Ignoring Vaccines

wil said:
For the greater good...

Exactly.

If I were to die from a vaccine, if I were to be one of the casualties of a vaccine that saved millions... I would have no issues.

If I died testing a cars self driving mode that would eventually lead to reducing the thousands of hiway deaths, I would be pleased.

If I were a "victim" in any of the medical trials I have agreed to yet there was progress to save others, I would die happy.
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So if a vaccine is forced on you, and your doctor tells you that it will kill you, you will gladly die.

My family would be devastated. They depend on me. But I'm sure people like you would comfort them and pay their bills. You could explain to my children that I died for the "greater good", even though it could have easily been prevented.
 
TheLightWithin said:
Are you literally saying that to me!:mad:
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Yes.

"I guess after careful consideration, people must truly prefer to face the ravages of known diseases over the minuscule risks posed by most vaccines."

That is a tad ignorant. Nobody prefers diseases to be spread all over. But most of us prefer common sense and demand honesty from our leaders, the makers of these vaccines, and from the media. We also want freedom to choose our own health choices. Let me give you a true example. In my family the Covid vaccine caused some of us to go blind. Thankfully most have recovered, but not all. So I didn't get the Covid vaccine. I didn't see the point because I recently had Covid. The president of our company tried forcing the vaccine on us. My coworkers threatened to walk out, so the order was rescinded.

I don't want diseases to ravage our country. I just don't want to go blind to make you feel safe. It's that simple.
 
moralorel said:
So if a vaccine is forced on you, and your doctor tells you that it will kill you, you will gladly die.
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I have not said that. All vaccines have risk, all medications have risks, many foods have risks.

'Will kill me? I would not take it...but I would insure I don't get and spread the bug that is known to kill others.

'Might kill me'? That is the risk we all take for the benefit of those around us....

Something most of us do every day when we get in an automobile....just to go to the store for cigarettes.
 
wil said:
I have not said that. All vaccines have risk, all medications have risks, many foods have risks.

'Will kill me? I would not take it...but I would insure I don't get and spread the bug that is known to kill others.

'Might kill me'? That is the risk we all take for the benefit of those around us....

Something most of us do every day when we get in an automobile....just to go to the store for cigarettes.
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So if there is a good chance it will kill you or permanently harm you (such as blindness), you'll do it for the greater good? At what point does your scale tip?
 
moralorel said:
So if there is a good chance it will kill you or permanently harm you (such as blindness), you'll do it for the greater good? At what point does your scale tip?
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Idk if you are aware of my history...but i died in 2018....all borrowed time for me...I am OK with being a guinea pig for medical progress now.
 
Faithfulservant said:
Perceived? Keep your head in the sand if you want. I would tell you to go check out VAERS website but its currently down

This website is being modified to comply with President Trump’s Executive Orders.
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I cannot comment with what I think of any of trumps anything without making this thread more political than it already is.
 
Regarding factual information as wil stated, I do not know how this will land but here is something addressing something referenced here earlier

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www.aao.org

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factcheck.afp.com

Studies tell us things anecdotal evidence does not, and you can make more reliable generalizations from more broadly collected data than you can from anecdotal evidence, previously shared on this thread.

Aside from wanting to share something factual, I'm going to unfollow this thread for obvious reasons.
 
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wil said:
Idk if you are aware of my history...but i died in 2018....all borrowed time for me...I am OK with being a guinea pig for medical progress now.
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You scare me Wil. It's like you don't care to live for anything.
 
moralorel said:
You scare me Wil. It's like you don't care to live for anything.
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I have issues which could manifest at anytime. It ain't as eminent as it was but it changes your thinking. I have lived a good life and will enjoy as much of the rest of it as I can...but my concern is no longer for me....but for all of those that follow.
 
wil said:
I have issues which could manifest at anytime. It ain't as eminent as it was but it changes your thinking. I have lived a good life and will enjoy as much of the rest of it as I can...but my concern is no longer for me....but for all of those that follow.
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Just wanted to make sure you're ok.

My biggest fear is that "those that follow" won't have freedom. Freedom is the most important thing to me and it trumps other people's feelings, religious beliefs, political beliefs, faith in pharmaceutical companies, faith in the media, and faith in politicians.
 
wil said:
Largest outbreaks in 3.decades, a currently rare death (which used to be much more common)...the cost of this kind of freedom..
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Yet the outbreak isn't very big at all. The local government already has it in hand. Haven't even needed state nor federal aid.

"There is only one decision you need to make: You are either working at your Freedom or you are accepting your bondage."
-Robert Adams-

I will never accept bondage.

"The people never give up their liberties but under some delusion."
-Edmund Burke-

The delusion being that the dishonest are acting in our best interest.
 
moralorel said:
So if there is a good chance it will kill you or permanently harm you (such as blindness), you'll do it for the greater good? At what point does your scale tip?
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Just to point out there isn't 'a good chance' ... statistically there's 'a small chance'.

In any medical procedure we have to evaluate the risk/benefits, and when dealing with populations, yes, the greater good wins every time.

There is every chance that the govts over-react to pandemics, but if they waited until people were dying faster than the bodies could be cleared away, then it would be a different story and those who choose not to immunise would find themselves pariah in their own communities.

There is every indication that western governments were all too slow to react, because of underlying libertarian political principles (as was the case in the UK), and so the early death rates were higher then they need have been. In the UK's case there was an exercise which highlighted shortcomings in the case of a pandemic, but of course nothing was done.

Asian and Far Eastern countries generally fare better because they have a stronger social conscience, so they mask up as a matter of good manners whenever they're ill, whereas we in the west bleat on about 'civil liberties' because we're generally under the misguided assumption that the state is there for my benefit and is out of order when it acts in ways contrary to my perceived benefit.

+++

There will invariably always be the risk of side-effects, known and unknown. The job is to ensure Big Pharma is not 'getting away with murder', literally as well as figuratively. While people might be naive in trusting 'the authorities', the tendency for 'conspiracy theories' to emerge in regard to almost any contentious scenario, actually does more harm than good, as the germ of truth tends to get swamped in an outpouring of nonsense ... and 'empty vessels make the most noise'.
 
Thomas said:
Just to point out there isn't 'a good chance' ... statistically there's 'a small chance'.

In any medical procedure we have to evaluate the risk/benefits, and when dealing with populations, yes, the greater good wins every time.

There is every chance that the govts over-react to pandemics, but if they waited until people were dying faster than the bodies could be cleared away, then it would be a different story and those who choose not to immunise would find themselves pariah in their own communities.

There is every indication that western governments were all too slow to react, because of underlying libertarian political principles (as was the case in the UK), and so the early death rates were higher then they need have been. In the UK's case there was an exercise which highlighted shortcomings in the case of a pandemic, but of course nothing was done.

Asian and Far Eastern countries generally fare better because they have a stronger social conscience, so they mask up as a matter of good manners whenever they're ill, whereas we in the west bleat on about 'civil liberties' because we're generally under the misguided assumption that the state is there for my benefit and is out of order when it acts in ways contrary to my perceived benefit.

+++

There will invariably always be the risk of side-effects, known and unknown. The job is to ensure Big Pharma is not 'getting away with murder', literally as well as figuratively. While people might be naive in trusting 'the authorities', the tendency for 'conspiracy theories' to emerge in regard to almost any contentious scenario, actually does more harm than good, as the germ of truth tends to get swamped in an outpouring of nonsense ... and 'empty vessels make the most noise'.
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I assume your answer is pertaining to the public as a whole. I'm speaking about individual cases.

As with any medications, sometimes an individual will have dangerous reactions to a vaccine. It is often hereditary. The good news is that we can often isolate the ingredient causing the problem. A patient can then try a different medication and hopefully a vaccine from a different manufacturer.

In my personal case family members on my father's side of the family were going blind from the Covid vaccine. Aside from the usual fatigue, swelling, etc side-effects of the vaccine, my mother's side was fine. There was a high chance I could go blind. Not a low chance. My doctor agreed.
 
muhammad_isa said:
What "outbreak" are you both referring to?
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There was an outbreak of measles in Texas. Wil just shared an article about it. It is one of the largest outbreaks in a long time. But it was still small enough and contained to the point that only the local authorities had to get involved. It made national headlines.
 
moralorel said:
There was an outbreak of measles in Texas. Wil just shared an article about it. It is one of the largest outbreaks in a long time. But it was still small enough and contained to the point that only the local authorities had to get involved. It made national headlines.
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I thought that that was what you were referring to, but wasn't sure..
Most of my children were not immunized, as I wasn't in favour when I was younger.
My wife was a bit concerned, but went along with it.

I'm not sure how I feel about it these days, as a Grandad.
..but I don't get involved .. they make their own choices. :)
 
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