hello another newbie

nativeastral

nativeastral

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greetings from snowy scotland. hope l can find the time like you folks to contribute to this forum;if anyone can direct me to any posts on arguments for/against existence of god l would be grateful as l am doing a short course on philosophy of religion - nightmare as it relies on so much logic, not my forte. am interested in the hopeful comergence convergence of cutting edge quantum science with east/west philosophies/mysticism and the fading away of literal/historical and personal creator concepts though l know thats a long shot- but that seems to be where disagreements and tensions are:(
 
hello another newbie
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Hey n00b, err... I mean nativeastral :eek:

Welcome to the forums! :)

I usually abbreviate names which are more then a syllable (laziness),
but I cant figure out what to do with yours.. native, or astral???
how about Nastral?? ...........no no no.. astral will do. yea that sounds kool.

anyways, about the discussion on the logical proof for God...
why... what a coincidence... I have one right here 4 ya: http://www.interfaith.org/forum/proof-of-god-9794.html
And guess what it also talks about Quantum Mechanics!

if I believed in coincidences, id be spooked! lol
 
Hi nativeastral —
and welcome from just-a-little-less-snowy-London.

nativeastral said:
if anyone can direct me to any posts on arguments for/against existence of god l would be grateful as l am doing a short course on philosophy of religion - nightmare as it relies on so much logic, not my forte.
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Well the 'classic' is the Five Proofs that began with Aristotle but were made famous by St Thomas Aquinas. A serious discussion of Aquinas can be found here

There's at least 24 arguments for, as I recall, but then each argument for has its argument against.

There's another set of arguments here.

nativeastral said:
I am interested in the hopeful convergence of cutting edge quantum science ... but that seems to be where disagreements and tensions are:(
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I'd say the tension arises with the Enlightenment view of science as the absolute authority on everything. Quantum science is still science ... but it does enliven the discussion!

Welcome aboard.

Thomas
 
Thomas said:
Well the 'classic' is the Five Proofs that began with Aristotle but were made famous by St Thomas Aquinas. A serious discussion of Aquinas can be found here

There's at least 24 arguments for, as I recall, but then each argument for has its argument against.

There's another set of arguments here.
Click to expand...



I totally forgot about those... good refresher.
 
thanks for thomastic site thom and other. read your 'proof' cOde but its not saying anything new enough for entrenched scepticism in both science and organised religion for me! l liked this article #25 thread Basarab Nicolescu : Gdelian Aspects of Nature and Knowledge as it accords with triad/trinity/science of triangles in the skies [stars :which we're from yes astral!] rather than the obstinate binary/duality schema. hopefully quantum 'facts' will converge with what is known through 'faith' particularly subaltern mysticism.cheers
 
nativeastral said:
thanks for thomastic site thom and other. read your 'proof' cOde but its not saying anything new enough for entrenched scepticism in both science and organised religion for me! l liked this article #25 thread Basarab Nicolescu : Gdelian Aspects of Nature and Knowledge as it accords with triad/trinity/science of triangles in the skies [stars :which we're from yes astral!] rather than the obstinate binary/duality schema. hopefully quantum 'facts' will converge with what is known through 'faith' particularly subaltern mysticism.cheers
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I see, thats ok. I have a feeling that you might find Nick A to be more of a help to you.

see you around
 
thanks for your welcomes, and l wasnt downing your article just aware that trying to find proof is for me unattainable given the subject matter; you either believe or not until you do or not thats why l liked that article on synchronising different levels of reality within since it is only through experience that one can have that knowing, that aha feeling whether communal or not. cheers
 
nativeastral said:
thanks for thomastic site thom and other. read your 'proof' cOde but its not saying anything new enough for entrenched scepticism in both science and organised religion for me! l liked this article #25 thread Basarab Nicolescu : Gdelian Aspects of Nature and Knowledge as it accords with triad/trinity/science of triangles in the skies [stars :which we're from yes astral!] rather than the obstinate binary/duality schema. hopefully quantum 'facts' will converge with what is known through 'faith' particularly subaltern mysticism.cheers
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Hi there Nativeastral

Well if you are open to it we could discuss Nicolescu's article in the context if Inner Empiricism as explained by Jacob Needleman.

Needleman, Inner Empiricism.

The idea here is that we cannot prove God through the means of our usual dualistic thought but require developing a triune perspective that allows us the experience of the triune universe both within our being and in the great universe itself.

Do we then learn about God and the relationship of the divinity to science by imagining God or through becoming able to "Know thyself?"

Like you I believe in the unity of science and religion. whether or not we can acquire the ability through inner empiricism to be open to it is an open question for me since I see how strongly people fight against it. Yet I do believe that such understanding serves to minimize our growing ability through technology to participate in the mutual effort of self destruction we call war. I choose to participate in helping to further this minority. When I read excerpts like this one from Simone Weil, it does prove that a minority does understand so why can't it be a slowly growing minority? It is possible.

Many people thought Columbus was nuts when he said the world was round so he wouldn't fall of the end of it. He was adding a new dimension that many refused to be open to.

It is the same with the triune universe. Many are stuck in dualistic science so cannot appreciate what Dr. Nicolescu referrs to as the "included middle." It adds a new dimension which requires becoming open to thought beyond dualistic thought. Yet to these people willing and able to be open, there is simply no objective conflict between science and religion.

I believe that one identical thought is to be found--expressed very precisely and with only slight differences of modality-- in. . .Pythagoras, Plato, and the Greek Stoics. . .in the Upanishads, and the Bhagavad Gita; in the Chinese Taoist writings and. . .Buddhism. . .in the dogmas of the Christian faith and in the writings of the greatest Christian mystics. . .I believe that this thought is the truth, and that it today requires a modern and Western form of expression. That is to say, it should be expressed through the only approximately good thing we can call our own, namely science. This is all the less difficult because it is itself the origin of science. Simone Weil....Simone Pétrement, Simone Weil: A Life, Random House, 1976, p. 488
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nativeastral said:
...if anyone can direct me to any posts on arguments for/against existence of god
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Welcome to InterFaith!

It is possible to search the threads using the search function towards the top of the page. It is also possible to attach a "tag" to a thread and search using that function:

http://www.interfaith.org/forum/tags/atheism.html

That should give a few more threads to peruse at your leisure.

I would like to point out that while it is a favorite discussion of mine, I don't think any of the arguments are conclusive. All evidence for and against is circumstantial, ultimately it is a matter of faith and personal experience. My two bits.
 
thanks for pointers to what l'm looking for;l'm not conversant with forums or with computers for that matter so this will all take a while. but will definitely look at that article by Needleman when l can find some time; interesting to see science now wants to dispose of the 'subject' in science now that western philosophy has rid itself of the 'self' all in the name of good scientism. avatar in memory of morrissey of the smiths who came at the right time with daffodils in his jeans [but without his ego which thankfully with age has graciously dissipitated!]
 
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