast and what will happen is the whole thief in the night. i know you and dondi understand this but what about the rest of us? they are so distracted that they won't even know what hit 'em until it is too late. as far as God taking pleasure in the things He creates i understand. but the works of man? He considers an abomination. i set my self up as an example so people can see. again, i know you understand, but what about people like 17th? you said it yourself. this is life and death. this is very serious.
I know what your saying.. but my post is directed at you.. whom I consider a brother in the faith.. He will never let us fall a fatal fall.. If I am ever in doubt I look to Him and try to be fervent in prayer about ALL things. If Im not sure what He thinks.. I just ask Him. Prayer is as much listening as speaking.
I dont expect 17th to understand what Im saying...not really, ya know?
You can open yourself up to a stumble by being too works oriented which is what I was trying to get across.
I still play video games.. sure not the same ones. If I get the heebie jeebies which I call my discernment radar I wont play it..
I still listen to music.. instead of the Metallica I used to love I now listen to Todd Agnew or Jeremy Camp..
I still watch scary movies just not gore.. I just watched The Reaping which was good. How can we be good ambassadors of Christ if we cannot speak the same language. I come to work and tell my friend it was a good movie.. he should watch it.. he goes and sees it and we talk about it.. and the fact that it has slight biblical aspects brings up a mini bible study.. So in watching that movie Im edifying Christ.. get it? hehe
anyways. Im not sure how serious your post was.. I was just trying to impart some wisdom I gathered in my walk. Take it or leave it
I dont expect 17th to understand what Im saying...not really, ya know?
You can open yourself up to a stumble by being too works oriented which is what I was trying to get across.
I still play video games.. sure not the same ones. If I get the heebie jeebies which I call my discernment radar I wont play it..
I still listen to music.. instead of the Metallica I used to love I now listen to Todd Agnew or Jeremy Camp..
I still watch scary movies just not gore.. I just watched The Reaping which was good. How can we be good ambassadors of Christ if we cannot speak the same language. I come to work and tell my friend it was a good movie.. he should watch it.. he goes and sees it and we talk about it.. and the fact that it has slight biblical aspects brings up a mini bible study.. So in watching that movie Im edifying Christ.. get it? hehe
anyways. Im not sure how serious your post was.. I was just trying to impart some wisdom I gathered in my walk. Take it or leave it
Dondi
Well-Known Member
Frances King said:
I once long ago (so long ago) when I was about 15 at this Christian camp had one counselor tell me that the horror book I was reading would have detrimental effects on me in 5 years or so. I wasn't sure what he was talking about, it was just a Stephen King novel. He said that books like that will affect how you think later in life. I wonder how much that is true. By the time I was 20, I had all but abandoned church and God. But I didn't attribute this to reading Stephen King, I had other issues besides my reading regimen going on. I think I just fell in among the wrong friends looking to fit in somewhere.
But I wonder how now much we've read in the past have become part of our thinking. It says in Hebrews 4:12, "For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart." If this is true for the Bible, I wonder if what we are exposed to has an equal effect, not only in what we read, but even in the movies, TV shows, in video games, etc, everything that we expose ourselves to.
Now as one who is trying to live a pure life in Christ, it is becoming more evident how quickly the mind can generate such random thoughts. I could be sitting down watching TV, flipping around the 500 channels on my satellite subscription and, whoa, what was that! Was she topless? Funny how there is a sudden interest to flip back to that station and check it out. And low and behold, there she is in all her glory (or all her glories, I should say)! And like there is a force that compels me to stay on that channel for a wee bit longer. Then I catch myself and ask, "what am I doing? Where are the kids? I hope my wife didn't see me", as I quickly change the channel.
I've had instances where I would be walking down the street looking straight ahead past some stores in a plaza or mall and for some reason my head snaps to the right and wouldn't you know it there is some girl in a skimpy outfit I didn't even notice before. Why at that particular moment did I turn my head to look? I didn't even know she was there. Have you ever had that happen?
Maybe my subconcious mind has been trained to look for evil all those years I ran from the Lord. Maybe I filled my head with too much base stuff that is not good for me. Maybe that's why I'm having trouble keeping clean thoughts, I dunno. But I've had some strange things like that happen to me.
wow what an awesome testimony
Leo,
I'm addressing this first because it relates to everything else. I wasn't talking about my girlfriend. I was continuing your analogy of relationship with God, to say that one can do things with someone else even if they are not designed to be in full devotion to them. For example, making God a part of mowing the lawn, masturbating, or reading a comic book.
If someone looks up to their father or mother, or to a rightous individual, is that making them into a false god? If by walking in the path of someone who is just, be it a real or fictitious individual, you are brought closer to God and what is just, then why does it matter if they are not God? Should we avoid emulating Mother Theresa's actions simply because she is not God? Should we for this reason not admire her actions or look up to her as a role model?
If you find spiritual inspiration and meaning, if it inspires you to be a better person, in the lives and teachings of the false gods of old, is it wrong to simply learn from them? Everything comes from something, evolves out of something else, or forms in reaction to something else. How does the reading or admiring of comic book characters become worship? You could have a poster on your wall of Iron Man, you could look to it every day and smile and say, "I want to be just as good a person as you." But until you say, "Thank you Iron Man for the wonders you have given me. I praise you and am blessed by you o awesome Iron Man. You bestow miracles upon me every day." until you go that far, how is it worship?
I really don't understand why the flesh-spirit dichotomy developed in some religions so strongly. It's certainly an idea that was fed by the terribly repressive ascetism of the medieval period. Is God everywhere or just in some places? If God is everywhere, doesn't that mean God can be found in the flesh too? Imo there's really nothing wrong with thinking of women, especially if it is a partner you are close to. But let's say instead that you choose to think of God. Maybe you think of the explosion of the created world out of nothing, or you focus on God's love, or on gratitude for the gift God is about to share with you. Or you can offer up your pleasure to God. And if maybe a woman does come into your head you can remind yourself that having women in the world is a blessing from God, and redirect your thoughts back to God that way, until you can let go of the thoughts about women during masturbation that bother you.
I used to listen to a lot of metal too. Primarily more positive bands like soad, although I also love Nightwish just because their operatic sound is so incredible, and also a lot of primus. I stopped listening to metal as much because of the way it made me feel. I would not say then that God is less present in the music, but that my subjective experience of the music was not affirming. I think probably more along the lines of what francis was saying, and why she stopped reading the horror books. But I do think that metal music can be spiritual. It's a more chthonic type of spirituality, something that gurgles up from the belly of the earth, primal. It can be very powerful and meaningful for some people.
That sounds like more of a less effective use of tools then a place where God cannot be included. I have biofeedback software at home, attached to my computer. It takes readings from my fingers. Some parts of it are like a game, where I move forward by regulating my body through breathing, meditation, becoming excited, etc. In so doing I gain greater self-awareness and discipline. I also use Second Life. In Second Life I've held events to raise awareness about the persecution in Poland, daily 20 minute interfaith meditation sits, a recent Lag B'Omer bonfire with some teachings about Shimon bar Yochai and the day. If anything, those are things that only help to bring holiness into my life, to affirm my awareness of God's presence. I'm also a big fan of rpg's and my favorites are the ones that incorporate world myths. I can see that as I play and it reminds me of God.
I used to play San Andreas a lot, but just like the music, it had a subjective negative effect on me to play so much. I would not say that God is less present in San Andreas. And I still do play it occasionally because I like the freedom to drive around and explore. I would suggest that in something like this, if there is a need to more explicitly connect it toGod, you could do the same things as I suggested with masturbation. Even with a violent game, you could say, "Dear God. We no longer sacrifice animals or people, but yet there is an aggressive part of me that has a need to still take part in these types of rituals. It is not okay to do that in a real space, so I dedicate this virtual offering to you." Violence is something I would generally rather stay away from, but still, why not include God in such a way? Some of us feel incomplete without it.
No, because it is not prayer. If it is better for you to direct your mind to God during a game, or to include God, there are ways to do so.
Dauer
I'm addressing this first because it relates to everything else. I wasn't talking about my girlfriend. I was continuing your analogy of relationship with God, to say that one can do things with someone else even if they are not designed to be in full devotion to them. For example, making God a part of mowing the lawn, masturbating, or reading a comic book.
If someone looks up to their father or mother, or to a rightous individual, is that making them into a false god? If by walking in the path of someone who is just, be it a real or fictitious individual, you are brought closer to God and what is just, then why does it matter if they are not God? Should we avoid emulating Mother Theresa's actions simply because she is not God? Should we for this reason not admire her actions or look up to her as a role model?
If you find spiritual inspiration and meaning, if it inspires you to be a better person, in the lives and teachings of the false gods of old, is it wrong to simply learn from them? Everything comes from something, evolves out of something else, or forms in reaction to something else. How does the reading or admiring of comic book characters become worship? You could have a poster on your wall of Iron Man, you could look to it every day and smile and say, "I want to be just as good a person as you." But until you say, "Thank you Iron Man for the wonders you have given me. I praise you and am blessed by you o awesome Iron Man. You bestow miracles upon me every day." until you go that far, how is it worship?
I really don't understand why the flesh-spirit dichotomy developed in some religions so strongly. It's certainly an idea that was fed by the terribly repressive ascetism of the medieval period. Is God everywhere or just in some places? If God is everywhere, doesn't that mean God can be found in the flesh too? Imo there's really nothing wrong with thinking of women, especially if it is a partner you are close to. But let's say instead that you choose to think of God. Maybe you think of the explosion of the created world out of nothing, or you focus on God's love, or on gratitude for the gift God is about to share with you. Or you can offer up your pleasure to God. And if maybe a woman does come into your head you can remind yourself that having women in the world is a blessing from God, and redirect your thoughts back to God that way, until you can let go of the thoughts about women during masturbation that bother you.
I used to listen to a lot of metal too. Primarily more positive bands like soad, although I also love Nightwish just because their operatic sound is so incredible, and also a lot of primus. I stopped listening to metal as much because of the way it made me feel. I would not say then that God is less present in the music, but that my subjective experience of the music was not affirming. I think probably more along the lines of what francis was saying, and why she stopped reading the horror books. But I do think that metal music can be spiritual. It's a more chthonic type of spirituality, something that gurgles up from the belly of the earth, primal. It can be very powerful and meaningful for some people.
That sounds like more of a less effective use of tools then a place where God cannot be included. I have biofeedback software at home, attached to my computer. It takes readings from my fingers. Some parts of it are like a game, where I move forward by regulating my body through breathing, meditation, becoming excited, etc. In so doing I gain greater self-awareness and discipline. I also use Second Life. In Second Life I've held events to raise awareness about the persecution in Poland, daily 20 minute interfaith meditation sits, a recent Lag B'Omer bonfire with some teachings about Shimon bar Yochai and the day. If anything, those are things that only help to bring holiness into my life, to affirm my awareness of God's presence. I'm also a big fan of rpg's and my favorites are the ones that incorporate world myths. I can see that as I play and it reminds me of God.
I used to play San Andreas a lot, but just like the music, it had a subjective negative effect on me to play so much. I would not say that God is less present in San Andreas. And I still do play it occasionally because I like the freedom to drive around and explore. I would suggest that in something like this, if there is a need to more explicitly connect it toGod, you could do the same things as I suggested with masturbation. Even with a violent game, you could say, "Dear God. We no longer sacrifice animals or people, but yet there is an aggressive part of me that has a need to still take part in these types of rituals. It is not okay to do that in a real space, so I dedicate this virtual offering to you." Violence is something I would generally rather stay away from, but still, why not include God in such a way? Some of us feel incomplete without it.
No, because it is not prayer. If it is better for you to direct your mind to God during a game, or to include God, there are ways to do so.
Dauer
LeoSalinas22
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hey, dondi, i am so sorry i took so long to respond. i have been backsliding lately.
very true indeed. he is correct, dondi. i have the very same problem except it instead of a horror book, it was porno. i have so much trouble focusing on God now because my thoughts wander immediately! i did this to myself. i have no one to blame.
very true, once again. i tend to see myself as a glass full of water and soda. the bad stuff is soda and knowledge of God is water. the soda just tastes so good but the more i add water, eventually there will be nothing left but cleanliness. well, right now there is more soda than there is water. its very frustrating.
dude, i am serious when i say that you are not alone. i have a very jealous wife and two boys! i do the same thing a little too often, though, by watching gorgeous women on tv. i have a friend who likes to call the tv "la caja de el diablo". it is spanish for "the devil's box." it is a very true name for the tv if you ask me. you see, that is what i am trying to explain on this thread. that there is a HUGE difference between the Spirit and the flesh. i also have the same problem in public areas like the mall or supermarket. the women are everywhere, man! there is no running from this world. i know what you mean that you suddenly look, randomly, i mean, and for some stupid reason a beautiful woman is standing right there of all places. its like a sixth sense or something. this is where the flesh takes over.
it is not strange at all, man. we have to taste evil, too, to know what is good. God knew that in all His Infinite Wisdom.
very true indeed. he is correct, dondi. i have the very same problem except it instead of a horror book, it was porno. i have so much trouble focusing on God now because my thoughts wander immediately! i did this to myself. i have no one to blame.
very true, once again. i tend to see myself as a glass full of water and soda. the bad stuff is soda and knowledge of God is water. the soda just tastes so good but the more i add water, eventually there will be nothing left but cleanliness. well, right now there is more soda than there is water. its very frustrating.
dude, i am serious when i say that you are not alone. i have a very jealous wife and two boys! i do the same thing a little too often, though, by watching gorgeous women on tv. i have a friend who likes to call the tv "la caja de el diablo". it is spanish for "the devil's box." it is a very true name for the tv if you ask me. you see, that is what i am trying to explain on this thread. that there is a HUGE difference between the Spirit and the flesh. i also have the same problem in public areas like the mall or supermarket. the women are everywhere, man! there is no running from this world. i know what you mean that you suddenly look, randomly, i mean, and for some stupid reason a beautiful woman is standing right there of all places. its like a sixth sense or something. this is where the flesh takes over.
it is not strange at all, man. we have to taste evil, too, to know what is good. God knew that in all His Infinite Wisdom.
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LeoSalinas22
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hi faith, sorry i took so long to respond.
i know what you mean by playing, listening, or experience less offending mediums but they just don't work for me. the flesh is very powerful if you know what i mean. doesn't mean i don't crucify myself everday though. it is a constant battle. sometimes you win, sometimes you lose.
i'll take it, faith. thank-you and God bless you.
i know what you mean by playing, listening, or experience less offending mediums but they just don't work for me. the flesh is very powerful if you know what i mean. doesn't mean i don't crucify myself everday though. it is a constant battle. sometimes you win, sometimes you lose.
anyways. Im not sure how serious your post was.. I was just trying to impart some wisdom I gathered in my walk. Take it or leave it
i'll take it, faith. thank-you and God bless you.
LeoSalinas22
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hey dauer,
sorry i took so long to respond to your post but i read it and am thinking of making a conclusion but only with your help. i need for you to answer a question. do you believe that man has a God-given spirit that connects us to God or are we all just "meat puppets"? if you are caught in a life or death situation, do you listen to your heart or do you listen to logic? i ask this because your responses are based more on fleshly indulgences and not with Spirit. i can't tell if this is a mentallity that jewish people accept or if it is a mankind mentallity. we can't give in to all of our fleshly desires, dauer. do you know what i mean? we have to listen to our heart as well, no? i hope i don't offend. just curious because i admire the jewish people a great deal. after all, they have the promise that was given to them to Abraham by God.
thanks. hope to hear from you soon.
sorry i took so long to respond to your post but i read it and am thinking of making a conclusion but only with your help. i need for you to answer a question. do you believe that man has a God-given spirit that connects us to God or are we all just "meat puppets"? if you are caught in a life or death situation, do you listen to your heart or do you listen to logic? i ask this because your responses are based more on fleshly indulgences and not with Spirit. i can't tell if this is a mentallity that jewish people accept or if it is a mankind mentallity. we can't give in to all of our fleshly desires, dauer. do you know what i mean? we have to listen to our heart as well, no? i hope i don't offend. just curious because i admire the jewish people a great deal. after all, they have the promise that was given to them to Abraham by God.
thanks. hope to hear from you soon.
Muslimwoman
Coexistence insha'Allah
Hi Leo
Interesting thread. May I give my 10 piastres worth.
Your original analogy of wanting your wife's attention - take that to the extreme you are talking about with G-d. What if your wife never watched mexican tv, came to work with you, never left your side, gave you all her attention 24/7, you couldn't go to the bathroom by yourself, she cleans your teeth for you, to the point where your wife has no life of her own. Would you enjoy this, is this the level of devotion you want from your wife? Or do you want your wife to enjoy her life, within reasonable moral bounds, whilst sharing quality time with you on a regular basis? While your wife is at the supermarket would you like to think she is buying your favourite food because she cares about you or because she feels obliged to do so?
Life is about choices, not exclusion. I love my playstation, however I am now careful about the games I choose. I love reading but I no longer read raunchy books that make me think of certain things. I love music but now I just download the songs I feel do not cross that line. I love watching tv but now I have blocked the porn channels, not because I used to watch them much but because sometimes if you are flicking through the channels and your eye catches something 'interesting' it is so easy to be drawn into watching it. So by blocking them I completely stopped that temptation.
I think of it like dieting - if I change the way I eat and think about food then I change the rest of my life. If I deny myself everything I like then I am unlikely to stick to it and will end up in a circle of self loathing and guilt because I am unable to stick to it, as well as the fact that my weight will yo-yo - same with my faith.
As for batman and idolatry, do people really 'worship' batman? Perhaps they like batman, collect the films, comics etc but do they think of batman as a god - hmmm sounds a bit far fetched to me. I adore my cat, I spend more time with my cat than I do praying, I am always buying him treats and toys, so am I worshiping my cat, is that idolatry? When I forget about G-d and start to pray to my cat or batman doll then yes that is idolatry and also mental illness.
Salaam
Interesting thread. May I give my 10 piastres worth.
Your original analogy of wanting your wife's attention - take that to the extreme you are talking about with G-d. What if your wife never watched mexican tv, came to work with you, never left your side, gave you all her attention 24/7, you couldn't go to the bathroom by yourself, she cleans your teeth for you, to the point where your wife has no life of her own. Would you enjoy this, is this the level of devotion you want from your wife? Or do you want your wife to enjoy her life, within reasonable moral bounds, whilst sharing quality time with you on a regular basis? While your wife is at the supermarket would you like to think she is buying your favourite food because she cares about you or because she feels obliged to do so?
Life is about choices, not exclusion. I love my playstation, however I am now careful about the games I choose. I love reading but I no longer read raunchy books that make me think of certain things. I love music but now I just download the songs I feel do not cross that line. I love watching tv but now I have blocked the porn channels, not because I used to watch them much but because sometimes if you are flicking through the channels and your eye catches something 'interesting' it is so easy to be drawn into watching it. So by blocking them I completely stopped that temptation.
I think of it like dieting - if I change the way I eat and think about food then I change the rest of my life. If I deny myself everything I like then I am unlikely to stick to it and will end up in a circle of self loathing and guilt because I am unable to stick to it, as well as the fact that my weight will yo-yo - same with my faith.
As for batman and idolatry, do people really 'worship' batman? Perhaps they like batman, collect the films, comics etc but do they think of batman as a god - hmmm sounds a bit far fetched to me. I adore my cat, I spend more time with my cat than I do praying, I am always buying him treats and toys, so am I worshiping my cat, is that idolatry? When I forget about G-d and start to pray to my cat or batman doll then yes that is idolatry and also mental illness.
Salaam
17th Angel
לבעוט את התחת ולקחת שמות
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I am not trying to be clever.... If I am not on the side of your god... how the freak am I cheating on him? I have no tie to your god.... I have no loyalty comitments so hence, I am not cheating on him..... Because I haven't said I swear an oath or something to that extent to your god..... To make my simple short life any more dull than it can possibly be, by changing my life for something that cannot even be proven is there.... I would be cheating yes.... I would be cheating myself.
My 2cents
Whether you acknowledge Him as your God or not.. He still is. He still created you and if He wanted to He could snuff out your existance like it was so much nothingness..but He wont because He loves you and He desires that you come to Him in repentence. He knows how we are. Mankind has been rebelling since day 1.
The logic of creation is easy if you stop and think about it.
You look at a painting.. look at the intricate brush strokes and fine detail and you know that the painting was created by someone.
Now look in the mirror and look at the intricate mechanisms of your body and the fine detail thats put into it. You come to the same conclusion.. you were created by someone.. someone that loves you.
Its that simple yet you would believe a lie. why?
LeoSalinas22
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hi muslimwoman,
For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.
you see? remission of sins. not the destruction of sin, or the end of sin, but the remission of sins. it means they go away, but will come back. it is so hard not to think of beautiful women. my sin is crouching just outside the door, but i must be a master to it. its just so difficult.
Ecclesiastes 7 It is better to go to the house of mourning, than to go to the house of feasting: for that is the end of all men; and the living will lay it to his heart. Sorrow is better than laughter: for by the sadness of the countenance the heart is made better. The heart of the wise is in the house of mourning; but the heart of fools is in the house of mirth.
you see, to me it means that only through making the flesh suffer, does one attain a better understanding of God. your heart is just made better when you suffer. sorry if i sound crazy. i know my wife constantly tells me that i have a demon in me. and she is a jw! you are right to do the "dieting" thing. perhaps, that is what i need to do more. reject the "self".
thanks.
by all means, don't mind me.
you make excellent points, woman, and i wish i knew more about islam to make a better response so hear it goes. ok, you have guys like enoch or Christ, right? i mean literally these guys "walked" with God. they did every single thing that was asked of them. no "ifs, ands, or buts", they just did it to please God. were they bothered by doing His Will? no. i would imagine, no, i know they enjoyed doing His Will. i know for a fact that if i would do every single thing God asked me to do, i wouldn't be bothered by it, but, how can i forget who i am? or how can i forget my sins? i just can't. they come back. just like a cancer that goes away but is still there. do you know what i mean? Christ Himself says:
For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.
you see? remission of sins. not the destruction of sin, or the end of sin, but the remission of sins. it means they go away, but will come back. it is so hard not to think of beautiful women. my sin is crouching just outside the door, but i must be a master to it. its just so difficult.
"life is about choices", you are absolutely right. we have free will. a blessing and a curse, all wrapped in one. i have gone on a diet on these so called "hobbies". eventually, sin consumes me again. you say that you have completely stopped temptation with the click of a button? wow. i wish it were that easy. i mean, is it me, or do women have less of a problem with temptation? naaah. its me. eve did eat the fruit, didn't she? but women are more calm when it comes to temptation. just a thought. i don't mean to be difficult, and i apreciate your response.
what do you think of this scripture, woman?
Ecclesiastes 7 It is better to go to the house of mourning, than to go to the house of feasting: for that is the end of all men; and the living will lay it to his heart. Sorrow is better than laughter: for by the sadness of the countenance the heart is made better. The heart of the wise is in the house of mourning; but the heart of fools is in the house of mirth.
you see, to me it means that only through making the flesh suffer, does one attain a better understanding of God. your heart is just made better when you suffer. sorry if i sound crazy. i know my wife constantly tells me that i have a demon in me. and she is a jw! you are right to do the "dieting" thing. perhaps, that is what i need to do more. reject the "self".
well, let me give you a website address and i don't know if this is right but if it isn't, it will just be censored. the address is superherohype.com. go to the boards there and listen to what some of these guys say. you don't have to officially say, "oh batman, i glorify your name into all of eternity." you glorify God by the way one lives no? you show Him how you live and you apply His Law into everyday life to show Him you love Him. when God is absent in one's heart, you are already rebelling. believe me, i know because i used to be like that. sometimes i still am. just my thought. sorry if i ramble. again, i wish i knew more about islam so we can be on the same level.
thanks.
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LeoSalinas22
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its ok faith, 17th has a spirit of slumber:
"(According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear) unto this day."
he has it even worse because he has knowledge of God and doesn't glorify Him. forgive him for he knows not what he does. all we can do is "sow in tears", faith. sow in tears. let God do the rest.
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17th Angel
לבעוט את התחת ולקחת שמות
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Sorry, I truly am, but this as far as I get on your post.... Because I will not accept this..... By your understanding you think he created me....
I -seriously-, and do mean seriously.... Hope none would "sow in tears" over myself.
LeoSalinas22
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too late, man. the seed is already sown because the knowledge of God is in you. God will take care of the rest.
Sorry Leo. Just got back to this thread.
As an agnostic I don't "believe" either. My sense of reality pivots around my understanding of God and sense of God in my life, but I also doubt all subjective experience, including that which relates to God. As I view the world, the division between spirit and body may very well be more-or-less illusory and the dichotomy between spirit and body damaging if anything by rendering the body less than spirit. I work with the soul myth myself, because it can be a helpful construct, but I don't assume for a minute I'm doing anything more than what Jung did with his archetypes and Freud did with the id, ego, and supergo. For my personal understanding of the world, you might see this recent thread, not the first part, but the two or three posts in where I respond to Dondi (posts 3-6):
http://www.comparative-religion.com/forum/beit-binah-virtual-intentional-community-7052.html
I take both into account. I don't think it's smart to rely too heavily on either. There's a balance between the two that can be quite helpful. Depending on what you're referring to as heart, on the important things they're often in agreement, or at least reach a position they can each be satisfied with. The heart speaks in generalities and logic then in the specific road to take. Logic is good sometimes for challenging heart when it goes in a dangerous direction, but in those case logic can often redirect heart to something more affirming and helpful. For example maybe at first I feel like I should act a certain way and then I think of what the result would be. My heart doesn't like the result any more than my logic does, and I do something else.
That's a straw man if I ever heard one. They're actually based entirely on spirit and affirming spirit. The difference between what I say and what you say is that I see spirit as affirming the physical world, and not denying it. It is then our role to find that affirmation of the holy and sacred in our daily lives, use that as a way to grow closer to God, instead of seeing it as something to push us away from God and create a greater distance between us. Everything is a part of God. If my ideas were truly as you say about flesh indulgence and not about God, then I wouldn't give suggestions for making God a part of it, growing closer to God through it and making God the focus, transforming it into sacred practice, prayer, worship. Rather, my suggestions are for ways to make God a part of all of the holy parts of life. These things I have suggested are not harmful to anyone, only affirming of the Divine.
Judaism's very this-worldly. It generally doesn't see God as a distant Other and often those things that some might consider mundane it sees as a way to get closer to God. It does traditionally understand the soul to be something distinct from body, but sometimes also that all of the physical world is a part of God. And when that is not the case, it still generally sees the whole physical world as filled with God. There are certain activities that have traditionally been understood as not being okay, masturbation for example, however as Judaism continues to evolve as it has all these centuries, that ceases to be the case for most of us. There are many who would simply allow things like masturbation without finding a way to then transform them into something sacred. I think that's holdoff from the enlightenment, which generally saw spirituality as less rational, and why then would someone want to incorporate more spirituality, bring God into something, where He isn't already? But then there are others like myself who fully embrace God and only wish to bring Him into every moment. That is why, for example, in Renewal there are people who would see all consensual adult sexual expression as a potential home for the Divine.
Well, we absolutely can't give into all of our desires. Sometimes it hurt other people. Like if someone says something to you that hurts and you just want to hurt them back in some way. It's also good to maintain a degree of discipline, but that discipline need not be about denying things, only structuring them and limiting over-indulgence, like for example you could save masturbation for only on Shabbat, the Sabbath, when it can be a special time for communion between yourself and God, to grow closer to Him. For a Jew that makes perfect sense, as there is a tradition for married couples to take some time for a little of that on Shabbat. We should enjoy all of life. It's a blessing from God. Couldn't the denial of joy in God's gift really be seen as a form of blaspheme?
Ah, I understand what you mean by heart now. I should read entire posts before responding. The difference here is that to me, heart is something found within and not determined by a book. Our sacred traditions may structure the way in which we give our sense of the Divine expression, but they don't determine the heart. And heart for me is God saying, "Find me everywhere, in everything that you do. Affirm me. I am here always."
I think heart for you probably says something similar, except for you in order to make God a part of something, your sense is that you need to exclude more of the other stuff.
There was an episode of Stargate: Atlantis were Col. Shepherd was stranded in this place where there was a whole community. They spent most of their time sitting in meditation, preparing for ascension. But in doing so, they missed out on life. Not only that but they saw the "negative" parts of htemselves as Other, and that created a monster that would attack their village. In the end, in order to ascend, they had to face the monster they'd created and own that it is a part of them too, not some separate evil. When they saw it as something separate from their sacred selves it became deadweight and even harmful. Once they were able to fully own and integrate it into their being, they were able to soar. The only reason it became an evil monster is because they labelled it as such.
Dauer
As an agnostic I don't "believe" either. My sense of reality pivots around my understanding of God and sense of God in my life, but I also doubt all subjective experience, including that which relates to God. As I view the world, the division between spirit and body may very well be more-or-less illusory and the dichotomy between spirit and body damaging if anything by rendering the body less than spirit. I work with the soul myth myself, because it can be a helpful construct, but I don't assume for a minute I'm doing anything more than what Jung did with his archetypes and Freud did with the id, ego, and supergo. For my personal understanding of the world, you might see this recent thread, not the first part, but the two or three posts in where I respond to Dondi (posts 3-6):
http://www.comparative-religion.com/forum/beit-binah-virtual-intentional-community-7052.html
I take both into account. I don't think it's smart to rely too heavily on either. There's a balance between the two that can be quite helpful. Depending on what you're referring to as heart, on the important things they're often in agreement, or at least reach a position they can each be satisfied with. The heart speaks in generalities and logic then in the specific road to take. Logic is good sometimes for challenging heart when it goes in a dangerous direction, but in those case logic can often redirect heart to something more affirming and helpful. For example maybe at first I feel like I should act a certain way and then I think of what the result would be. My heart doesn't like the result any more than my logic does, and I do something else.
That's a straw man if I ever heard one. They're actually based entirely on spirit and affirming spirit. The difference between what I say and what you say is that I see spirit as affirming the physical world, and not denying it. It is then our role to find that affirmation of the holy and sacred in our daily lives, use that as a way to grow closer to God, instead of seeing it as something to push us away from God and create a greater distance between us. Everything is a part of God. If my ideas were truly as you say about flesh indulgence and not about God, then I wouldn't give suggestions for making God a part of it, growing closer to God through it and making God the focus, transforming it into sacred practice, prayer, worship. Rather, my suggestions are for ways to make God a part of all of the holy parts of life. These things I have suggested are not harmful to anyone, only affirming of the Divine.
Judaism's very this-worldly. It generally doesn't see God as a distant Other and often those things that some might consider mundane it sees as a way to get closer to God. It does traditionally understand the soul to be something distinct from body, but sometimes also that all of the physical world is a part of God. And when that is not the case, it still generally sees the whole physical world as filled with God. There are certain activities that have traditionally been understood as not being okay, masturbation for example, however as Judaism continues to evolve as it has all these centuries, that ceases to be the case for most of us. There are many who would simply allow things like masturbation without finding a way to then transform them into something sacred. I think that's holdoff from the enlightenment, which generally saw spirituality as less rational, and why then would someone want to incorporate more spirituality, bring God into something, where He isn't already? But then there are others like myself who fully embrace God and only wish to bring Him into every moment. That is why, for example, in Renewal there are people who would see all consensual adult sexual expression as a potential home for the Divine.
Well, we absolutely can't give into all of our desires. Sometimes it hurt other people. Like if someone says something to you that hurts and you just want to hurt them back in some way. It's also good to maintain a degree of discipline, but that discipline need not be about denying things, only structuring them and limiting over-indulgence, like for example you could save masturbation for only on Shabbat, the Sabbath, when it can be a special time for communion between yourself and God, to grow closer to Him. For a Jew that makes perfect sense, as there is a tradition for married couples to take some time for a little of that on Shabbat. We should enjoy all of life. It's a blessing from God. Couldn't the denial of joy in God's gift really be seen as a form of blaspheme?
Ah, I understand what you mean by heart now. I should read entire posts before responding.
The difference here is that to me, heart is something found within and not determined by a book. Our sacred traditions may structure the way in which we give our sense of the Divine expression, but they don't determine the heart. And heart for me is God saying, "Find me everywhere, in everything that you do. Affirm me. I am here always."I think heart for you probably says something similar, except for you in order to make God a part of something, your sense is that you need to exclude more of the other stuff.
There was an episode of Stargate: Atlantis were Col. Shepherd was stranded in this place where there was a whole community. They spent most of their time sitting in meditation, preparing for ascension. But in doing so, they missed out on life. Not only that but they saw the "negative" parts of htemselves as Other, and that created a monster that would attack their village. In the end, in order to ascend, they had to face the monster they'd created and own that it is a part of them too, not some separate evil. When they saw it as something separate from their sacred selves it became deadweight and even harmful. Once they were able to fully own and integrate it into their being, they were able to soar. The only reason it became an evil monster is because they labelled it as such.
Dauer
Ciel
in essence
Dauer,
If I were to quote from your posts on this thread....... I would wish to quote and requote them all....You excel...... I agree.
The divine loves when love is the ascendant key.
Peace - c -
If I were to quote from your posts on this thread....... I would wish to quote and requote them all....You excel...... I agree.
The divine loves when love is the ascendant key.
Peace - c -
LeoSalinas22
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ok, dauer, i am confused. i read a bit of your post hyperlink. just answer this question. do you know, without a doubt in the fiber of your entire being, if God exists? and if you KNOW He exists, do you love Him, with all your heart, mind, and soul? just need to know so that i can better understand your responses. please bear with me for i am still trying to be on your level of intelligience. thanks. hope to hear from you soon.