Coming to know God - Book or Spirit?

[citizenzen]

Then, how do we define enlightenment when we have not yet reached it?

In Buddhism, "the book" best plays a role as a map.

The map indicates that in this direction you will find a destination. It provides a incomplete description of the destination as well as possible routes and detours.

But you will never gain enlightenment just by studying the map. You have to take the journey.

Getting lost in detail, like wondering if the Buddha used his right or left foot to step on the rock at the edge of the stream, will only slow you down.

The route you take has never been taken before, nor will ever be taken again.

How do you know when you've reached the destination? This is one instance where faith plays a role in Buddhism. You'll just have to have faith that you will know.

 

[GlorytoGod]

Well, GlorytoGod, a lover always strive for the pleasure of his beloved. And the more one is in love, the more services he/ she presents out of love.

Accordingly, the more you love God, the more you strive for His pleasure, because a lover cannot find another more important, and exciting pleasure than meeting and connecting the beloved.

striving sounds to much like works to me, and I do not believe that God is interested in our good works. And I remember someone saying to me "There is nothing that we can do to make God love us more and nothing we can do to make God love us less, his love is unconditional".

I may understand, GlorytoGod, that you want to show me that God in your opinion is more loving than God in my opinion. However, brother, I feel you are somehow mistaken.

LOL, no not really.

Yet, brother, when I am saying that we should strive for God's pleasure, I simply meant that God wants us to be happy, and that happiness cant be achieved unless we cling to God, and strive for His pleasure. And believe me, brother, that I stand puzzled to find out that God's pleasure is the only right for our true happiness.

God wants us to come to Him because He wants us to be happy.

like I said in my last post, I think its more about letting go and receiving, which is kind of the opposite to striving, striving is all about me, letting go is all about him.

but whatever works for you

 

[dailogue is the best]

striving sounds to much like works to me, and I do not believe that God is interested in our good works. And I remember someone saying to me "There is nothing that we can do to make God love us more and nothing we can do to make God love us less, his love is unconditional."

How come that God is not interested in our good works!!!! Can you bring me a scripture which says that?!! Is " love thy neighbour" not a good work? Is not recommended by God?!!

God is the source of love. He hides our sins, and accepts repentance. Yet, how can you break the Words of such loving God? Dont you feel ashamed of deviating from the Way of such loving God? Dont you feel ashamed to break His Words, and then resort to Him when you are in need. Does such God deserve such treatment from us, we His weak Creatures?!!!

Go west, go east, GlorytoGod, you will find no truth but God. If you break His Words, you have to pay the price, believe me. This has nothing to do with revange. No, at all. It has to do with a loving God. He wants you back to His way. He wants to clean you. A father may punish his children for doing somthing bad or prevent them from somthing they love to educate them. The father acts out of love. Those punishment and preventing may embody the core of love.

So, as you see, GlorytoGod, God's love is unconditional. He is with us to support, to preserve, to lighten up the way, to guide, and to educate. Heroism is to know Him fully, and be with Him all the time in words and actions, for God wants us to spread goodness and love. He cares for our good deeds as a father cares for his children to be all good.

 

[Faithfulservant]

You would have to understand the concept of our being Saved by His grace through our Faith..

Hes not pleased by the works we do for Him Hes pleased in our Faith in Him.. and good works being a product of or a a natural occurance of faith.. it all comes together.. but its not the good works that are pleasing to Him.
"By grace are ye saved through faith…it is the gift of God; not of works lest any man should boast" Eph. 2:8,9

He did say that our righteousness or good deeds are as filthy rags in the book of Isa

"There is none that doeth good, no not one…" Rom.3:12

"It is not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us" Titus. 3:5

but the works we do that are pure of heart He will honor and he says that in malachi

 

[GlorytoGod]

You would have to understand the concept of our being Saved by His grace through our Faith..

Hes not pleased by the works we do for Him Hes pleased in our Faith in Him.. and good works being a product of or a a natural occurance of faith.. it all comes together.. but its not the good works that are pleasing to Him.
"By grace are ye saved through faith…it is the gift of God; not of works lest any man should boast" Eph. 2:8,9

He did say that our righteousness or good deeds are as filthy rags in the book of Isa

"There is none that doeth good, no not one…" Rom.3:12

"It is not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us" Titus. 3:5

but the works we do that are pure of heart He will honor and he says that in malachi

Nice post, thanks Faithfulservant

 

[mee]

We can read scripture everyday of our lives, but I think we need to experience G-d deep with ourselves, and not just read about Him in a book. You can only get so much information from scripture, and then the question remains - How accurate is that information? God deals with the heart, and it is in our hearts that He reveals himself.

I think a persons theology is pretty much useless in the grand scheme of things. I personally believe that a persons condition of heart is what matters most. When Christ enters the heart of man, He changes them from the inside out. This is true repentance, and worship - It is when we allow His Spirit to manifest within ourselves, and honor that Spirit in all we do.

Too many people put far too much stock in intellectual pursuits, when God deals with the heart. Far too many place more faith in scripture, and far too little in the Spirit. It might even be suggested that this is idolatry in and of itself [IMO]. You can worship a book, or you can worship God and His son who make their dwelling in the heart of man as Spirit/Love.

Don't get me wrong; I'm not suggesting that we quit reading scripture. I'm merely suggesting that God is to be experienced and not just read about.

2Ti 3:16 All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness,
2Ti 3:17 that the man of God may be competent, equipped for every good work.

But it is also written ....

Joh 5:39 You search the Scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life; and it is they that bear witness about me,
Joh 5:40 yet you refuse to come to me that you may have life.
Joh 5:41 I do not receive glory from people.
Joh 5:42 But I know that you do not have the love of God within you.

It isn't scripture that saves us, but rather the Spirit of Christ who makes His dwelling in those who desire righteousness.


GK

And as the good book says , in luke 9;35 THIS IS MY SON
listen to him.

and its all in the bible .


and taking in knowledge about the true God JEHOVAH and his son JESUS CHRIST, is what we should be doing , and its all in that good book the bible .

This means everlasting life, their taking in knowledge of you, the only true God, and of the one whom you sent forth, Jesus Christ. john 17;3

 

[citizenzen]

Hes not pleased by the works we do for Him Hes pleased in our Faith in Him...

I'd always wondered why God wouldn't be interested in "good work" and Faithfulservant may have given me a new interpretation.

If people do "works" for the reason of pleasing God or creating good karma then it is self-centered and will not produce a desired effect.

Genuine good work is a direct expression of God's love or Prajnaparamita, and He digs that very much.

 

[Dondi]

I'd always wondered why God wouldn't be interested in "good work" and Faithfulservant may have given me a new interpretation.

If people do "works" for the reason of pleasing God or creating good karma then it is self-centered and will not produce a desired effect.

Genuine good work is a direct expression of God's love or Prajnaparamita, and He digs that very much.

Well this is why most Protestants reject 'good works' as a means of salvation. It puts the pressure in man to somehow earn his salvation and if he can earn it then why the need for God to save him? The motivation would not then be pure for the 'good works' have an ulterior motive.

However, if God offers salvation as a gift, then our good works would flow more freely, as our motives would change.

But it also sometimes has the backlash of making Christians lazy.

 

[citizenzen]

But it also sometimes has the backlash of making Christians lazy.

That's why Buddhists hit each other so much.

 

[dailogue is the best]

You would have to understand the concept of our being Saved by His grace through our Faith..

Saved by Faith is something that we have no difference about. But, which faith? What's the kind of that faith? That what we differ about, and what I m going to explain later.

Hes not pleased by the works we do for Him Hes pleased in our Faith in Him.. and good works being a product of or a a natural occurance of faith.. it all comes together.. but its not the good works that are pleasing to Him.
"By grace are ye saved through faith…it is the gift of God; not of works lest any man should boast" Eph. 2:8,9

Untill now, I second you. Good works comes as a natural existence of faith. The more you are faithful, the more you do good. In other words, the more you love God, the more you move to please Him. It comes naturally. Love flows from a loving heart towards His beloved. Even what seems very hard to do one day becomes very easy to do for the sake of the beloved.

Accordingly, pleasing God by doing good is to show how your love is true, sincere and deep. And we all know that a true love stands the test of time, and breaks all the barriers, and resists all the temptation.

God for sure see in all these good works a power of true love, a fountain of strong faith.

But to say that God is not interested in good works is not true. God is proud of His true lovers who turn their love into actions...who ligten up the darkness of this world by a sincere love. God is interested in good works that stems from a loving heart, and I hope am not exagerating if I say that your position to God is measured by your good works...how much you do good to His creatures, be it persons, animals, plants or objects.

I should add that we should never ever boast of doing good because simply it is that faith that lightens up the way for us to do so. Hence, thank you God without account.

He did say that our righteousness or good deeds are as filthy rags in the book of Isa
"There is none that doeth good, no not one…" Rom.3:12
"It is not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us" Titus. 3:5
but the works we do that are pure of heart He will honor and he says that in malachi

The message of these scriptures are clear. Those scriptures dont diminish the importance of our good deeds. They simply show that submissivness, faithfulness and devotion to the only one God should be the real intention behind doing any good. A heart which is full of love is the director of any loving servant.

For me, to say that we are going to be saved by our works is really impolite behaviour that we have to feel disgraced to even think about. We are weak creatures that no matter how we strive for doing good we remain full of mistakes that we do from now and then. Yet, He never expel us from His mercy. That's why, no matter how much we do good, we should always bow down to Him and say:" Oh, my Lord, we strive to do good and please You and prove our love to You.Yet, we are weak creatures, we have disobeyed you, and gave control to our egos. My Lord, we know that you know what is hidden, and you know how much we love. Please, God, dont deprive us from Your mercy. Please, accept our deeds by your mercy and make us straight in what You love."

 

[mee]

Every lover of righteousness who reads the inspired Scriptures and who truly comes to “know” with understanding the full meaning of Jehovah’s name
(Ps 9:9, 10; 91:14; Jer 16:21) has every reason, therefore, to love and bless that name
(Ps 72:18-20; 119:132; Heb 6:10),

praise and exalt it (Ps 7:17; Isa 25:1; Heb 13:15),

fear and sanctify it (Ne 1:11; Mal 2:4-6; 3:16-18; Mt 6:9),

trust in it (Ps 33:21; Pr 18:10),