Who created God?

Tony Bristow-Stagg said:
This is because the journey of this life is not about self. There are certain aspects where we need to be self serving, but this is only in order to be a servant to all humanity, starting with family, friends and community.

In a world where good is our choice, no one will be without the basic necessities of life, shelter, water, food and work.

In a world where self serving goals are pursued, well that world is now.
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That is noble certainly but i love of the self is the highest and most important love, imo. If we cannot love the self, we cannot believe in loving others also. Religious and ascetic paths often proclaim devotion to others but practice mostly on getting themselves closer to their God via conversion of others to their faith rather than genuinely aiding by solution of others' problems.

Self-hate and depression are rampant in the world now, among those judging themselves either holy, carnal or apathetic. Loving the self doesn't mean automatically denying love of others. That is narcissism, not self-love. Self-love, for me at least, means finding reasons, in whatever form, to keep the self being in this reality regardless of the forms it changes into.i.e.learning to accept what is being regardless of what is being.

That does not necessarily always mean passive acceptance. We are free to actively change the forms we see in our conscious reality. But when I have acted based on resisting the fear/anger that manifest via various sources, it has only worsened the situation. Do not flee the source of those emotions the brain cannot stand. Nor seek to destroy it. That is the brain's animal flight-or-fight response. Retrain it to face those emotions within and we can face the causes of them without running from or attacking them.

Before we can apply it externally though, we have to manage it internally. That is what the meditative path means for me at least. That is what enjoying material pleasures like candy and streaming content when they are available mean for me without separation from what is being when they are not. When we can find ways to change the darkness of our reality, we may find ways to teach others the same. It is one thing to teach another your faith as a path to solace from the pain. Is it truly another to offer them cost-free paths to material pleasures as another path?

We are all animals in my mind. My default reaction to threats, present or imagined is always flight-or-fight. The choice is usually based of comparison of mental/physical strength. But we are possibly the only animals able to mentally posit a different reality than the presently experienced one and find ways to realize it in now. Imagination is both curse and blessing. I know when I am running, destroying or facing forms I dislike in the present. Facing without automatic fight/flight is what self love means for me anyway.

Another might see self love differently. That is fine too. I should only care about changing my reality. Changing another's, when it is against their will, is something I interpret as fighting. Leaving another's field of awareness when they want me to stay because I dislike what they are being is running away. There is no pure/perfect absolute path. Just like 'change is the only constant', 'the only absolute is relativity' is another truth I see of the universe we share. As those statements themselves indicate, we cannot get rid of any complement or opposite fully to manifest the other. Purity is an illusion. Accepting all means accepting darkness too along with light.
 
Vasu Devan said:
That is noble certainly but i love of the self is the highest and most important love, imo. If we cannot love the self, we cannot believe in loving others also.
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This is the self we have to find. This love finds no hate, it finds opportunities for improvement, this self acknowledges what is right between what is wrong, it transcends the animal, we choose forgiveness over retribution, we choose honesty over dishonesty, we choose righteousness over tyranny..etc

Regards Tony
 
Tony Bristow-Stagg said:
This is the self we have to find. This love finds no hate, it finds opportunities for improvement, this self acknowledges what is right between what is wrong, it transcends the animal, we choose forgiveness over retribution, we choose honesty over dishonesty, we choose righteousness over tyranny..etc

Regards Tony
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We are free to try to be anything we think we can be. Conflict comes when we think others have to as well. We all share relative perspectives and meanings of a shared reality. The perceptions I have are different from another's and that is true for all of us. When I start thinking that the other beings that come into my awareness have to follow the truths that mean something to me, then I am trying to force the universe to become what I think it should mean at the cost of what others think their universe should mean. That is the breeding ground for hate and fear that corrupts love in current reality. There is no way to completely avoid that(purity is illusion) because of the nature of this reality but I seek a nonviolent path the most I can.
 
Tony Bristow-Stagg said:
This is the self we have to find. This love finds no hate, it finds opportunities for improvement, this self acknowledges what is right between what is wrong, it transcends the animal, we choose forgiveness over retribution, we choose honesty over dishonesty, we choose righteousness over tyranny..etc.
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That 'self' is not the true representative of humanity. Common humanity is greed, acquire by whatever means and use. Exceptions hardly matter.
 
Aupmanyav said:
That 'self' is not the true representative of humanity. Common humanity is greed, acquire by whatever means and use. Exceptions hardly matter.
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Jesus invited us to follow him to be true representatives of a moral and virtuous life, and I see this is what we are now learning.

Unfortunately humanity always seems to have to reach rock bottom, before they finally see that our true potential is based in Love,virtues and morality.

The life of Abdu’l-Baha was gifted as such an example, how to be a true servant, which is also the true Christian, the true Muslim, the true Hindu, etc, those that choose to give instead of take, to treat others as they would have others treat them.

Regards Tony
 
Vasu Devan said:
We are free to try to be anything we think we can be. Conflict comes when we think others have to as well. We all share relative perspectives and meanings of a shared reality. The perceptions I have are different from another's and that is true for all of us. When I start thinking that the other beings that come into my awareness have to follow the truths that mean something to me, then I am trying to force the universe to become what I think it should mean at the cost of what others think their universe should mean. That is the breeding ground for hate and fear that corrupts love in current reality. There is no way to completely avoid that(purity is illusion) because of the nature of this reality but I seek a nonviolent path the most I can.
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Fullly agree we live in our own relative reality, a reality we each share with all humanity. I think the universe is showing us we can be the better version of self, it becomes self evident that good will always win over evil intent.

(I personally see humanity as more than earth bound souls, from what I understand in the Baha'i Writings, humanity is not restricted to only this planet)

Unity in diversity takes on a whole new prospect in the future, shame, and much sadness on us for not having already united our global humanity. When we unite, we will open doors to greater knowledge and sciences.

All the best, Regards Tony
 
Tony Bristow-Stagg said:
The life of Abdu’l-Baha was gifted as such an example, how to be a true servant, which is also the true Christian, the true Muslim, the true Hindu, etc, those that choose to give instead of take, to treat others as they would have others treat them.
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A true Hindu does not accept fakes. We recognize the wolf which comes in sheep's clothing.
Tony Bristow-Stagg said:
.. humanity is not restricted to only this planet.
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More humbug.
 
muhammad_isa said:
.. and the Qur'an also states that we "journey from plane to plane".
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Interesting passage I have stumbled over before

84:19
لَتَرْكَبُنَّ طَبَقًا عَن طَبَقٍ
> Pickthall: "That ye shall journey on from plane to plane."
> Yusuf Ali: "Ye shall surely travel from stage to stage."
> Shakir: "That you shall most certainly enter one state after another."
> Muhammad Sarwar: "That you will certainly pass through one stage after another."
> Talal Itani: "You will mount stage by stage."
> Yusuf Ali in context: "(15) So I do call to witness the ruddy glow of Sunset; (16) The Night and its Homing; (17) And the Moon in her fullness: (18) Ye shall surely travel from stage to stage. (19)"

Most scholars interpreted (19) as a spiritual journey. But is it?
iBrian said:
So we are observing just one level of reality, and when we die there is the potential to transcend to higher levels of reality where the same but different principle is repeated. I think a few traditions argue that point
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How do you interprete the passage of the Quran?
 
talib-al-kalim said:
How do you interprete the passage of the Quran?
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I wouldn't even begin to try, I don't have the knowledge or authority. :)

It would be tempting to apply a modern interpretation like the post I made above, but I've been reading a lot about the origins of ancients mythologies, and it's clear that spiritual journeys are a tradition that goes back deep into prehistory, with their own symbols and meaning.

I would rather admit I don't know, but would like to learn more, rather than jump too quickly to conclusions. :)
 
iBrian said:
I wouldn't even begin to try, I don't have the knowledge or authority. :)

It would be tempting to apply a modern interpretation like the post I made above, but I've been reading a lot about the origins of ancients mythologies, and it's clear that spiritual journeys are a tradition that goes back deep into prehistory, with their own symbols and meaning.

I would rather admit I don't know, but would like to learn more, rather than jump too quickly to conclusions. :)
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I actually thought to ask @muhammad_isa but you are welcome
 
muhammad_isa said:
My concept of God is of a non-physical phenomena [ spiritual ] that is eternal.
An eternal phenomena cannot be created, as it just "is". :)
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Idk how i missed this thread... me thinks we agree? I am putting your phenomena as the entanglement of the TOE! And we might be getting closer with the right series of prompts in the ai labyrinth.

But then the question becomes....when we grok the answer ... will we still exist...will we still care?

Wil we real eyes we have always been we, I and I, irie?
 
Tony Bristow-Stagg said:
Unfortunately humanity always seems to have to reach rock bottom, before they finally see that our true potential is based in Love,virtues and morality.
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When you say humanity it doesn't sound like you are referring to one individual or community but all of us.

You say it as if we (humanity) has reached rock bottom and learned some lesson and then went back to rock bottom, repeatedly and risen again....numerous times?
 
wil said:
When you say humanity it doesn't sound like you are referring to one individual or community but all of us.

You say it as if we (humanity) has reached rock bottom and learned some lesson and then went back to rock bottom, repeatedly and risen again....numerous times?
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Yes, as the material worlds are all part of a cyclic renewal and religion part of this world.

Faiths are born (Spring), grow and mature (Summer), start to decline (Autumn) and then decay from the original (Winter)

There are many great YouTube videos where people who are not Baha'is offer this is also how civilisation rises and falls, they rise in moral and virtues and decline in material pursuits there are many knowledgeable economists that have posted the prediction of the fall of this age.

Metephors of the Spiritual can always be given from the material, as the material world is but a construct of the Spiritual reality.

Baha'u'llah has explained this in detail in the Kitab-i-iqan and Shoghi Effendi (Grandson), a great writer, has explained it in great detail in "The World.Order of Baha'u'llah".

"Religion," writes Bahá'u'lláh, "is the greatest of all means for the establishment of order in the world and for the peaceful contentment of all that dwell therein. The weakening of the pillars of religion hath strengthened the hands of the ignorant and made them bold and arrogant. Verily I say, whatsoever hath lowered the lofty station of religion hath increased the waywardness of the wicked, and the result cannot be but anarchy." "Religion," He, in another Tablet, has stated, "is a radiant light and an impregnable stronghold for the protection and welfare of the peoples of the world, for the fear of God impelleth man to hold fast to that which is good, and shun all evil. Should the lamp of religion be obscured, chaos and confusion will ensue, and the lights of fairness, of justice, of tranquillity and peace cease to shine." "Know thou," He, in yet another connection, has written, "that they who are truly wise have likened the world unto the human temple. As the body of man needeth a garment to clothe it, so the body of mankind must needs be adorned with the mantle of justice and wisdom. Its robe is the Revelation vouchsafed unto it by God."

No wonder, therefore, that when, as a result of human perversity, the light of religion is quenched in men's hearts, and the divinely appointed Robe, designed to adorn the human temple, is deliberately discarded, a deplorable decline in the fortunes of humanity immediately sets in, bringing in its wake all the evils which a wayward soul is capable of revealing. The perversion of human nature, the degradation of human conduct, the corruption and dissolution of human institutions, reveal themselves, under such circumstances, in their worst and most revolting aspects. Human character is debased, confidence is shaken, the nerves of discipline are relaxed, the voice of human conscience is stilled, the sense of decency and shame is obscured, conceptions of duty, of solidarity, of reciprocity and loyalty are distorted, and the very feeling of peacefulness, of joy and of hope is gradually extinguished...."

This is the link to the section I have taken the above quote from and it contains a lot more detail.


Regards Tony
 
Vasu Devan said:
So then, how about instead of setting plans to act now to achieve a future ideal, we do what we want in the now genuinely? Not because we think we should but really don't want and do what we want now without letting fear of future repercussions of loss/gain decide out action. Just realize in the now that whatever the uncertain future may form as, we can deal with it when it becomes the now.
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Not knowing includes not only the truth of suffering, decay, it's cause, it's ending, but also the path of deeds leading to it's end.
The unconditioned isn't reached without conditions, not knowing if what to to, beings wander on, even getting aware of the foolish circle. Neither by non-action, not by wrong action, can all actions be overcome, but by the right deeds, the Noble Path, good Brahman.

And what is the Noble eightfold path? Right view, right resolve, right speech, right deeds, right lifelihood, right effort, right mindfulness, right conncentration.

Neither do common being remember the past well, not see cause and effect right, nor know the effects of deeds. Neither remember the paths long long gone, nor where to go, do beings wander on, according ti their actions, up and down in the three realms of existance.
 
Dhammañāṇa Bhikkhu said:
Not knowing includes not only the truth of suffering, decay, it's cause, it's ending, but also the path of deeds leading to it's end.
The unconditioned isn't reached without conditions, not knowing if what to to, beings wander on, even getting aware of the foolish circle. Neither by non-action, not by wrong action, can all actions be overcome, but by the right deeds, the Noble Path, good Brahman.

And what is the Noble eightfold path? Right view, right resolve, right speech, right deeds, right lifelihood, right effort, right mindfulness, right conncentration.

Neither do common being remember the past well, not see cause and effect right, nor know the effects of deeds. Neither remember the paths long long gone, nor where to go, do beings wander on, according ti their actions, up and down in the three realms of existance.
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Right is always such a subjective word. Relative word too. What one sees as right, another might see as wrong. Belief is stronger than truth. We may learn facts with truth but belief can overcome truth because any truth needs to be believed first. So that belief can exist opposite to truth even in the presence of overwhelming opposing proof.

Our lives determine what we see as right/wrong belief and action. How much choice do we have in what we can believe? We certainly can't change belief at will. Try it now. You can't change key beliefs of the eightfold path. It changes as we experience our life. The Great Atman loves all equally. It does not choose some to cut out or others to persist.

Jesus, Mohammed, Buddha all I'm sure started from a teaching of unconditional love as guide for living. Then, followers and teachers corrupted it as their teachings spread. And that is something the brain of Man will always do. Pure living is illusion. For purity to exist, so must impurity. Better to coexist with the dark than claim it has no right to existence, as a personal belief.

So much maya but even if it IS illusion, it is the illusion the world follows in various ways now.
 
Faithfulservant said:
I love when athiests quote scripture 😊
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I have the right to quote scriptures, I am a strong atheist and also a staunch Hindu. Atheism is 3,000 years old in Hinduism.
Even RigVeda's hymn (Generally known as the Hindu Creation hymn) says:
"The Gods are later than this world's production. Who knows then whence it first came into being?"
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Rig Veda: Rig-Veda, Book 10: HYMN CXXIX. Creation. | Sacred Texts Archive

Hinduism: 1. THEN was not non-existent nor existent: there was no realm of air, no sky beyond it.
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