Who gets into heaven (Christianity)?

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AJA1984

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Luke 20:34-36 (King James Version)


34And Jesus answering said unto them, The children of this world marry, and are given in marriage: 35But they which shall be accounted worthy to obtain that world, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry, nor are given in marriage: 36Neither can they die any more: for they are equal unto the angels; and are the children of God, being the children of the resurrection.

Can anyone clarify this for me? I find it a bit odd that heaven is taught to be attainable to all christians yet, one must be celibate to obtain the world, and be reserrected (is this passage attributed to heaven or am i confused, or is it one of those passages with multiple interpretations). Wouldn't adherence to this signal a great demise in influence in christianity? :confused:
 
AJA1984 said:
Luke 20:34-36 (King James Version)


34And Jesus answering said unto them, The children of this world marry, and are given in marriage: 35But they which shall be accounted worthy to obtain that world, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry, nor are given in marriage: 36Neither can they die any more: for they are equal unto the angels; and are the children of God, being the children of the resurrection.

Can anyone clarify this for me? I find it a bit odd that heaven is taught to be attainable to all christians yet, one must be celibate to obtain the world, and be reserrected (is this passage attributed to heaven or am i confused, or is it one of those passages with multiple interpretations). Wouldn't adherence to this signal a great demise in influence in christianity? :confused:
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In Luke, Jesus is explaining one of the differences in relationships on earth, and then in heaven. On earth, man was given woman to be a companion and helper. One part was to spare man from lonliness and lack of intimacy, and the other part was to have someone to walk and work with side by side. There is also the need to populate the earth with people by pro-creation.

In heaven, Jesus explains, there is no need for marriage/teaming up. Nor is there a need to populate heaven with people by pro-creation. This is because we will be interdimensional beings (like angels), and will be surrounded by said hosts and others like us, and shall have no time for loneliness, nor shall there be any lacking in help.

However, it does not mean that we will not have the love for those in heaven that we shared on earth. Those intimate relationships still exist, but the rules of mating and pro-creation, no longer apply (they aren't neccessary for the survival of the species).

If you think about it when we mate and conceive, we don't create the spirit of the life, just the body that will house that spirit. The spirit itself is the creation of God (just as the angels too are spirits created of God). In heaven, the need to conceive and create a natal situation, is gone.

Hope that helps.

v/r

Q
 
HI Q,
Quahom1 said:
If you think about it when we mate and conceive, we don't create the spirit of the life, just the body that will house that spirit. The spirit itself is the creation of God (just as the angels too are spirits created of God).

v/r

Q
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Very interesting thought. This spirit of life, do you think it is an individual spirit or a shared spirit for everyone? And as for the afterlife, the same question, the same spirit or a shared spirit?
Joe
 
Joedjr said:
HI Q,

Very interesting thought. This spirit of life, do you think it is an individual spirit or a shared spirit for everyone? And as for the afterlife, the same question, the same spirit or a shared spirit?
Joe
Click to expand...
I am of the opinion that it is both, and will explain that a bit more.

The scriptures say invariably that God breathed the breath of life into man. One God, same breath, every man is alive because of it. And God is no respecter of persons (does not allow exceptions to anyone, all are the same in his eyes, under the law).

However the scriptures also state the God knew each of us intimately, before we were stitched together in the womb.

Scriptures also point out that God has a personal interest in each of us and in fact seeks out individuals to work with him. He has called individuals by name. He also holds each individual accountable for their own actions, and/or rewards them for their individual obedience to him.

So, I opine that the human spirit is a two part entity, just as a human being on earth is two parts. Only the spirit is part us (our indivduality), and part God (the spark or breath that brough us into being). Without the spark or breath of God, our individual spirit dies (without God, nothing would exist), but still each of us are a unique delight to God, who made us and wants personal relationship with each and everyone of us.

It also seems apparent that God has a similar intimate relationship with angels, who are named and are apparently also unique from each other.

Why humans begin growth in a corporial state and angels do not, is unknown to me. Why we the fallen, are given a second chance at redemption and the bible states the fallen angels will not be, is also a mystery to me.

But the apparent fact that humans are each unique with a common spark of life given us all by God, is not a mystery.

His is the battery by which each of us are powered by. And we are each individually the apple of his eye.

my two cents
 
AJA1984 said:
Luke 20:34-36 (King James Version)


34And Jesus answering said unto them, The children of this world marry, and are given in marriage: 35But they which shall be accounted worthy to obtain that world, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry, nor are given in marriage: 36Neither can they die any more: for they are equal unto the angels; and are the children of God, being the children of the resurrection.

Can anyone clarify this for me? I find it a bit odd that heaven is taught to be attainable to all christians yet, one must be celibate to obtain the world, and be reserrected (is this passage attributed to heaven or am i confused, or is it one of those passages with multiple interpretations). Wouldn't adherence to this signal a great demise in influence in christianity? :confused:
Click to expand...



this is refering to the earthly resurrection , and when those who are resurrected and raised on the earth prove faithfulness, they will be like the angels,though mortal they will not die once God has declared them righteous for life.

remember ,those questioning Jesus did not believe in him or know about a heavenly resurrection.


They asked about a Jewish family under the Law. In reply Jesus referred to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, men who hoped for life again on earth. (Genesis 42:38; Job 14:13-15; compare Hebrews 11:19.)

Those patriarchs, and millions of others, who are raised on earth and who prove faithful will be "like the angels." Though mortal, they will not die once God has declared them righteous for endless life.








Jesus said to them: "The children of this system of things marry and are given in marriage, 35 but those who have been counted worthy of gaining that system of things and the resurrection from the dead neither marry nor are given in marriage. 36 In fact, neither can they die anymore, for they are like the angels, and they are God’s children by being children of the resurrection. luke 20;34-36
 
My understanding comes from forgiving seven times seventy times. If G!d expects this from us humans, and I don't mean forgive each individual 490 times, I just think that this is an indication that forgiveness should be part of our overall paradigm, ie who is going to count.

So my thinking, we will all get to heaven, eventually, we are given plenty of opportunities to make it right.

Of course to me, heaven and hell, they are choices and many walking this earth have made a choice to be in either currently. Tis perspective. Look neither high nor low for the kingdom, if you aren't happy with what you've got you won't be happy with what you get, aka the grass ain't greener on the other side of the fence.
 
to Quohom1:
I do understand what you alude to however to me it seems clear from the passage that resurrection is granted to those who never marry or are given to marriage. Its rather straightforward if you ask me, i believe your reading too deep and going off on a bit of a tangent. No distinction is made within the passage suggesting marriage is acceptable within the paramaters of obtaining the world and being reserrected nor is anything else inferred from it beyond the bit about being equal with angels. Can you cite your sources where such a distinction is made and shows your claims to be valid; beyond hearsay and open interpretation?

Clearly marriage is acceptable with heaven as one can infer from many passages such as "You shall not commit adultery". This alludes to the fact that one is capable of marriage and suggests further stipulations to it. Yet with luke it suggests that one can't be reserrected if one is married. Is this not a contradiciton?

to mee:

Can you elucidate a bit more on this? What exactly is the distinction between a heavenly and earthly reserection in your own words... further, do married people get into heaven whereas those that abstain from marriage recieve the earth (earthly reserrection)? So why all the extra effort being celibate if this is the case? How does this work? I've read the passages you cited but i don't see the parallel between them and luke beyond the fact that they discuss resurrection (they don't give stipulations for the practice of nor are they determinants for being part of said act beyond abraham's speculation).
 
Hi Q,
Quahom1 said:
I am of the opinion that it is both, and will explain that a bit more.

The scriptures say invariably that God breathed the breath of life into man. One God, same breath, every man is alive because of it. And God is no respecter of persons (does not allow exceptions to anyone, all are the same in his eyes, under the law).

However the scriptures also state the God knew each of us intimately, before we were stitched together in the womb.

Scriptures also point out that God has a personal interest in each of us and in fact seeks out individuals to work with him. He has called individuals by name. He also holds each individual accountable for their own actions, and/or rewards them for their individual obedience to him.

So, I opine that the human spirit is a two part entity, just as a human being on earth is two parts. Only the spirit is part us (our indivduality), and part God (the spark or breath that brough us into being). Without the spark or breath of God, our individual spirit dies (without God, nothing would exist), but still each of us are a unique delight to God, who made us and wants personal relationship with each and everyone of us.

It also seems apparent that God has a similar intimate relationship with angels, who are named and are apparently also unique from each other.

Why humans begin growth in a corporial state and angels do not, is unknown to me. Why we the fallen, are given a second chance at redemption and the bible states the fallen angels will not be, is also a mystery to me.

But the apparent fact that humans are each unique with a common spark of life given us all by God, is not a mystery.

His is the battery by which each of us are powered by. And we are each individually the apple of his eye.

my two cents
Click to expand...
Hey Quahom1 I've read this a bunch of times and am still digging it. Thanks for putting it together.
Joe
 
AJA1984 said:
Luke 20:34-36 (King James Version)


34And Jesus answering said unto them, The children of this world marry, and are given in marriage: 35But they which shall be accounted worthy to obtain that world, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry, nor are given in marriage: 36Neither can they die any more: for they are equal unto the angels; and are the children of God, being the children of the resurrection.
Click to expand...

Here is the Good News Version:

Jesus answered them, "The men and women of this age marry, but the men and women who are worthy to rise from death and live in the age to come will not then marry." Luke 20:34-35, Good News Version
Click to expand...

The tense in this translation suggests that it is not talking about what this group will do in the present reality, but what it will do in the future reality.
 
AJA1984 said:
to mee:

Can you elucidate a bit more on this? What exactly is the distinction between a heavenly and earthly reserection in your own words... further, do married people get into heaven whereas those that abstain from marriage recieve the earth (earthly reserrection)? So why all the extra effort being celibate if this is the case? How does this work? I've read the passages you cited but i don't see the parallel between them and luke beyond the fact that they discuss resurrection (they don't give stipulations for the practice of nor are they determinants for being part of said act beyond abraham's speculation).
Click to expand...




Its got nothing to do with if someone is married or not , its talking about the time when those who are resurreced (on the earth ) there will be no marriage like there is now .


just as the angels do not marry.

Jesus Christ exposed the wrongness of the Sadducees’ reasoning and emphasized the surety of the resurrection promise.


The Sadducees refused to believe in the resurrection and pointed to what they thought to be an insurmountable problem. They said to Jesus:
"Teacher, Moses wrote us, ‘If a man’s brother dies having a wife, but this one remained childless, his brother should take the wife and raise up offspring from her for his brother.’ Accordingly there were seven brothers; and the first took a wife and died childless. So the second, and the third took her. Likewise even the seven: they did not leave children behind, but died off. Lastly, the woman also died. Consequently, in the resurrection, of which one of them does she become the wife? For the seven got her as wife."—Luke 20:28-33.



​
but it will not be a problem will it, because it will not be that way .


at one time if a husband died it was the thing to marry his brother to keep the family line going .
 
AJA1984 said:
to mee:

further, do married people get into heaven whereas those that abstain from marriage recieve the earth (earthly reserrection)? quote]




the bible teaches that 144,000 will be resurreced after they die to be with Jesus in the heavenly kingdom , it will be a spiritual body that they are resurreced with. (flesh and blood cannot live in heaven)

and they will be men and women , some may be married and some may not be married it is not important at all .


but one thing is sure, they are VIRGINS IN A SPIRITUAL WAY, no contamination with false religion at all .


Jesus bride ,as they are spoken of , must be nice and clean and not into SPIRITUAL UNCLEANESS. they are SPIRITUALLY CLEAN. only the best for Jesus bride.


married or not married ,is not an issue but being clean in a spiritual way is very important.

they are virgins to badness.




As for those who will have an earthly resurrection, which is for the most part all the rest of us , marrige is not an issue
Click to expand...
 
Saltmeister said:
Here is the Good News Version:



The tense in this translation suggests that it is not talking about what this group will do in the present reality, but what it will do in the future reality.
Click to expand...

I always thought that the KJV was the standard to use, sure if you wish to use different versions many different things can be supported. I'd have to agree with you according to the version submitted that your in fact correct however it isn't a standard typically used.
 
mee said:
AJA1984 said:
to mee:

further, do married people get into heaven whereas those that abstain from marriage recieve the earth (earthly reserrection)? quote]




the bible teaches that 144,000 will be resurreced after they die to be with Jesus in the heavenly kingdom , it will be a spiritual body that they are resurreced with. (flesh and blood cannot live in heaven)

and they will be men and women , some may be married and some may not be married it is not important at all .


but one thing is sure, they are VIRGINS IN A SPIRITUAL WAY, no contamination with false religion at all .


Jesus bride ,as they are spoken of , must be nice and clean and not into SPIRITUAL UNCLEANESS. they are SPIRITUALLY CLEAN. only the best for Jesus bride.


married or not married ,is not an issue but being clean in a spiritual way is very important.

they are virgins to badness.




As for those who will have an earthly resurrection, which is for the most part all the rest of us , marrige is not an issue
Click to expand...

I'm aware of the 144,000 people, however the KJV doesn't elude to the fact that this is the case, if your using the other dudes bible then i would agree with you on this. This is not the case though and as such your speculating and making inferences where none are alotted as the message is clear and rather blunt in the KJV.

Marriage is indeed an issue as they will not be able to be resurected nor recieve the earth if they become married or are given to marriage. Its not some horribly complicated passage its rather clear. If you aren't lucky enough to get in heaven then your relegated to earth under certain prerequisites to obtain such a resurection. Your alluding to what you've been taught, im sure from other scriptures, but once again is this not a contradiction using the KJV? I'm not aware of the oldest new testament version of the bible, but i'd think that would be the one to use to support your case regarding this passage rather then an altered version to support dogma (such as the case of tense submitted by the other poster).
Click to expand...
 
Hi AJA1984
AJA1984 said:
mee said:
Marriage is indeed an issue as they will not be able to be resurrected nor receive the earth if they become married or are given to marriage. Its not some horribly complicated passage its rather clear. If you aren't lucky enough to get in heaven then your relegated to earth under certain prerequisites to obtain such a resurrection.
Click to expand...
Marriage or celibacy in of itself is not related to the resurrection. Neither are requirements for or against resurrection. This quote from scripture has to do with a question put to Jesus by the Sadducees questioning His idea of heaven. Jesus explains that in the world to come, existence is not the same as it is here on earth. As Quahom1 has pointed out in the world to come there will not be a "human" style of existence, no bodily form but one of the spiritual. No eyes to see, no ears to hear, no hands to feel. The human form will not leave the earth.
As far as the 144,000 I personally do not know what this is about, and as far as Mee, yes mee posts from a Jehovah Witness perspective.
Joe
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mee said:
AJA1984 said:
to mee:

further, do married people get into heaven whereas those that abstain from marriage recieve the earth (earthly reserrection)? quote]




the bible teaches that 144,000 will be resurreced after they die to be with Jesus in the heavenly kingdom , it will be a spiritual body that they are resurreced with. (flesh and blood cannot live in heaven)

and they will be men and women , some may be married and some may not be married it is not important at all .


but one thing is sure, they are VIRGINS IN A SPIRITUAL WAY, no contamination with false religion at all .


Jesus bride ,as they are spoken of , must be nice and clean and not into SPIRITUAL UNCLEANESS. they are SPIRITUALLY CLEAN. only the best for Jesus bride.


married or not married ,is not an issue but being clean in a spiritual way is very important.

they are virgins to badness.




As for those who will have an earthly resurrection, which is for the most part all the rest of us , marrige is not an issue
Click to expand...
Lol, for all fall short of the Glory of God...no exceptions. God is no respector of persons, none.
Click to expand...
 
AJA1984 said:
mee said:
I'm aware of the 144,000 people, however the KJV doesn't elude to the fact that this is the case, if your using the other dudes bible then i would agree with you on this. This is not the case though and as such your speculating and making inferences where none are alotted as the message is clear and rather blunt in the KJV.

Marriage is indeed an issue as they will not be able to be resurected nor recieve the earth if they become married or are given to marriage. Its not some horribly complicated passage its rather clear. If you aren't lucky enough to get in heaven then your relegated to earth under certain prerequisites to obtain such a resurection. Your alluding to what you've been taught, im sure from other scriptures, but once again is this not a contradiction using the KJV? I'm not aware of the oldest new testament version of the bible, but i'd think that would be the one to use to support your case regarding this passage rather then an altered version to support dogma (such as the case of tense submitted by the other poster).
Click to expand...
What are you talking about? Marriage on earth is NO impediment to getting into heaven...please.:rolleyes:
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Peace--

Catholic Church held a strong power over all christian communities for a long time. In the Middle Ages Christians who had personal Bibles in their homes were prosecuted. Also, at the time no one but the priests were allowed to interpret the Bible. The Christians who dared to have different interpretation of the Christian Message were declared heretics and were killed (Cathars, Bogumils, etc). What we "know" about them is what Catholic Church wanted us to know about them. It would be the same as if Nazis would try to tell us who the Jews that were killed were.

Today, Catholic Church admits that it added, deleted and adjusted certain passages in The Holy Bible. What eventually came down to Christians is the version of the Holy Bible that Catholic Church 'reformed' to its own liking.
 
Hi Amica —

Amica said:
Catholic Church held a strong power over all christian communities for a long time. In the Middle Ages Christians who had personal Bibles in their homes were prosecuted. Also, at the time no one but the priests were allowed to interpret the Bible. The Christians who dared to have different interpretation of the Christian Message were declared heretics and were killed (Cathars, Bogumils, etc).
Click to expand...
This is in fact common to the era — the post-Reformation Churches also wielded power and executed as they saw 'necessary', as does secular law even to this day. Control of the social structure and the death penalty is exercised by all authorities, even secular ones, so to imply the Catholics are alone in this is erroneous.

If you examine the evidence, it shows that in Europe generally, trial by the Office of the Inquisition for religious crimes were favoured over trial by the state. The latter invariably executed, whereas the Inquisition invariably acquitted.

The Inquisition in Spain shows what happens when state affairs interfere in the proper process.

The French state, for example, also wanted the Cathars 'dealt with', they saw them as a dangerous threat to the stability of the nation.

And it's also factually wrong to assume Christians were executed purely for owning Bibles.

Amica said:
What we "know" about them is what Catholic Church wanted us to know about them. It would be the same as if Nazis would try to tell us who the Jews that were killed were.
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I thinks that's an offensive and overtly judgemental statement.

Amica said:
Today, Catholic Church admits that it added, deleted and adjusted certain passages in The Holy Bible. What eventually came down to Christians is the version of the Holy Bible that Catholic Church 'reformed' to its own liking.
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OK. Can you show me what passages we added, deleted or adjusted?

Thomas
 
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