Esoteric Christianity so called

[Nick_A]

Here's the thing Nick... you are not these people you are quoting.
If you were, then you wouldn't have accused fellow members here of
'not being able to love God'. You keep quoting me Weil, and these other
sufi mystics. And now in this very post you are not just associating
yourself with the people you are quoting, you are trying to share in
their status and seek an authority from that status to look down at
everyone else, as you have done on many occasions in the past.

I'm not accusing anyone of anything. The point is that Christianity asserts that we are a plurality and part of this plurality loves God but much of it doesn't. so whether or not we are in the act of loving god depends upon which of these aspects of our plurality are dominant. I have verified in myself that what Paul asserts is true.

Romans 7

21So I find this law at work: When I want to do good, evil is right there with me. 22For in my inner being I delight in God's law; 23but I see another law at work in the members of my body, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within my members. 24What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body of death? 25Thanks be to God—through Jesus Christ our Lord!
So then, I myself in my mind am a slave to God's law, but in the sinful nature a slave to the law of sin.

It is naive to accuse anyone of exhibiting the human condition since I have it as well. All that is suggested is that we are psychologically asleep and unaware of what is lost due to this slavery. This is why the Christian calling "to be" requires awakening.

If a person doesn't believe he is as Paul described and content with his inner life as is, then esoteric Christianity can have no meaning for them. There is no need to accuse since there is no good or bad in it anymore then if a person admits they have a broken leg. It isn't a matter of right or wrong but how to heal it.

I associate myself with them but know full well that I am not on their level. You quote the Quran but does that put you on the level as its source? I can quote some insights into a chess game by Kasparov but does this mean I play like Kasparov? No. However if someone feels as though it is worth reading Jacob Needleman's "Lost Christianity" from any excerpts I've posted, I feel I've done a good thing. There is no status in this, but rather it is the necessary effort to be human in the face of the expected growls of the status quo. Don't forget, people that have a deep need for meaning and cannot find it in fantasy land, the secular world, and all its expressions, are in a difficult spot. So if I can help in this regard, I believe it is the human thing to do rather then an effort for status.

 

[c0de]

I'm not accusing anyone of anything.

Okay now your just lying. You said exactly that to Greymare.
Do you want me to quote you?

 

[Thomas]

OK — Time out, folks.

I'm not accusing anyone of anything.

But I think it's fair to say you do appear pretty contemptuous of everyone.

Let's review Romans 7:
"When I want to do good, evil is right there with me. For in my inner being I delight in God's law; but I see another law at work in the members of my body, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within my members. What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body of death? Thanks be to God—through Jesus Christ our Lord!"
Let me offer this:
This is St Paul talking — and St Paul is recognised as one of the sources of the content and lexicon of Christian esoterism. He is a chosen of God, called, beyond his own will, driven, in fact ... But he, even now, suffers the burden of sin.

So the point is, even though a saint, he is still a sinner. You won't find any saint, and source of the Philokalia, who reckons himself without sin.

So please stop placing barriers between us and Christ — He never did.

Anyway ... as said above ... we're into personal opinions here, not doctrine ... so I'm happy to continue the discussion elsewhere, but I want to get this thread back on track.

Thomas

 

[c0de]

Anyway ... as said above ... we're into personal opinions here, not doctrine ... so I'm happy to continue the discussion elsewhere, but I want to get this thread back on track.

Thomas

sorry dude, that was my bad. Please continue:

*picks up bucket of popcorn again*

 

[Nick_A]

OK — Time out, folks.


But I think it's fair to say you do appear pretty contemptuous of everyone.

Let's review Romans 7:
"When I want to do good, evil is right there with me. For in my inner being I delight in God's law; but I see another law at work in the members of my body, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within my members. What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body of death? Thanks be to God—through Jesus Christ our Lord!"
Let me offer this:
This is St Paul talking — and St Paul is recognised as one of the sources of the content and lexicon of Christian esoterism. He is a chosen of God, called, beyond his own will, driven, in fact ... But he, even now, suffers the burden of sin.

So the point is, even though a saint, he is still a sinner. You won't find any saint, and source of the Philokalia, who reckons himself without sin.

So please stop placing barriers between us and Christ — He never did.

Anyway ... as said above ... we're into personal opinions here, not doctrine ... so I'm happy to continue the discussion elsewhere, but I want to get this thread back on track.

Thomas

We are all sinners. The point of Christianity is to use it by keeping it in perspective or as Jesus said: "Get thee behind me Satan." He didn't say go to hell but rather get behind. Even hemorrhoids are useful when providng the necessary pain in the ass that helps one to awaken. Satan then and its temptations provides a necessary hemorrhoidal purpose relating to awakening.

But this type of rejection and righteous indignation has to be considered in the context of recognizing the human condition and the attitude normal for rejection. Socrates describes it well in the Allegory of the Cave:

[Socrates] And if there were a contest, and he had to compete in measuring the shadows with the prisoners who had never moved out of the cave, while his sight was still weak, and before his eyes had become steady (and the time which would be needed to acquire this new habit of sight might be very considerable) would he not be ridiculous? Men would say of him that up he went and down he came without his eyes; and that it was better not even to think of ascending; and if any one tried to loose another and lead him up to the light, let them only catch the offender, and they would put him to death.

Jesus describes it in John 15:

18"If the world hates you, keep in mind that it hated me first. 19If you belonged to the world, it would love you as its own. As it is, you do not belong to the world, but I have chosen you out of the world. That is why the world hates you.

The point here is that the closer one gets to the essence of Christianity which is the purpose of esoteric Christianity, the more they will be hated by the World. Christianity has a very limited appeal since most are content in the world or within the confines of Plato's cave including Christendom within it.

If I'm good enough to be worthy of a little righteous indignation by expressing these ideas I've acquired from the Bible and other sources concerning the human condition, it means I'm moving in the right direction.

 

[Thomas]

But this type of rejection and righteous indignation has to be considered in the context of recognizing the human condition and the attitude normal for rejection.

Yes, I think I quoted from the Philokalia on that point, when you complained that 'righteous indignation' was a negative ... ?

The point here is that the closer one gets to the essence of Christianity which is the purpose of esoteric Christianity,

Actually that's a tautological statement, which indicates its fundamental lack of logic.

Christianity has a very limited appeal ...

I find it has limited appeal because it calls on faith rather than intellectualism.

In fact, Christianity is founded on what you call blind faith:
"And Jesus saith to him: I will come and heal him. And the centurion making answer, said: Lord, I am not worthy that thou shouldst enter under my roof: but only say the word, and my servant shall be healed ... And Jesus hearing this, marvelled; and said to them that followed him: Amen I say to you, I have not found so great faith in Israel"
(Matthew 8:7-8,10).

If I'm good enough to be worthy of a little righteous indignation by expressing these ideas I've acquired from the Bible and other sources concerning the human condition, it means I'm moving in the right direction.

Or it means you're making the most preposterous assumptions ... which when we discuss the content of this so-called esoteric Christianity, I hope to demonstrate.

Thomas

 

[Nick_A]

Yes, I think I quoted from the Philokalia on that point, when you complained that 'righteous indignation' was a negative ... ?


Actually that's a tautological statement, which indicates its fundamental lack of logic.


I find it has limited appeal because it calls on faith rather than intellectualism.

In fact, Christianity is founded on what you call blind faith:
"And Jesus saith to him: I will come and heal him. And the centurion making answer, said: Lord, I am not worthy that thou shouldst enter under my roof: but only say the word, and my servant shall be healed ... And Jesus hearing this, marvelled; and said to them that followed him: Amen I say to you, I have not found so great faith in Israel"
(Matthew 8:7-8,10).


Or it means you're making the most preposterous assumptions ... which when we discuss the content of this so-called esoteric Christianity, I hope to demonstrate.

Thomas

Thomas

Yes, I think I quoted from the Philokalia on that point, when you complained that 'righteous indignation' was a negative ... ?

No, you said you would research it. When you do you will see that righteous indignation is just an expression of false pride that feels good since it furthers self justification, but in reality only denies further understanding.

Actually that's a tautological statement, which indicates its fundamental lack of logic.

All this means is that you deny how Christianity has devolved into Christendom and take everything as the same in objective quality. Choosing our own reality is not Christianity. Becoming consciously and impartially able to discriminate between the wheat and tares is.

I find it has limited appeal because it calls on faith rather than intellectualism.

I find it has limited appeal since it suggests that we are in Plato's cave and asleep to reality with the possibility of awakening into a higher quality of "being." This is the biggest possible insult to secularism which now prides itself on its "intelligence."

In fact, Christianity is founded on what you call blind faith:
"And Jesus saith to him: I will come and heal him. And the centurion making answer, said: Lord, I am not worthy that thou shouldst enter under my roof: but only say the word, and my servant shall be healed ... And Jesus hearing this, marvelled; and said to them that followed him: Amen I say to you, I have not found so great faith in Israel"
(Matthew 8:7-8,10).

Take the whole passage:

5When Jesus had entered Capernaum, a centurion came to him, asking for help. 6"Lord," he said, "my servant lies at home paralyzed and in terrible suffering."

7Jesus said to him, "I will go and heal him."
8The centurion replied, "Lord, I do not deserve to have you come under my roof. But just say the word, and my servant will be healed. 9For I myself am a man under authority, with soldiers under me. I tell this one, 'Go,' and he goes; and that one, 'Come,' and he comes. I say to my servant, 'Do this,' and he does it." 10When Jesus heard this, he was astonished and said to those following him, "I tell you the truth, I have not found anyone in Israel with such great faith. 11I say to you that many will come from the east and the west, and will take their places at the feast with Abraham, Isaac and Jacob in the kingdom of heaven. 12But the subjects of the kingdom will be thrown outside, into the darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth."

The Centurion is at a level that commands a hundred men yet he is nothing compared to the level of Jesus and knows it. He gives to the lower and receives from the higher There is no sense for Jesus to work through his level but the centurion's faith connects the higher and lower so the lower can be healed through him as the "middle.".

The faith OF Christ then is acquiring and maintaining the perspective that connects the higher and lower within our being in a quality of being we know as "presence."

Or it means you're making the most preposterous assumptions ... which when we discuss the content of this so-called esoteric Christianity, I hope to demonstrate.

We shall see.

 

[Nick_A]

I feel I must caution anyone lurking that may find the concept of esoteric Christianity attractive. The idea seems to be gaining in popularity which is good in one way for those that feel the need for something with more depth but if taken wrongly, can put a person in a worse position then when beginning to become involved.

I bring this up since I was reading up on an Esoteric Interfaith Church

Esoteric Interfaith Church, Inc.

Clicking on "what we believe" indicates some genuine research and they seem like a group of nice people. I'm not that much a fan of Richard Smoley but it could be worse. What could one be concerned about? The answer is in Matthew 12.

43"When an evil[f] spirit comes out of a man, it goes through arid places seeking rest and does not find it. 44Then it says, 'I will return to the house I left.' When it arrives, it finds the house unoccupied, swept clean and put in order. 45Then it goes and takes with it seven other spirits more wicked than itself, and they go in and live there. And the final condition of that man is worse than the first. That is how it will be with this wicked generation."

Esoteric Christianity being an inner tradition and not just New Age fantasy does contain techniques that can open one up and clean one out so to speak . However, not many are aware of how this "house unoccupied, swept clean and put in order" is vulnerable. People start sharing exercises someone discovered and acquire results. However, without the proper guidance which can be uncomfortable to experience, a person can begin to adapt this "New Wine" to fit their "Old Bottles." A person can really do real harm to themselves if their egos adopt the teaching. They can create an inner dirty house far worse than before and far more difficult to clean.

So for what its worth, ask yourself what you want. Do you want self justification through religion or are you willing to sacrifice self justification for what esoteric Christianity can offer? If not sure, it is probably best to just enjoy its ideas because they are beautiful but without going deeper until it is really needed and one is willing to sacrifice the joys of self deception for. The way to keep the house clean is to remember ones nothingness and create a New Bottle out of oneself. Then there is nothing for perversion to grab hold of and we can maintain the necessary impartial detachment to keep the inner house clean.

 

[Nick_A]

Though it deals with the kingdom of God, this post deals specifically with the concept from the esoteric perspective. It belongs here then since it isn't something that could be part of a Sunday talk. It requires more contemplation and explained superficially, it just loses its value. Yet for those that are interested in these things, I'll post it as food for thought.

What is man's true future? Is it in time or in some other direction? In time his future is an increasing belief in the hypnotic ideas that his state induces. But another future for man is possible, now, namely, the reaching of a better state. This future, which is not in future time but now, can be thought of as vertical to time -- as belonging to an upright line, indicating higher and lower states, like a scale or ladder.

If we imagine time, diagrammatically, drawn as a horizontal line -- that is, a line representing past, present and future -- this vertical line, entering a man at any moment of time, indicates the possibility of a higher or lower state of himself at that moment of time. And if we wish to understand anything about the Gospels, this imaginary upright line, indicating the possible states of man, must be grasped, for the Gospels are all about a man reaching a higher state of himself, not externally in the world, but in himself in this life, and not in a hereafter, but now.

The meaning implied by the word metanoia is far more than mere temporary change of state. A man who tries to restrain himself and struggles not to go with what he believes is his worst side, and strives to keep what he regards as good or the path of duty, and to live what he believes to be a righteous life, does not reach the stage of metanoia. And even though he may feel convinced that his mode of life is not due to the desire to feel meritorious, or to be an example in the eyes of other people, or to the fear of the police, or of social contempt, or of losing his reputation as a respected man, but that it is really due to himself, he does not undergo any change of mind. And, as it was said, there must have been many people in Jerusalem who led good and moral lives, yet Christ's words "unless ye repent" -- that is, undergo a change of mind -- "ye shall likewise perish" show that something else is meant.

Here lies one of the deepest ideas in the psychological teaching of the Gospels. A radical, permanent transformation is taught as being possible and metanoia is the technical description of it. But a man cannot reach a permanent higher level of himself unless there is built up in him a connection of ideas that can gradually lift him beyond his present level. The idea of the Kingdom of Heaven is therefore a supreme idea in this respect. It represents the higher Good. It stands beyond visible life and material truth and physical theories and, however dimly conceived, opens a direction in a man's mind that is new, brings about new connections in his thoughts and feelings, and new communications in his understanding.

The idea of the self-evolution of man, the idea of metanoia or transformation of mind, and the idea of the Kingdom of Heaven are all connected and related ideas. What must be understood is that for this self-evolution and transformation to begin a man must cease to follow only the evidence of the senses. He must give up deductions from nature and phenomena and events and occurrences of life. He must no longer see in external life the full meaning of his own life or strive to find it outside himself. It must be realized that a man who has come to the conclusion that there can be nothing higher than what he represents, and that there is no "God" because of the bad and evil state of the world, is in the same situation, psychologically speaking, as the disciples who thought everything that happened on earth was due to the will of God.

The idea of metanoia and the Kingdom of Heaven lies in another direction. A man must turn round from the world and see himself. Many of the parables in the Gospels deal with this. A parable is a comparison; its physical, literal or sensual meaning is one thing, but its real meaning lies on a level above the senses. A parable is thus a transforming-machine between two levels of meaning. It has its literal meaning, and also another psychological meaning. It is a meaning through which greater meaning can be indicated apart from the words or images used in it, which have their own lesser meaning. The meaning of a parable is always psychological, and never literal or physical.

A parable thus bridges two levels of meaning, sensual and psychological. In one place it is said that Christ spoke to the multitude only in parables, but gave direct teaching to his own disciples in private. And it must be recalled that Christ is continually said to have told his hearers that they did not understand what he was saying because they had no ears to hear with and no eyes to see with -- that is, their understanding was shut, and all internal or psychological meaning was incomprehensible to them and everything was taken quite literally, as relating to the realm of external, physical facts and events.

-- excerpted from The Mark, by Maurice Nicoll

 

[Janz]

Nick_A and all those interested. I find my spirit attracted to The Esoteric Teachings of Jesus and the Nazarene Essenes: This message was for the ears of man alone, they who walk between the worlds of earth and heaven. And unto the ears of man was whispered this message.. ~The Essene Gospel of Peace

For more see:
Essenes, Essene Teachings and Essene Theology

 

[Thomas]

Nick —

As you have been unable to defend one of your cited authorities whom it would appear is riddled with errors and assumptions, it seems pointless to continue posting tracts supporting what appears to be a fundamentally erroneous thesis.

Thomas

 

[Nick_A]

Nick_A and all those interested. I find my spirit attracted to The Esoteric Teachings of Jesus and the Nazarene Essenes: This message was for the ears of man alone, they who walk between the worlds of earth and heaven. And unto the ears of man was whispered this message.. ~The Essene Gospel of Peace

For more see:
Essenes, Essene Teachings and Essene Theology

I'll share with you something along these lines that I've been meaning to get verified which isn't easy to do since who knows Aramaic. However click on this link

The Lords Prayer

If you read the Lord's Prayer translated from the Aramaic it is all about vibrations. I believe this to be true but of course in modern times one could be boiled in oil for even suggesting such things. Though for anyone open enough to consider such things, it is worth contemplating IMO. I hope you appreciate it.

 

[Nick_A]

Nick —

As you have been unable to defend one of your cited authorities whom it would appear is riddled with errors and assumptions, it seems pointless to continue posting tracts supporting what appears to be a fundamentally erroneous thesis.

Thomas

You worry about defending and I'm concerned with experiencing. This is why you could never understand those like Simone, Prof. Needleman, Dr. Nicoll, and others. All that can be given is an intellectual skeleton within which a person can begin to experientially fill in the body if they can become capable of doing so. I can only wonder what you would do to the Sermon on the Mount with all these arguments of yours that would force you to miss its essential theme.

 

[Janz]

I'll share with you something along these lines that I've been meaning to get verified which isn't easy to do since who knows Aramaic. However click on this link

The Lords Prayer

If you read the Lord's Prayer translated from the Aramaic it is all about vibrations. I believe this to be true but of course in modern times one could be boiled in oil for even suggesting such things. Though for anyone open enough to consider such things, it is worth contemplating IMO. I hope you appreciate it.

If you want to do some more research on Aramaic and the NT, here are the links that I have found to be enlightening on that subject.

The Aramaic Bible Research Directory

Hugoye: Journal of Syriac Studies

Aramaic English New Testament by Andrew Gabriel Roth


I especially appreciate the research and scholarship of Andrew Gabriel Roth. I disagree with some of his theological conclusions but his mastery of the Aramaic language and translations is to be admired. IMHO

There is another link but I cannot paste it here as since Pe****ta has the letters s_h_i_t and that word is being censored here. Maybe I can send the link to you Nick in a PM.

 

[Nick_A]

If you want to do some more research on Aramaic and the NT, here are the links that I have found to be enlightening on that subject.

The Aramaic Bible Research Directory

Hugoye: Journal of Syriac Studies

Aramaic English New Testament by Andrew Gabriel Roth


I especially appreciate the research and scholarship of Andrew Gabriel Roth. I disagree with some of his theological conclusions but his mastery of the Aramaic language and translations is to be admired. IMHO

There is another link but I cannot paste it here as since Pe****ta has the letters s_h_i_t and that word is being censored here. Maybe I can send the link to you Nick in a PM.

Thanks for the link. I must admit being surprised but happy to learn of your sincere interest. As you know, it's not the usual.

 

[Thomas]

You worry about defending and I'm concerned with experiencing.

My point is, what you're experiencing is your own (or another's) fantasia.

Thomas

 

[Nick_A]

My point is, what you're experiencing is your own (or another's) fantasia.

Thomas

That is why esoteric Christianity requires grounded conscious presence. Fantasy is what takes the place of conscious presence. That is how one is able to "test the spirits." Conscious presence requires a developed power of attention. Fantasy cannot dominate in this semi awakened state nor can negative emotions. When negative emotions dominate, we are incapable of conscious attention.

Escapism popular in New Age circles is the voluntary sacrifice of our power of conscious attention that keeps us open to help from above rather then filling that opening with imagination.

 

[Thomas]

Hi Jamarz —

I find my spirit attracted to The Esoteric Teachings of Jesus and the Nazarene Essenes: ...

So was mine ... there are many out there with honeyed words ... you have to test severely. Most is pure fictions dreamed up by those seeking the adulation of others, by passing themselves off as 'mystics', etc.

Another point to remember, from evidence we now have, is that the Essenes were a militant and 'hard line' or 'right wing' outfit ... the idea of their being peaceniks was an invention of the Romance Movement, in the absence of any hard data.

Jesus would have been slung out of the Essenes on his ear — they were hardline on ritual purity and the observance of their rule.

A critique of:
Essenes, Essene Teachings and Essene Theology

The Gospel of the Nazarenes The most ancient and complete early Christian fragment. Written in Aramaic, the text includes the complete life and teachings of Jesus. The lections of this ancient Gospel set forth a much higher moral and spiritual understanding than is currently taught by the Christian church.

Factually wrong on many counts. It is not the most ancient nor the most complete, indeed, how can one say a text 'includes the complete life and teachings of Jesus' — measured against what? And of course, filled with the 'higher moral and spiritual understanding' never prevents anyone from slipping in a dig against Christian orthodoxy, does it?

The Gospel of the Nazoreans is a translation into Aramaic of the Greek text of the Gospel of Matthew, circulated in Western Syria, Matthew's traditional preaching ground and addresses a Jewish audience. The theology reflected in the extant fragments are not at all 'heretical,' but is dependent upon the developing theology of the emerging 'Catholic' church. The existence of Matthew as an earlier source made it superfluous in the gospel tradition.

It's first mention is c180AD, some 60 years later than the Synoptics — so by no means ancient. Fragments are preserved in Origen, Eusebius and Epiphanius. Most of the text assigned to the Gospel of the Nazoreans come from Jerome (c400AD) — so hardly 'complete'.

As the Greek Matthew is an translation/expansion of an earlier Hebrew Matthew (now lost), a 'logia' or sayings document, the Gospel of the Nazoreans is far from the most ancient, and rather than complete, it is unoriginal.

+++

The Essene Gospels of Peace Liberated from the secret archives of the Vatican...

Sorry, but this is a real old chesnut, a pseudo-essene document and a typical piece of self-glorification.

Published in 1928 by Dr. Edmund Bordeaux Szekely, supposedly discovered in the Secret Archives of the Vatican ... this book ranks alongside Rev. Gideon Ousely's "The Gospel of the Holy Twelve" (supposedly translated from Essene texts hidden in a Tibetan monastery, and partially channelled to him by angels) as products of the Romance Movement and Theosophical inspirations and mischief making at the start of the last century. Subsequent investigations into the claims of these individuals produced nothing to substantiate their stories. Biblical scholars don't consider the Szekely or Ousely writings as authentic. Szekely's text supports his politics of 'Biogenic Living' (vegetarianism). Ousely can be seen here

+++

The Nag Hammadi Library a collection of thirteen ancient codices containing over fifty texts. Discovered in upper Egypt in 1945, this immensely important discovery includes a large number of primary Gnostic scriptures, texts once thought to have been entirely destroyed during the early Christian struggle to define "orthodoxy"

And yet the texts do nothing to upset "orthodoxy".

+++

The Gospel of Thomas These are the secret sayings which the living Jesus spoke and which Didymos Judas Thomas wrote down. Complete with parallels and commonalties from the New Testament Gospels.

The GoT dates from the fourth century. As Thomas himself, according to the tradition, journeyed to India where he was killed, it is unlikely this text is in any sense authentic. It's neither Christian nor properly gnostic, and exists in its own right as a matter of historical interest, but has nothing of any value to say or offer Christianity as such.

+++

The Gospel of Q A collection of Jesus' sayings which forms the two-source hypothesis and the most widely accepted solution to the synoptic problem which posits that Matthew and Luke drew on two written sources, as shown by textual correspondences between their works. The Gospel of Mark forms one source, and Q the other.

Let us not forget that Q is a hypothetical solution to a problem. There is no evidence at all for any such document ever to have existed, and even if there was, scholars are unable to say what it might have contained.

A better bet is to assume that Matthew and Luke utilised Mark, that Matthew also utilised the Hebrew Matthew referred to but now lost, and Luke similarly drew on other sources. Of course, the real problem is that Historical Critical scholars simply ignore oral tradition — which Luke makes a point of — because it doesn't fit into their neat little packaging of texts.

+++

Sorry if this seems so negative, but I think the truth deserves a fair hearing in these cases.

Thomas

 

[Janz]

^ Thanks for your response, Thomas. I will do my own research on your critiques but it may take awhile. ~~Jan

 

[Nick_A]

^ Thanks for your response, Thomas. I will do my own research on your critiques but it may take awhile. ~~Jan

As to be expected, I disagree with Thomas. We don't really know that much about the Essenes but it is safe to say that they suffered the same problems we have now which is the secularization of religion. that can easily explain the hostility.

I appreciate the link and plan to look into it. Naturally I look for planes of existence first since I've learned that without the awarenss of the relativity of "being" which is the norm today, nothing can truly be understood. Naturally I found the following revealing:

The Planes of Correspondence

Perhaps we can discuss some ideas in the future.