What does "Satan" mean to you exactly?

Penguin

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Has he tried to ruin your faith? Although Jesus delivered a massive blow to Satan when he was on the cross for us does Satan still try to influence your life today?

I don't personally believe in a physical little red man, a monster with 2 horns, jumping around prodding people with his pitch fork and growling at them. Most Christians I speak to also agree, although one did think Satan lived at the bottom of his garden in a compost heap!:eek:

However, I do believe in a "negative influence" that has to exist. Good and evil must obviously co-exist, you can't have one without the other.
My feelings on evil/satan is that we all have "his" potential in us, some succumb to it and others fight it hard with faith and stand firm. If we give in to sin and this negative influence then we have given in to "Satan"
 
Hi Penguin —

In traditional Christianity the devil is a generic name commonly given to the fallen angels, demon is another. With the article (Gk: ho) it denotes Satan, or Lucifer, as their chief (cf 25:41 "the Devil and his angels").

St. Gregory says of the word angel, "the designation of an office, not of a nature". Devil derives from the Greek verb diaballein, "to traduce", and meant a slanderer, or accuser, and in this sense it is applied to him of whom it is written "the accuser [ho kategoros] of our brethren is cast forth, who accused them before our God day and night" (Apocalypse 12:10). It thus accords with the Hebrew name Satan which signifies an adversary, or an accuser.

In Catholic doctrine, the Fourth Lateran Council declared "the Devil and the other demons were created by God good in their nature but they by themselves have made themselves evil."

So the Devil and the other demons are, or rather were, spiritual or angelic creatures, created by God, but whom became corrupt — evil — by their own act.

The suggestion that Adam and Eve sinned by the suggestion of the Devil is common, but not given. The serpent of Scripture is not identified with the Hebrew Satan, and signifies a tendency more than a person.

If there had been no serpent, no tempter in the Garden, then we would be obliged to believe that man was not made good in his nature, and his fall was thus an inevitability. The view that human nature, from the outset, cannot help itself but sin, implies that sin is endemic to human nature, and if such was the case then the human cannot harbour any hope of union with the Divine as a human being, but would require we undergo a fundamental change of nature, that we cease to be human, to enter paradise.

Christianity upholds the idea of an external cause and source of evil because it upholds the essential dignity of the human as a creature made in the divine image and likeness.

The devil is not there, however, for us to use as an excuse. Indeed it is never acceptable to say "the devil made me do it". I would argue with Alex that if that is his view of Christian doctrine (well, mine at least), he's got it wrong. If only it were that easy!

The poet and artist David Jones said this:
"A man can not only smell roses (some beasts may do that, for lavender is said to be appreciated in the Lion House) but he can and does and ought to pluck roses and he can predicate of roses such and such. He can make a signum of roses. He can make attar of roses. He can garland them and make anathemata of them (anathemata: something consecrated to divine use). Which is, presumably, the kind of thing he is meant to do. Anyway, there's no one else can do it. Angels can't nor can the beasts. No wonder then that Theology regards the body as a unique good. Without body: without sacrament. Angels only: no sacrament. Beasts only: no sacrament. Man: sacrament at every turn and all levels of the 'profane' and 'sacred', in the trivial and in the profound, no escape from sacrament." (Epoch and Artist, p 166-167)

This ability to see things beyond their extrinsic materiality is what sets us apart from all nature ... however, it can go wrong, for it necessarily sees the 'wrong' use of things as well as the 'right' ... and I would argue it is this, the perception of how man might wrongly use his gifts for his own ends, that led the Primordial Couple into sin.

Assuming that angels fell before man, then there is no doubt that some presence was there to say "go on, you know you want to!"

Thomas
(Some might prefer a more Greek Orthodox approach to the idea. Although they do not discount the devil, demons, fallen angels, etc., they tend to a more abstract and psychological view. I shall post on this separately.)
 
[Resister].
opposition


The Scriptures indicate that the creature known as Satan did not always have that name.

Rather, this descriptive name was given to him because of his taking a course of opposition and resistance to God.
 
'he' is the adversary and a figment of our fertile imagination and something we use to blame.

Don't believe in no little critter other than the comic rendition with one on one shoulder and one on the other...cheat, no be honest...lie, no tell the truth...throw it, no don't... except that goes on in our head...our making decisons and when we made the bad one quoting Geraldine...

The devil made me do it!

Of all the things I gave up to follow my path, I miss blame the most.
 
Exactly my point... :) Pointing fingers and passing the buck is manmade, and very common and very popular... We are responsible for our own actions.... And may YHWH forgive us for our failures..... And may we be able to be men and admit faults, look for the solution and fix it... And forgive, ourselves...
 
Satan lived up to his title "Devil," meaning "Slanderer," which title he deserved for having slandered Jehovah God in the garden of Eden.
 
Whoa, guys! The blame argument misses the point entirely!

If you read the Fall in Genesis, you'll see that Adam blamed Eve, Eve blamed the serpent, etc., but it didn't wash, so where you get the idea of using the devil to shift the blame, I don't know ...

Certainly the scribes of Scripture were way ahead of you on that one, and were having none of it. Passing the buck was ruled out.

So this blame thing is a non-starter.

We are responsible for our own actions....
And Scripture says nothing less. That's why we face judgement.

And may YHWH forgive us for our failures...
But if evil is part of our nature, as you argue, then we cannot be held at fault for being true to our nature, can we? That's like God blaming us for being imperfect, even though He made us imperfect.

... And may we be able to be men and admit faults, look for the solution and fix it... And forgive, ourselves...
You're assuming there are solutions. If evil is endemic to our nature, there is no solution.

Scripture says there are, but then it has some very certain things to say about human nature, basically, that human nature is good, and was created without evil.

So evil is not endemic to human nature, but extrinsic to it, and something to be resisted.

That we fail to resist is nobody's fault but our own ... and Scripture says nothing more than that.

This 'blame' thing is just poor theology.

Thomas
 
I never once said evil. :)

Passing the buck I am not talking about the bible at all... I am speaking of real life :) We have a tendancy to pass the blame in this world (again not speaking about the bible! lol) And I guess in the story, of adam and eve it is a perfect example of my point... We instantly look for others to blame..... What better then a mythical red demon with pointy pointy horns!! lol... HE MADE ME DO IT! All the War and evil!! Satan caused it!! all the starvation! Greed! Pain! Suffering! All the different types of religion and religious wars!! Satan did this to confuse us from the truth!!! All that is bad!! Satan is to blame... Is he bollocks... Man is to blame... Satan is nothing but a fall guy... An excuse, and to others he is a method to extort and intimidate people into a certain faith... satan is but a tool of man.

There is -always- a solution.

That -IS- what satan means to me... Like it or lump it.

Yah free to your opinion so share it, but don't try and change my opinions lol... There is no satan there is no hell is my opinion.
 
Whoa, guys! The blame argument misses the point entirely!

If you read the Fall in Genesis, you'll see that Adam blamed Eve, Eve blamed the serpent, etc., but it didn't wash, so where you get the idea of using the devil to shift the blame, I don't know ...

Certainly the scribes of Scripture were way ahead of you on that one, and were having none of it. Passing the buck was ruled out.

So this blame thing is a non-starter.


And Scripture says nothing less. That's why we face judgement.


But if evil is part of our nature, as you argue, then we cannot be held at fault for being true to our nature, can we? That's like God blaming us for being imperfect, even though He made us imperfect.


You're assuming there are solutions. If evil is endemic to our nature, there is no solution.

Scripture says there are, but then it has some very certain things to say about human nature, basically, that human nature is good, and was created without evil.

So evil is not endemic to human nature, but extrinsic to it, and something to be resisted.

That we fail to resist is nobody's fault but our own ... and Scripture says nothing more than that.

This 'blame' thing is just poor theology.

Thomas

I perfectly agree with all of this criticism. These questions are unanswerable to all thinking people in Christian World. And I also think it's all the fault of theology. A thousand and a half of years christian priests were imagining something to make people shiver. In Mediaeval epoch, people weren't educated usually. Devil was the most effecive "duck" to make fools of people.
And it can't be agreed ever. I mean what Mee says, calling satan a creature. I've already written what satan meant in Judea - id est "opposite side of anything". And satan in this sense is the opposite side (dark side, if you wish) of God. Hence, we can see why both satana (in Isaiah) and Jesus (in Ioannes (John)) were called "the morning star".

But in philosophical and metaphisical aspects satan means our dirty wishes, sexual inclinations, and so - in contraversy with Soul - solar aspect into us. I.e. spiritus and materia. Although this metaphisical aspect, being obvious for everyone who knows the proofs, would be very hard to discuss here, in our written web-pages. It has to be told about, not in written speach.
 
satan is a fallen angel, satan is very real :eek: sometimes known as the accuser.
 
Thanks for all your responses, interesting contrasts indeed.
 
So he has interacted in your faith/life?

Yes,

I had been listening to the lies of the enemy most of life, its only now that I have been born again and more recently recently realised that I need to resist the devil and because I am born again I actually can resist. which is where spiritual warfare comes in.
 
Yes,

I had been listening to the lies of the enemy most of life, its only now that I have been born again and more recently recently realised that I need to resist the devil and because I am born again I actually can resist. which is where spiritual warfare comes in.

Well done. So long as you are happy & keep resisting that's all that matters. Good for you :)
 
I mean what Mee says, calling satan a creature. quote]




:) satan is NOT a red creature thing with horns and pitchfork in a firery underground , thats what false religion teaches .



but satan is a name given to one of Gods angels who rebelled against God .

the one becoming Satan was, when created, a perfect, righteous creature of God. He is a spirit person,


Jesus Christ said of him: "That one was a manslayer when he began, and he did not stand fast in the truth, because truth is not in him." (Joh 8:44; 1Jo 3:8)

yes when he began that rebellious course, he became
a manslayer, he is the one that started things off with Adam and Eve.


So, from a righteous, perfect start, this spirit person deviated into sin and degradation. The process bringing this about is described by James when he writes:


"Each one is tried by being drawn out and enticed by his own desire. Then the desire, when it has become fertile, gives birth to sin; in turn, sin, when it has been accomplished, brings forth death." (Jas 1:14, 15)


 
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