The Poisonous Nature of Religion

GlorytoGod said:
well most muslims would disagree with that !

so are you quran only muslim then !
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Most Muslims are simply unaware of the facts.
You created the thread in the Islam section,
I responded there in more detail.

btw, I am not a "quran only Muslim". I follow the hadith,
the ones I feel are not in contradiction to the Quran.
I just give the Quran priority, as every Muslim should.
 
Another point of view towards fasting is in the ancient times when people had food shortages and famines they needed to learn how to go long periods without food, this is also a reason for sacrifices in religions, traces of sacrificed children can even be found in the Mediterranean, they served 2 purposes less mouths to feed and honouring the Gods.... This an example of how religion meets social needs.
 
in my opinion the poisonous nature of religion boils down to one thing............
Mankind, and how we interpret our faiths.
We stuff everything up.
And use our "faith/religions" as "evidence" of our misguided righteousness.
peace out
 
Tealleaf said:
Language, race and culture tend to divide us just as well.

One might think that reason and science would be things that necessarily bring us together but they don't. When it comes write down to it from a rational scientific viewpoint we are all in competition with one another. It's dog eat dog (or more accurately a dogs eat dog) kind of world.
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Good point.
 
Postmaster said:
Another point of view towards fasting is in the ancient times when people had food shortages and famines they needed to learn how to go long periods without food, this is also a reason for sacrifices in religions, traces of sacrificed children can even be found in the Mediterranean, they served 2 purposes less mouths to feed and honouring the Gods.... This an example of how religion meets social needs.
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and also parental guilt may be the most overwhelming force in humanity. In old times there were few ways to save a weak baby, no extra time to keep it alive. Caring for a baby put other lives in jeapardy, so mothers were perhaps required to make the most terrible choice. Perhaps they needed a way to get past their guilt, or perhaps it was the tribal way of forcing them to make that choice.
 
You would expect a maternal and paternal instinct to wait out whatever the problem was, instead of resorting to youthanasia, which isn't that common, it was frowned upon by other, previous and later cultures.
 
Alex P said:
lol!? For reals?...

Ok I'll pick a few "chestnuts"....

Power?? These days there are not as many that take religion so serious, and of course not -that- much mythology around these days either... But To a degree there is still power to be taken..... And back in the old days Holy men had the power of kings........

TAX??? lol... Um tax free business? sounds a good reason to me.....

Most reasons come down to money.. Example selling "insurance" no one can prove to be needed....

Extortion???? Pay me or you rot and burn within the depths of hell.... Pay me to baptise your child... Or they shall float in purgatory.... Pay me to read from a book at your loved ones funeueral...

Favour? God wants us to go and stomp the hell out of these bishes over here!! Heathen dogs! They must pay!! Oh and they have something I want too....

Fake hope to make money? come up to the to pc monitor and place your hand upon it! And I will do the same! and for a short fee I will heal you of your ills!!
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And let's not forget the chicks ;)

All that being said though sometimes people just want to create a better and more satisfying way of living. Ain't nothing wrong with that. Is there?
 
Postmaster said:
You would expect a maternal and paternal instinct to wait out whatever the problem was, instead of resorting to youthanasia, which isn't that common, it was frowned upon by other, previous and later cultures.
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You mean you would. Roman culture was a culture that employed euthanasia, and so did many of the Native American tribes and other ancient cultures. Yes, euthanasia has always been debated, perhaps disliked, but rarely absent. I will make an argument from Exodus:

Read the account of Israel leaving Egypt in the book Exodus, and notice how much discretionary power belonged to Hebrew midwives. One day the Pharoah decided Israel was becoming too many, so he instructed the Hebrew midwives to kill all the Hebrew boys. There was no doubt in his mind that they could do it, and it is plain that the midwives were able to do it discretely. The resourceful midwives ignored the bloody command, excusing themselves by saying Hebrew mothers were vigorous and gave birth before they arrived! Their basic argument to Pharoah was that they could not terminate a Hebrew mother's child once she had seen it was viable. I suggest it was up to them whether or not she ever saw the babes. (Remember why Moses was saved by his mother --she saw he was a goodly child.) The Pharoah accepted this argument from the midwives, which should hint at the power of an ancient midwife -- total control of the birth process. It was only in response to the powerful midwive's deception, that Pharoah resorted to publically order that all Hebrew baby males be tossed into the Nile.

Reference: Exodus 1:8 - Exodus 2:2
 
GlorytoGod said:
Quite often religion can end up dividing people rather than bringing us together, which I find detestable.

What do you think ?
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I believe that you are correct. But I also beleive that its of our own doing. It is my opinion that human beings have a drive to be "right". Most beleive that their particular way to God is the only way. Sadly, I hate to admit that I formally resided in that camp as well.

In my search I have come the the conclusion that just as we are all unique, God has given us many ways to connect with him. I personally relate to God thru the Christian tradition but I am also exploring Druidism as well.

I now beleive that God gave us many avenues that lead to him, but as mankind usually does..we managed to pervert the whole process.

Just my 2 cents:)
 
Dream said:
You mean you would. Roman culture was a culture that employed euthanasia, and so did many of the Native American tribes and other ancient cultures. Yes, euthanasia has always been debated, perhaps disliked, but rarely absent. I will make an argument from Exodus:

Read the account of Israel leaving Egypt in the book Exodus, and notice how much discretionary power belonged to Hebrew midwives. One day the Pharoah decided Israel was becoming too many, so he instructed the Hebrew midwives to kill all the Hebrew boys. There was no doubt in his mind that they could do it, and it is plain that the midwives were able to do it discretely. The resourceful midwives ignored the bloody command, excusing themselves by saying Hebrew mothers were vigorous and gave birth before they arrived! Their basic argument to Pharoah was that they could not terminate a Hebrew mother's child once she had seen it was viable. I suggest it was up to them whether or not she ever saw the babes. (Remember why Moses was saved by his mother --she saw he was a goodly child.) The Pharoah accepted this argument from the midwives, which should hint at the power of an ancient midwife -- total control of the birth process. It was only in response to the powerful midwive's deception, that Pharoah resorted to publically order that all Hebrew baby males be tossed into the Nile.

Reference: Exodus 1:8 - Exodus 2:2
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Interesting, but Christian culture frowns upon euthanasia, even more messed up when its sanctioned by someone.
 
religion is a word, which can be looked at in a number of ways.
In our world there are many books we call holy which contain a wisdom which is assembled in cryptic fashion.

Using a particular book, or books, various people form groups basing their actions on things they have determined from reading said book(s).

So is religion then the book or is it the visible results said book has on the people who base their actions on their interpretations of what the book says?

To me a book is just that, a book. regardless of what it contains.

A religion is an organization, made of people, who have a definite code of conduct and behave in a particular way.

Long ago, various power seeking people saw the effect that certain books had on people, mentally.
Such books could influence what people believed and in turn what they then did.
Since all these books are written in such a cryptic fashion, the average person is then intellectually at the mercy of the scribe who has spent long hours deciphering said texts.

Most people are either too busy or too lazy to actually develop the mind which can handle such jargon.
(the same thing keeps lawyers employed the world over)
 
Thomas said:
People forever delight in informing me of the old chestnut "Some of the bloodiest wars in history have been fought over religion."

Sadly, after the last century, that is no longer the case, in fact far from it.

Now, political idealism is the big killer. Count the dead of the Soviet purges, the Third Reich, Pol Pot, Chairman Mao ... suddenly the Crusades are small beer by comparison.

And economics will replace politics (already we see countries who cannot allow banks to fail, because the effect will be too devastating) and whose foreign policy is determined by global business conglomerates ...

And energy will replace economics ...

Let us not forget chaps, that 30,000 children die in Africa every day, so that we can enjoy the comforts of our largely secular-orientated lifestyle. The fact that it's not on our doorstep is a convenience, but let us not kid ourselves, our lifestyle is toxic in more ways than one, for a large portion of the planet.

So I would say that the poisonous nature of post-industrial secular society is far, far more murderous than any religion. Religion has never been seen as a threat to the very future of the planet — secular society is.

Thomas
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In the cases you cited the state became "The State", the God of the people, with its attendant prophets, with their holy books and their religious celebrations.
They looked at the example of organized religion and just used that as a template.
So these examples are very religious in that sense.
The people involved were certainly very religious about everything, look at how they would line up at the tomb of Lenin.
How they revered the works of Marx and Engels and others (for example)

These days people worship their own self gratification and cash has become the God which bringeth all good blessings.
It is the cult of materialism/sensation.
So it boils down to which definition of religion you choose to highlight.
 
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