The Poisonous Nature of Religion

[c0de]

To me this is sadistic, I learn more when i'm at comfort, alert and through example and observation.

I think it depends on what exactly is being learned.
Take martial arts for example. You can never learn
to be a good fighter unless you are actually
sparring. All the form and practice is useless
without an actual test of nerves.

The purification proccess outlined in religion is
the actual practice behind the theory. Even its
application in basic things like charity for example.
You give away something to someone else, it
requires you to overcome your own desires for
something right?

I agree with you I'd say its done more to unite then divide.. There's always going to be misjudgment because God is infinite.

That's a nice way to saying it.

 

[GlorytoGod]

I would have to agree with Thomas here; religion isn't the problem its made out to be.
There is a mistaken idea that we all seem to suffer from and that is that we are separate beings. Religion is just a handy excuse to elevate some and degrade others. If all the world is a stage, religion is used as a prop, the background to act out dysfunctional ideas.

so in your opinion religion is utterly without influence in people lives.

 

[Paladin]

so in your opinion religion is utterly without influence in people lives.

I wouldn't say that.
Religion isn't an objective thing, its an idea, a construct. Outside the human mind religion isn't.

 

[GlorytoGod]

I wouldn't say that.

thats what it sounds like to me.

either religion is has power and influence in peoples or it does not.

if it does then it has power and influence, if it is not is devoid of power and influence.

i am of the latter opinion I believe that religion has both power and influence in peoples lives and this is reflected in their actions.

 

[Postmaster]

I think it depends on what exactly is being learned.
Take martial arts for example. You can never learn
to be a good fighter unless you are actually
sparring. All the form and practice is useless
without an actual test of nerves.

And all the other factors you need to be a good fighter. The right teacher, health, physique, funding, transportation, mentality etc etc. There all eqaullity imporant to me, because if you miss one factor out you might not be able to fight which is the, objective. Imagine fasting while fighting?

 

[Thomas]

so are you saying that there is nothing wrong with religion in itself but only the people who practice it ?

If 'religion' is by definition the re-establishment of communion with God, then what's wrong with that?

Thomas

 

[Thomas]

I disagree. Some ancient religions required human sacrifices, today that is extinct from practise in religion.

And hindsight is a wonderful thing.

+++

A couple of months ago I heard that the common practice of blood transfusing patients to build up their strength (not to replace blood loss) — a common medical practice, is now coming under severe scrutiny as the cause of death in many cases.

I remember that it was US medics in Viet Nam who realised that the 'massive' medical intervention, the kind that only a technologically advanced nation could provide for its fighting troops, was actually killing as many as it saved. Now the lesson is 'gently gently' rather than pile in, which only adds to the burden of shock the body has to support.

Ancient and recent monotheistic religions require fasting. Who knows how we will consider fasting in the future?

Well as obesity seems to be the No1. problem, I should imagine the same as we do now, the practice of self-discipline.

I do take your point however, that such self discipline can be carried to extremes. Today self discipline is generally regarded as 'a bad thing' — unless the discipline itself involves consuption of something or other — we live in a consumer culture, after all.

The purpose of Religion is to guide, yet some of the doctrines can make the human condition worse.

Yes they can ... but invariably that's when something is carried to an extreme. "Moderation in all things" as the saints and sages say. So once again, I would suggest the fault lies with man.

Don't lose sight of the fact that the present culture in which we live also requires human sacrifice, we've just been educated not to see it that way.

Thomas

 

[Thomas]

People forever delight in informing me of the old chestnut "Some of the bloodiest wars in history have been fought over religion."

Sadly, after the last century, that is no longer the case, in fact far from it.

Now, political idealism is the big killer. Count the dead of the Soviet purges, the Third Reich, Pol Pot, Chairman Mao ... suddenly the Crusades are small beer by comparison.

And economics will replace politics (already we see countries who cannot allow banks to fail, because the effect will be too devastating) and whose foreign policy is determined by global business conglomerates ...

And energy will replace economics ...

Let us not forget chaps, that 30,000 children die in Africa every day, so that we can enjoy the comforts of our largely secular-orientated lifestyle. The fact that it's not on our doorstep is a convenience, but let us not kid ourselves, our lifestyle is toxic in more ways than one, for a large portion of the planet.

So I would say that the poisonous nature of post-industrial secular society is far, far more murderous than any religion. Religion has never been seen as a threat to the very future of the planet — secular society is.

Thomas

 

[Postmaster]

Thats why I said I would recommend/prefer a healthy balanced diet to fasting.

Machiavellian philosophy is forced, created by everyones plain old ignorance and laziness to me.

I diagree with secular society being a threat to our planet, I see fundementalism as a threat, in any form where it be from non religious or religious. Any set and focused mindset has potensial to be dangerous to me.

 

[GlorytoGod]

sadly many religious people are in denial regarding rotten fruit that some of their theologies bring to the world

 

[c0de]

And all the other factors you need to be a good fighter. The right teacher, health, physique, funding, transportation, mentality etc etc. There all eqaullity imporant to me, because if you miss one factor out you might not be able to fight which is the, objective. Imagine fasting while fighting?

All those factors will not matter if you lack
the nerves to actually put what you have learned
into practice when the moment comes. That one
factor is the ability to actually withstand pressure.

We are not talking about academics here... This is
a quality which can not be learned through teaching.
Unless you are forced to withstand pressure in
intense situations, it can not be developed. This is
the idea behind the purification in religious practices
like fasting. You might disagree, but self-discipline
and control is a crucial part of the spiritual struggle.

 

[Postmaster]

I 100% agree with you on that however I really can't see it coming from fasting. Not everyone can fast for instance it can be dangerous to older people and people with medical conditions. In our modern society fasting can have negative effects on jobs, people with high responsibility that need focus like life guards, sports, fast pace industries like hairdressering and catering industry. Try the feast after a fast which we have in Christianity, people end up in hospital from overwhelming there bodies.

 

[c0de]

I 100% agree with you on that however I really can't see it coming from fasting. Not everyone can fast for instance it can be dangerous to older people and people with medical conditions. In our modern society fasting can have negative effects on jobs, people with high responsibility that need focus like life guards, sports, fast pace industries like hairdressering and catering industry. Try the feast after a fast which we have in Christianity, people end up in hospital from overwhelming there bodies.

Definitely. This is why fasting is only prescribed for healthy
individuals. Children and the elderly are automatically exempt.

By the way, did you know most people actually gain wait during Ramadan?
lol. Yea, its almost a custom these days to stuff your face with all sorts
of greasy food before the sun comes up and after sunset to make up
for the time you didn't spend eating during the day... most people actually
end up eating more, and more unhealthily during the fasting period.

 

[Postmaster]

I see. Just to add that sick cults have and do use fasting which just goes to show its sadistic nature.

 

[wil]

sadly many religious people are in denial regarding rotten fruit that some of their theologies bring to the world

I think it is the zealots, the fanatics, the radical beliefs that war...

like the saying, guns don't kill people, people kill people.

Religion doesnt enflame, the radicals use religion like a gun, like a maginfying glass to seperate...to enflame

 

[GlorytoGod]

Definitely. This is why fasting is only prescribed for healthy
individuals. Children and the elderly are automatically exempt.

just be sure not to miss any or you could be in big trouble !

By the way, did you know most people actually gain wait during Ramadan?
lol. Yea, its almost a custom these days to stuff your face with all sorts
of greasy food before the sun comes up and after sunset to make up
for the time you didn't spend eating during the day... most people actually
end up eating more, and more unhealthily during the fasting period.

LOL that true, the most unhealthy thing about islamic fasting is the lack of water and the dehydration that comes with it !

 

[c0de]

@ Glory2God

Dude those stupid fatwas are a joke. No one actually takes
them seriously, except the total lunatics.

p.s. nevermind, seems you edited that out of your post.

p.p.s. The lack of water is not that big of a problem for
healthy individuals. I have completed cardio workout
routines while fasting. It's not that big of a deal. Your
only without water for like half a day. You can survive
like a week without water.

 

[GlorytoGod]

@ Glory2God

Dude those stupid fatwas are a joke. No one actually takes
them seriously, except the total lunatics.

p.s. nevermind, seems you edited that out of your post.

well i removed them, to confrontational. although I am suprised that you consider the ways of the prophet a joke !

p.p.s. The lack of water is not that big of a problem for
healthy individuals. I have completed cardio workout
routines while fasting. It's not that big of a deal. Your
only without water for like half a day. You can survive
like a week without water.

going from my own experience the lack of water during the day is horrible and depending on the time of year the days can be very long.

 

[c0de]

well i removed them, to confrontational. although I am suprised that you consider the ways of the prophet a joke !

Ways of the Prophet? lol. According to whom?
Those idiots issuing these fatwas?

going from my own experience the lack of water during the day is horrible and depending on the time of year the days can be very long.

You gotta toughen up there bud

 

[GlorytoGod]

Ways of the Prophet? lol. According to whom?
Those idiots issuing these fatwas?


You gotta toughen up there bud

well as I understand things, authentic hadiths

Hadith - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Hadith (الحديث transliteration: al-ḥadīth, pl. aḥadīth; lit. "narrative") are oral traditions relating to the words and deeds of the Islamic prophet Muhammad. Hadith collections are regarded as important tools for determining the Sunnah, or Muslim way of life, by all traditional schools of jurisprudence.