"Smorgasbord" Religion, Being of a Faith, and the Personal Journey

[Tao_Equus]

"what am I"... Someone who seems to be very, trying.... Trying to look for something, something that isn't there....... But really wishes it was.

For some, when we give up looking, we find what we are in need of... Peace and rest..... Less of this stress and nonsense... OH where do I fit in?! What are the answers to these questions that are really not even worth asking....... Not looking to fit in, but just being, that's the life for me.... These roads of many, they all twist and turn and wind.... And none of them are worth the effort it takes to walk down them.... They all lead to nowhere.

Alex the existentialist!! Whoever would have thought it!!? It suits you

 

[17th Angel]

Why thank you stranger.

If the glove fits an all... Since I sat down on the path and realised it was just a circle, I have become rested and well. Putting back on weight and confidence and feeling whole, lol... A life spent searching isn't a life spent living. :/

 

[nativeastral]

finding the macrocosm in the microcosm
l and l as rastafari may say

 

[mee]

"These roads of many, they all twist and turn and wind.... And none of them are worth the effort it takes to walk down them.... They all lead to nowhere.

Go in through the narrow gate; because broad and spacious is the road leading off into destruction, and many are the ones going in through it; whereas narrow is the gate and cramped the road leading off into life, and few are the ones finding it. matthew 7;13;14



that narrow road leads to life everlasting , but that broad road will only end in tears .


just because many are on that broad road does not mean that it is the right road , and just because that narrow road is a bit cramped does not mean that it will not lead to life .


choices choices choices


And if the righteous [man] is being saved with difficulty, where will the ungodly [man] and the sinner make a showing?” 1 PETER 4;18

 

[path_of_one]

To arthra-

Thank you for sharing your story. I agree that an armchair approach to religion is not very useful, at least for me. I've done more than the armchair, but I can't seem to find a community (so far) where on a small group level, I am acceptable to others. That's what I'm beginning to wonder about...

To SG-

Yes, it resonates. So why do so many find a community within Christianity? It seems many people are able to just blend right in somewhere, whereas I am not, no matter how long or hard I try... What about your experience? Do you feel the need for a community or are you happy as SG, with whatever your own ideas are?

To nativeastral-

My name was chosen out of that solitary path, yes, but also as I feel there is One Divine, and I am following a path to unify with It. I would be classified as a panentheist (God in and through and beyond all things). And I'm with you with believing that morals should be more common, though when we put things into perspective, humanity as a whole seems to perhaps be moving back towards compassion. To me, it appears we were fairly in tune with each other and nature as foragers (but were constrained by the smallness of our social and environmental group), things got progressively worse after the dawn of agriculture, but now we have the potential to return to compassion and sustainability, but in a more global fashion... that is, having grown intellectually and technologically (and literally, socially)- we have the opportunity to grow spiritually and truly become something, as a whole, more unified with the Divine.

 

[path_of_one]

Be a straightforward round peg that goes into one of those common or garden round pegs? That isn't you though is it? You is what you is PoO! You’re a church of one, so you need to work on that wish thing, I think! Can you be a member of several communities, to help better fulfil your liking of community? Does membership of one exclude you from another?

LOL- good perspective, Snoopy. Perhaps it is my attachment to a sense of belonging that I need to work on further. I don't feel this nearly so much when I am at home in the mountains, near my grove. I feel like the trees and animals are my congregation, if that makes any sense. But in the city... I feel lonely. Odd, isn't it?

I think part of my problem is that membership in several groups might work very well for me, but in Christianity they often seen membership in non-Christian groups as exclusionary from Christian groups and vice versa. I think this is where I feel dishonest or out of place is coming from.

Have far is too far for you? I thought Americans drove across two states to buy groceries. I have to drive for an hour to my “place of community” and to me, this is not exactly local…(Not to promote but only to assist)...I would guess someone like yourself knows how to find stuff, but is this of any help? : (scroll down to see the map)

World Buddhist Directory - Presented by BuddhaNet.Net

LOL! Well, in California where I will soon reside full time again, our little mountain town is only about 1500 people. We're about 20-30 minutes from the nearest gas station and grocery store. I'm perhaps 45-60 minutes from the nearest UU church and I am not sure about the Quaker meeting- I think about the same. The nearest Druidic group is 3 hours from me!

I will look into the Buddhist thing... I think they have temples as close as 60-75 minutes away (was asking my aunt about this). I'm actually very excited as I've never been to a Buddhist temple and am visiting the Lake Shrine Temple this week with my aunt. A lot of Buddhism (and particularly Zen aesthetics and philosophy) has always resonated with me, so I'm looking forward to seeing how I feel/think once there.

I think I have a lot of questions about how Buddhism would integrate with my beliefs about Christ- how, in practice, I would be received by other Buddhists if I were to go to retreats or such with them. Perhaps I need to start a thread on our Buddhism board.

When I first found out what my “faith” was about (stop me if I’ve said this before) I could have rejected what I was told or been knocked out by the revelatory nature of it (as two likely options). Actually what I found was that, in essence, my world view was the world view of this faith, so I was already xxx, just didn’t know it, just didn’t have the badge. I value it highly and it relates completely as my reference.

I think aside from the issue of God and Christ, which I understand in a non-mainstream way to begin with, Buddhism is very much a worldview that resonates with my own experience and conclusions. I've studied it for a number of years, but have been reading Thich Nhat Hanh's The Heart of the Buddha's Teaching, and I'm just nodding and nodding. I find nothing I disagree with. Of course, no doubt, I am interpreting it differently than other Buddhists might. But I suspect that is a universal attribute of religion- the followers diverge on the details of interpretation, particularly any religion that values intellectual and spiritual freedom and personal responsibility for one's journey.

Not directly. The other shore for me is mine alone to realise. Guidance is there should it be requested.

s.

I think partially what is curious to me is the difference between religions which seem to emphasize individual transcendence, with the support of community, versus group transcendence. For example, the notion in Christianity of the members being part of the Body of Christ- that the group transcends together- rather than the church being the support for the individual (though for many, it is). I don't know where I'm going with this... I am rambling.

 

[path_of_one]

POO-OP, (giggles... the tao that can be named is not the real tao),

Hee!

Perhaps you do have a personal mission to reconcile your values with value systems, or religions. Perhaps also none are fully adopted in their entirety for you because you are only interested in what they confirm about your own senses as perceived by you. Now that seems an obvious statement but its ramifications run so deep into the psyche and areas of behaviour that are rarely applied consciously, let alone logically, that it is easy to turn a blind eye to them. But they matter, if the individual is to be fully self-honest.

I agree. I am interested in religion for many reasons, and not only what they confirm for me, but I certainly "bounce" ideas off my own experience. To be honest, any other way I try to think makes no sense to me (emotionally and spiritually, as well as intellectually) and feels like I'm trying on another person's clothing. That is, I could *say* for years and diligently try to believe that the earth was made 7000 years ago, but I was unable to do this even when I was 11 or 12. I just felt like it was a lie compared to my experience and the obvious data that is there. (Sorry, conservative folks- I am what I am).

I am interested in religions for many reasons... Intellectually, as a social scientist, they are some of the most complex and interesting things people do. They are also the baseline for order without law or government, sustainability and medicine without science. There is way more encapsulated in the old religious traditions, all the way back to shamanic religions, than most modern people realize. For this, they deserve my attention and respect.

In my spiritual and personal life, they are a doorway. I don't think it's all about me and my senses, because I have seen how I can manipulate "me" and my body and attain different consciousness, focus, and so forth-- with the assistance of religion. Thing is, many different religious practices seem to work equally well or poorly, from my experience.

I accept my ideas about the universe in general as transitory and imperfect (or should I say, grossly inaccurate). But what I am after is the sense of unity with all life, with all that is in the universe, and a melting away of my egoic "self". I have experienced this before and it changes my life. What I want is to increasingly focus my consciousness in this direction until my entire life and being is consumed with unity and compassion for other beings. I call that unity "God", or "The Divine One" (which I feel is more apt, fewer connotations). Perhaps it's a bad term for something like that. But whatever you call It, I've experienced it multiple times and I've been on this journey since I was a wee P-O-O.

I think what I am finding is that while it is possible to follow this path in a solitary fashion, it would be beneficial to find a community. Communal energy/power toward the highest potentials in humanity has a way of propelling everyone forward toward that "farthest shore" in a way that a singular existence does not. Just as communal anger, hatred, or fear has the capacity to suck people in as well and takes much struggling against that current to stay in peace and love.

It teaches the mind to not view doubt as a valid tool of human cognition but as an enemy to be overcome. Islam is a good example in this case as it does not even attempt to disguise what it is doing.

That is very interesting. I see doubt as my friend. Doubt keeps me honest with myself and forces me to look seriously at my assumptions.

In your case I see someone whom has embraced the Christian doctrine from such a young age that it would take you enormous effort to untangle it from your core self.

I wouldn't say that- I wasn't raised with the doctrine and it has always felt foreign. That's what I mean by feeling dishonest with other Christians- most of my ideas I could never wrestle into agreement with standard doctrines about what God is, who Christ is, etc. etc. It is more that I experience this being I call Christ, that brings to me the essence of our highest potential as humans and helps me to unify with the Divine. I experience this being personally, and as such can say I feel delivered or saved from my egoic self by this being. But then the work is mine to choose the work to stay true to a course of transcendence. I feel that Jesus' teachings are a way to "light my path." I feel that God is undefinable, and while I can experience It, I cannot know God. I guess you could say I'm honest about the distinction between what I feel/experience/think and what I know. I don't know much of anything about anything.

Perhaps it would be an interesting exercise for you to begin to relate, in some way, your education in anthropology to a study of biology and the intricate evolutionary stories that enabled and make life possible for humanity today. Not just a superficial "documentary" toe dip, but a full thesis level immersion.

Biological anthropology and human evolution was one of my sub-specialty areas for my BA. I've actually taught human evolution for years. I find it fascinating. But I don't feel like I am a human being. I feel like I am something inhabiting the vehicle of a human being.

My sense of self has always been disjointed in this way. I find my own body, brain, and so forth, fascinating in all its strangeness. It took me until I was about 10 to even really grasp that my body had limits. Didn't seem right.

Find the 10s of 1000s of organisms living in their vast cities beneath your feet. And find out how they all inter-relate in a far from stable and highly precarious equilibrium. I think from what little I know about you that you would declare 'god' many times on such a journey. It is I think currently beyond you to truly cast aside what is after all a self embraced reliance on the metaphors of religion.

I think its the terminology... To me, I experience a profound sense of union with the Divine when I choose consciousness of the vastness of being-ness, of life (which to me, goes beyond the scientific way of thinking about it- I'm closer to an animistic view). I don't think God upholds or creates being-ness. I think God is creativity and equilibrium and evolution. The processes are the Divine to me, and are experienced as such when I choose awareness of it. God is not a Being who does stuff, God is the doing of stuff. I think I'm reluctant to give up the term, because then aren't you just denying the diversity of how humans could think about the Divine?

I think many people are afraid to be without religion. Usually they are good people who use it ostensibly as a mechanism to believe in hope.

I'm not afraid to be without religion. I don't believe in a heaven or hell, outside of states of mind/being. What is there to fear? That's my outlook. And it isn't that I think religion is the hope of everything. Religion has been the cause of some of the best and worst in humanity- it is a hope as much as it is a cause of suffering. It's that I think a sense of communal spiritual practice toward the goal of transcendence or enlightenment has an increased power that propels those involved on their paths. Solitary practice is missing this, both in our capacity to receive and our capacity to give.

But beyond that, as an atheist who's atheism could not exist without extensive personal enquiry into self and nature, nature as and of itself is still profoundly wondrous and beautiful. Just not fluffy pink, (very often).

Atheism doesn't work for me because it generally depends on the Christian notion of God to begin with, in order to deny it. Most of my colleagues are atheists, and I've recognized that they are generally still very tied to Western concepts of God, self, divine, etc. I don't want to be tied to any of these concepts; I want to transcend them. I don't want to say "God is this or that" but rather "The Divine Is" and leave it as an experience. And I entirely agree about nature... I think that nature "as and of itself" is the Divine made manifest (not as a creation, but as a ephemeral beauty that reveals Its eternal beauty). This stuff is hard to explain.

I think what I'm looking for is a community that practices meditation and ceremony together with the purpose of bringing forth this type of transcendent consciousness in everyday life. I don't care much about the ideas, if the community is accepting of every person where they are at in their ideas. It's the importance of a sense of moving toward transcendence together that resonates with me, and the capacity to talk to individuals and be accepted for who I am and what I experience, without pressure to think a particular way.

I find that pressure exists in all the Christian groups I've tried, once you get down to a level where everyone talks to each other... and it also exists in atheism. In fact, it exists as much in atheism (from my experience) as it does in Christianity.

Growing up seeing religion all around as something valued by many yet used by others to indiscriminately bomb civilians is a good stimulus into an appraisal of religion as too personalised to have universal cause. But by the application of biology it is does have human universality. Religious thought is of itself a product of the human animal, a social animal, with all the implications that brings.

Yes, but having studied cultural anthropology, I can also see that religion is what kept small-scale societies sustainable for thousands of years, that allowed society without governmental power. I think the problem is not religion, per se, but rather that humans evolved to be in groups of about 30-100 and we are in groups of millions and billions. We didn't evolve for this, and I think it is that our spirituality is behind our social and technological progress that causes religion to be used in such ways. Religion is just another social institution- one that can be helpful or harmful, useful or not. The Spirit and connection to the Divine is something else entirely. Religion can hinder or help this connection, just as one's family, government, economy and so forth can. That's my current view, at any rate.

So try being atheist for a while! When you find yourself explaining things in terms of god try to stop yourself, and explain it without the 'prop'. Its still beautiful.


PS. with all integrity, some times swear words are deemed as linguistic 'props' or 'gap-fillers'. Religion too can be a bit like that where it is used to fill a fundamental gap or as a 'prop' to support an idea, concept, belief or whatever. Usually such a religious prop does not stand up to real scrutiny.

I believe life is beautiful no matter which way you slice your thought process- but then, it's all a part of the Divine, for me. It isn't a "prop" so much as a struggle to express something that goes beyond the expressible. The label of "atheism" I find misleading as much as anything... it wouldn't be a label that "fits" any more than the labels I am apparently using. There seems to be the same diversity within atheism you find within religion... as 20% of US atheists recently said they believed in some form of God or were unsure that God didn't exist (PEW foundation) and 25% of Christians were unsure God existed. We all want a label, a category, I suppose and the labels are inaccurate and too fuzzy to be useful.

I don't care about the label; people can call me what they like. But I do care about a sense of community dedicated to assisting one another toward transcendence- kicking the egoic self to the curb and working toward a consciousness of compassion. So far, the atheists just haven't offered that...

 

[seattlegal]

To SG-

Yes, it resonates. So why do so many find a community within Christianity? It seems many people are able to just blend right in somewhere, whereas I am not, no matter how long or hard I try... What about your experience? Do you feel the need for a community or are you happy as SG, with whatever your own ideas are?

My communal spiritual practice really doesn't involve a regular congregation or a set schedule of any sort. We just sort of run into each other at opportune times, usually unplanned, and discuss spiritual things, and/or set up a meeting time/place and invite whomever comes to mind. I really feel quite comfortable with that. These types of meetings usually are the most spiritually uplifting and satisfying for me.

Hey, we are all human beings, and we're all in the same boat. We are all also all individuals. Many of the people I meet with or have impromptu spiritual discussions with have different perspectives and beliefs than I do, but we have great discussion and come away with more than what we came with. That is what makes it so spiritually rewarding for me.

 

[path_of_one]

To Nick A-

Thank you for sharing your story, Nick, and for your honesty about your life and how you wound up where you are. I think what I am contemplating is partially the idea of "society." We can use the term generally, but then, we are using it as we do "culture"- as a heuristic tool. It isn't a thing, but rather a thought. Really, humanity has no "society" but rather lots of overlapping groups based on our concept of belonging. I think what I'm looking for is a collection of individuals that can practice as a supportive community in what you describe as a mutual effort toward making silk purses. I think there is a power in the collective that is not found in the individual (that concept of the "Kingdom of Heaven among us")- this has the capacity to heal the collective in a meaningful way. It isn't that I don't think the individual matters- I do think "I" matter whether or not I find a community. But I think my transcendent process and, dare I say, that of humanity and the earth in general, is accelerated when like practices with like. We see this in reverse all the time- the media plays on the fears, unhealthy desires, and so forth in the Western world and accelerates us toward poor decision-making and existence without awareness.

To Brian-

Yes- I am looking for that respect for and appreciation of spirituality and the Divine, with acceptance for people's ideas as "where they are" rather than "someone has the answer." Minus the dope.

To Luna-

I find that in church practice, the Episcopal church is very good for me. What is more difficult is conflict within the congregation. Diversity in belief is good, but conflict is difficult. I think sometimes the congregation almost gets in the way of the church, if that makes any sense. The service, priest, and so forth in the church I go to in California is wonderful. But the congregation in the church I go to has always been divided between conservatism and liberalism, and neither side seems very accepting. There are frequent skirmishes and tussles about gay marriage and so forth that have sometimes erupted into kicking the priest out for being "too liberal." I find such disruption to also be disrupting to the energy that would otherwise propel everyone forward in compassion and understanding, and it makes me wary of sharing too much about my own ideas in smaller groups, as I know the acceptance of diversity varies considerably by individual there. I wish everyone could just accept each person where they are at and work mutually toward compassion for each other... Without this, I feel that edge to the congregation each time I go, and it takes something away from the overall ceremony that is meant to connect us with the Divine and with each other...

I may look into UU. My beliefs are quite aligned with UU, which I've known for a long while, but I think my concern is that I love a sense of tradition- ancient tradition. Perhaps it is a superficial thing, but to me there is something lovely about connecting with the "saints" of any tradition through delving into traditional practice. I feel a great sense of connection to my ancestors and the past when I sing the old hymns or there is bagpipe mass. Something in my spirit connects to that wider sense of family.

To mee-

I appreciate what you're saying, mee, but what I'm saying is that whether I agree with another person's doctrine or forge my own- it's all human ideas. The Bible was written by humans and is interpreted by humans. We can be inspired by the Spirit but I do not believe any of us channels God directly and should be blindly followed. What God requires of us in Christianity varies greatly by denomination, which indicates to me that humans are fairly limited in our ability to ascertain this and/or humans intepret in ways that suit their needs for their time. That's not necessarily a bad thing in my book, but it also isn't very helpful to me on the path I'm on now.

 

[lunamoth]

It's very true Path that the division over homosexuality is hurting our congregations and keeping us from our mission of reconciliation.

I think, however, that even a few individuals who refuse to let themselves get too distracted by this issue and focus instead on being a community of healing, support to each other and outreach to the world, can do a lot to turn their congregation around.

 

[path_of_one]

I wrote a long post here yesterday in reply to ur OP, but my machine took the knock...

Francis, thank you for being willing to re-write it. This was very uplifting, and as always, a bit humorous as well.

I also think that most religions I have encountered have placed varying degrees of emphasis on this "labelling" process, and most of them also suggest to a practitioner that a practitioner should give up other, alternative or erroneous views to become "more" in the eyes of the faith...

I rail against this. I dislike labels to start with, and the more investment one is told to give them, the more I find I dislike them. In fact, I am rather rebellious by nature, which makes me not very good at deferring to authority without reason in any circumstance. I was raised to question everything, and being told to do otherwise rubs me the wrong way.

Most people have neither the time money or the inclination to take things further, to commit, to become adherents, to live the life 24/7.

Thing is, I love depth. In everything I just love to soak up experiences and information and life itself. If I could afford it, I would study stuff forever. Certainly lots of religious stuff, but also physics and art. I'd get 3 or 4 doctorates for the heck of it, just to experience the process of learning without the pressure to perform and to earn money at the end. And I'd deeply study at least Buddhism, Christianity (go through seminary just to learn the ins and outs), and more on indigenous shamanic religions. But also just more on all of the religions. I find it fascinating.

That said, I want depth. Maybe my problem is that I want depth in everything, which is more than ones lifetime affords you.

That the noble, hopeful, socially aware, compassionate parts stick- I see that as a good thing.

I hope this as well.

If everyone was a monk, who would bring us alms?

True. It's not that I feel obligated to become the monk. It's more like a deep-seated fire that keeps getting bigger. Not to literally become a monk (married, all that) but to deepen my sense of unity and compassion to that extent.

sometimes we "eclectic" types are only so because we do not want to give up anything which we have become attached to, and for those- like myself- who were conditioned to accept a specific philosophy at a young age such roots run deep- so deep that it's difficult to rid oneself of them and stand apart from them.

Yep. I had to think long and hard before giving up certain doctrinal ideas completely, because I had to ask myself was I just uncomfortable with them, or did I really feel they are not beneficial or are misleading/inaccurate. I try to be honest with myself.

I am honest enough to say, for example, that I am not a vegetarian because right now I am too lazy and gluttonous to give up meat. I believe it is the right thing to do, but I like pork and salmon and shrimp and beef a lot. I compromise by buying organic free-range and whatnot.

As for those religious roots, I do sometimes wonder how much of it all is my hang-up with the labels. Is my God resembling the average Christian God at all? But does it have to? I sometimes wonder what would happen if I just gave up on all the labels, but when I create my own people get confused during conversation. I just keep wondering- if I mostly think like a Buddhist, but use Christian labels and practice- does that help me or others at all? Or harm? Or is it neutral? Is the confusion good for moving beyond form?

I think we all use props- labels, shorthand, identify with this and that for various reasons, yet so long as the reason is not to delude others or harm others, why worry what everyone else thinks?

I think I just grow tired with explaining myself. And I fear I'm "rocking the boat" in groups of people that aren't ready or willing to be rocked. I'd like to find a group that rocks the boat with me. I find doubt, questioning, probing my ideas to be beneficial.

If everyone did as they were told and stuck with the religion they were born in there would be no buddhism, no christianity. Siddhartha would have been a ksatriya and died in battle, Jesus would have become a better Jew. If what came before suited them they would have stuck with it. They did not. That should tell you something.

That's true. I find that inspiring. As long as we don't start drinking the Kool-Aid or gathering minions, so to speak, I guess we're doing OK.

but when is the way never not the way?

Good point, from my point of view.

sometimes we walk along smooth, litter free pavements, sometimes we have to hack a path through the undergrowth for ourselves.

Ah, a litter free sidewalk. I think I've never trodden that path, even when I've tried. I seem destined to carry the machete. I guess I just find it tiring at times.

I say all I say as... I too have yearned for community, a collective of like minded beings to learn from, to journey with, yet such delusions rapidly dissapate when I am confronted with the actuality of others.

That's how I feel. I've felt homesick for somewhere/something I don't even know since I was a very little girl. I keep trying to find it, unsuccessfully. I feel out of place most of the time, and while I came to accept it and even generally revel in a relatively solitary existence, I sometimes feel lonely and homesick.

I'm very sensitive to the emotions and energy of other people. And this is part of the problem. Coming face to face with the reality of a congregation, for example, generally brings me a fight to dial down confusion and negativity. I feel more pain and anger and fear from groups of people than I feel peace and joy and compassion. That saddens me. I want to find a group of folks that I can share peace and joy with, and mutually replenish ourselves. So far, the closest I've gotten is groups of trees. Which aren't very human like, but at least the energy is upbeat and deeply loving to me.

I find the majority, however well meaning their intentions, often miss the point, wander off on tangents, are simply not committed to the high ideals they say they possess; their ambitions artifice, the group-speak of blind sheep.

Blunt, and seemingly judgemental, but probably accurate. I just feel like most people are sleep-walking through a nightmare and don't realize it. The energy and emotions are predominantly unbeneficial, but everyone is too caught up in the details to notice. That's how I have been every time I tried, in my younger years, to conform to this or that.

I decided, long ago, that I would choose my own way. You have to bravely do the same and be a "solitary realizer" (lol) or be prepared to cut off your arms and legs to fit into other people's boxes. It's not a nice choice, but that's your choice.

I don't care much about finding a religion as much as a community. I don't know if it's possible, but I try to have hope-- to find a community, in person, that may all be solitary realizers or not, but is supportive and positive- in which at least most are conscious of their potential to co-create this world, and determined to do it in a compassionate and honest way, to work on their flaws one by one and to rejoice in their successes. Not to beat themselves up incessantly, nor to focus on judging others... but just to swim toward transcendance and offer a life-ring here and there when needed, a helping hand, a shout of encouragement.

I found I was unable to chop off my arms and legs. I already tried that a few times years ago, and fortunately was unable. It seems whether I am lonely or not, I am unable to be other than what I am at this moment.

 

[path_of_one]

1: Have I found a "home?" If home is a congregation or some other roughly like-minded group, I would have to say "no." About the closest I would say is here at CR / InterFaith. Here I feel that certain freedom that comes with anonymity that allows me to freely speak my mind, something I feel I must reserve in the real world.

But then, I have not felt "at home" since I could remember at the age of 5. I knew even then, with seriously limited religious indoctrination, that this existence is not where I belong. This existence is just a little side trip, a little vacation, a little boarding school...

Yeah, that's how I feel. I've never felt "home" here and yet I feel that the earth is a beautiful place. I feel more deeply connected to the trees and ocean and animals and whatnot than people... I have to work toward relating to people. I think that's partly why I chose to study them- it's a real challenge. But I suppose I just want a group where I feel "home away from home" and the only thing I have is my family. Now, I feel incredibly blessed that I feel that in my close family, as many do not have even that. Maybe I should just make my church the handful of people who accept me for me, and my journey for what it is, and leave it at that... but it seems some sort of tradition would be valuable for something. I tend to think there is something of value in these traditions that have encapsulated years of the human experience and quest for transcendence... I just can't buy into the idea that just one of them is "THE way," you know?

4: Maybe it's just my personality type, but I've got a pretty serious loner streak in me. Yes, I do long for the company of others from time to time, but I can and have gone for extended periods with only myself and critters (pets and not) for company.

I feel my desire for company is fulfilled with my dogs and horse and trees. I have few friends, in part due to interests most people find boring, but I have no problem making friendly acquintances everywhere. I think that because I'm introverted, I often feel very comfortable (most comfortable, to be honest, most of the time) with animals and plants. They're my friends. I feel like I understand them, and they understand me. And there are a few places where it feels like there are nature spirits and the trees are truly alive if you know what I mean- they have a sense of spirit and personality. And these places feel very full and lively and comforting. I've been in the city working alone for most of the last 7 months, so maybe I just feel disjointed without my usual "company."

I keep wondering, though, if I am missing something there? I am a human being for some sort of reason... so why do I feel so uncompelled to relate to human beings most of the time? Dogs and horses and trees are just so much easier and nicer.

Yet, I feel very, very much like I want to help people. I feel a lot of human suffering in the world. It's almost like I view us, collectively, as Gaia's naughty child. Except that our naughtiness is not cute and it is very harmful to other beings and each other.

I keep wishing to find a face-to-face group that can work toward peace and love. It seems like that would bring with it an immense amount of positive work and energy for each person, for the group, and even for the world. So far, the closest I get is with my husband and my mother, sister, and aunt. A church of 5, each of whom is an individualist with no set religion. LOL

5: Do I feel out of place? I think I feel contrary enough that I know I am not "normal" or "traditional," but I'm not sure I would call that "out of place." Maybe it is.

I feel profoundly "not at home" in this life, but I feel very much in the right place when I am out in nature. I just feel very out of place in society. Like when I am "behaving myself" socially and following norms and standards, I am playing a role. I really started to think of myself as acting when I began public elementary school. I would think "This is the custom. This person says/does this, and then they expect me to do/say that, and so on." But it felt like wearing a mask and still does. I wish I could really connect with people without all this junk in the way.

6: I handle it by distancing myself. It's not something I would recommend for a gregarious and social person, but I do see similarities with monastics. I used to joke with myself about being a monk in training...making me a "monkee."

LOL- yes, I do the same. But do you ever wonder if you're missing something? I mean, even the Buddhist monks encourage practicing in a sangha, and the Christians have their nunneries.

8: Imperfections in the community? Ummm, well, yeah...see the previous answer. I don't really know how perfection can be born from imperfection, perfection is more a destination to strive for. I don't know, tomorrow I may learn otherwise.

Perhaps we just forgot how to be perfect, but once were. I don't know.

The trouble with being true to myself is that myself is still learning, and myself is decidedly non-traditional...yet from my perspective I am more true to the essence of what the original point Christianity that Jesus taught was. (I lean heavily towards the words of Solomon in this, reinforced by Paul)

I feel I am true, as much as I can be, to the essence of Jesus' teachings as I have them, through the Gospels. The problem seems to come in that Jesus didn't talk about a whole lot of stuff that Christians generated, I am unsure of what to do with the rest of the Bible, and much of the stuff Jesus did talk about seems misinterpreted in popular doctrine when you head in with any knowledge of Jewish ideas. But that's all a discussion for another day. Suffice it to say it makes me quite non-traditional and causes a good deal of this angst. LOL

Once upon a time I was certain I knew what was right, then I found I wasn't as right as I thought I was. Now that I am not as certain, I find a freedom that allows me to listen and learn, as well as a freedom to forgive myself and others.

I tend to think my journey is right, but not for everyone. But the results seem positive in my life, bringing peace and love and all that hippie goodness, so I keep truckin'. My ideas- who knows? LOL I tend to think of all my ideas not as right/wrong, but useful/beneficial or not or neutral. An idea can be really wrong and still really useful. I think humans are too limited in our capacity to have the right ideas about most things, but we can develop a right awareness or consciousness... and that seems useful and beneficial.

You are as you should be, Path, and you are a wonderful and blessed person because of it. Fear not, you are a blessing to others here, others like me...we are all blessed by your presence here.

Aw, thanks Juan.

You guys are a blessing to me, too, and alleviate much of my loneliness and boredom!

 

[path_of_one]

You sound like you might be an Interfaith kind of person. Had you considered becoming a member of an online Interfaith discussion group?....

Where ever would such a website be???

 

[path_of_one]

To Alex-

Since I sat down on the path and realised it was just a circle, I have become rested and well. Putting back on weight and confidence and feeling whole, lol... A life spent searching isn't a life spent living. :/

That's a rather lovely sentiment.

I would wager from your perspective, I should be happy that I can sense a community with my dogs and plants and a handful of folks I love... and just enjoy, as my dogs do-- a nice nap in the sun, cold water, and a long walk.

And perhaps I should. But part of what keeps me questioning are the folks on this board- those who talk about the importance of the communal- as Luna was discussing.

But is all the angst I feel when I strive for this and search an indication of its proper place in my life, or is it an indication of the need to move beyond it?

Is it more that my ego desires to be alone, and so I should strive to submit the "self" to a community of some sort? Or is it that my ego desires to be with others and belong, and so I should strive to be happy with being solitary and let go of my attachment to community? Or is there some other thing going on?

To Dream-

I don't think it is the ego to think there is an elegant, simple answer. I think we want things complicated (normally) as humans because complicated means we can differentiate ourselves from others and create exclusionary groups based on our perceived differences. We must like complicated, because we form a whole lot of complicated religions, philosophies, governments, and so forth.

I have long been moving toward thinking most or all of our ideas as human beings are inaccurate and mostly useless. It just seems simpler to me than that. Love other beings, including yourself and including all those you may not even see or know exist. The end. Just expansion of our "self" to understand we are a happenstance that depends on everything else, and so we forgive ourselves and others and spread the joy, peace, compassion and love around. The rest of religion tends to focus on the "why." But do we really need a reason?

 

[path_of_one]

My communal spiritual practice really doesn't involve a regular congregation or a set schedule of any sort. We just sort of run into each other at opportune times, usually unplanned, and discuss spiritual things, and/or set up a meeting time/place and invite whomever comes to mind. I really feel quite comfortable with that. These types of meetings usually are the most spiritually uplifting and satisfying for me.

Hey, we are all human beings, and we're all in the same boat. We are all also all individuals. Many of the people I meet with or have impromptu spiritual discussions with have different perspectives and beliefs than I do, but we have great discussion and come away with more than what we came with. That is what makes it so spiritually rewarding for me.

That's quite beautiful, SG. So I suppose I could leave my interpretation of service and community fluid and then I would already have one. I rarely see people more than once, but many of my singular discussions are very uplifting and I believe mutually beneficial. Usually without me bringing it up or even initiating any conversation, I end up talking about religion and spirituality with people. It just happens. I've talked to all sorts this way, and it's been a very fascinating journey.

 

[wil]

...

I've been thinking about what I hear a lot from various people- first, this discussion of "Cafeteria" religion and the "wishy-washy" folks.

I often feel a bit like an imposter in Christianity. I sincerely love Christ and follow his teachings. I experience him personally. But beyond that, I have not much in common. So I sometimes feel like I'm something else in Christian clothing when I go to a Bible study or retreat. At church, it doesn't matter much as it is a liturgical church and the point is common prayer. But otherwise, the more personal groupings of Christians, I feel like I'm either rocking the boat or being reserved. Reserved is fine, but to most Christians reservedness is taken for passive agreement, and then I feel like I'm lying by default.

So... thoughts? What do you or would you do in a similar situation?

Namaste poo,

Ah where to begin? While I don't feel wishy washy or an imposter in Christianity I am often called so. As anyone who has been around here any length of time our beloved bible thumpers and fundamentalists love to say "Get the behind me Satan!" And I know they have my best in their heart and would love to convert me to their way of thinking and have me saved in their way of believing...but thru our discussions have so learned to honor their path and most of them here have learned to tolerate (or simply ignore) me.

Wishy washy...yes that wishy washy wil the Unitic...but to me we aren't even close to wishy washy...Thou shalt not murder means don't murder enthusiasm or creativity etc. And I am guilty...I don't believe in original sin, I don't need to, I break this one regularly...and I don't believe in confession, I believe in learning from my mistakes and improving, and I am getting better.

I've also broke 'thou shalt not commit adultery' because I've watered down and diluted my beliefs. I've listened to racist jokes and not stood up, I've watched folks verbally abuse another person in public and not said anything...ie I've not been true to myself in order to fit in society...I've sinned...I've missed the mark, but I am trying to do better.

Thou shall have no G!ds before me....oh I used to be a big gambler and believe me the NFL sabbath was much more important at one time. I also let alcohol and drugs take rule over my life and am currently battling food as my saviour...as one falls the others become more apparent, but we are working on it.

So is Unity a wishy washy religion when we ask ourselves to toe the line like this?? I don't think so.

I work with Youth Ed and one of our wonderful teachers (not my church but one nearby) is Muslim, yup, and we've got Catholics and Methodists, we don't require one to give up their religion in order to attend or become members of ours. Have I found a home, yes...I love it. (funny the reference to UU's as when I take that beliefnet test I don't come out Unity, I come out 100% UU) but my home is Unity.

Our principles...

[FONT=Times, Times New Roman][FONT=Times, Times New Roman]Children's Version [/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Times, Times New Roman]​

[FONT=Times, Times New Roman]1. God is all good and active in everything, everywhere. [/FONT]​

[FONT=Times, Times New Roman]2. I am naturally good because God's Divinity is in me and in everyone. [/FONT]​

[FONT=Times, Times New Roman]3. I create my experiences by what I choose to think and what I feel and believe. [/FONT]​

[FONT=Times, Times New Roman]4. Through affirmative prayer and meditation, I connect with God and bring out the good in my life. [/FONT]​

[FONT=Times, Times New Roman]5. I do and give my best by living the Truth I know. I make a difference![/FONT] ​

[FONT=Times, Times New Roman]Adult Version [/FONT]​

[FONT=Times, Times New Roman]1. There is only one Presence and one Power active as the universe and as my life, God the Good Omnimpotent. [/FONT]​

[FONT=Times, Times New Roman]2. Our essence is of God; therefore, we are inherently good. This God essence was fully expressed in Jesus, the Christ. [/FONT]​

[FONT=Times, Times New Roman]3. We are co-creators with God, creating reality through thoughts held in mind. [/FONT]​

[FONT=Times, Times New Roman]4. Through prayer and meditation, we align our heart-mind with god. Denials and affirmations are tools we use. [/FONT]​

[FONT=Times, Times New Roman]5. Through thoughts, words and actions, we live the Truth we know. [/FONT]​

[/FONT]

[FONT=Times, Times New Roman]

When so when this wishy washy heretical blasphemer goes to church or on retreats I feel so at home it is rediculous. I'm half ready to set up a cot in the corner and simply move in...

Now I surely know you you know you are a child of G!d and you carry your divinity beautifully.

My question, do you feel an imposter to Christ? I doubt it.

And my last answer. If I were in your shoes I'd do what you'd do in your shoes. That and next time you are in DC...I'll pick you up and take ya to church!!​

[/FONT]

 

[Dream]

I don't think it is the ego to think there is an elegant, simple answer. I think we want things complicated .....

....and so we forgive ourselves and others and spread the joy, peace, compassion and love around. The rest of religion tends to focus on the "why." But do we really need a reason?

Excellent point and also excellent question. I hate to think I make things unnecessarily complicated, but I do. Also, I hate to think it is for nothing, but maybe it is. I cannot change, so maybe there is some temple of complication for me. As for that excellent question, the best answer I can give right now: We lose hope, because things go wrong with us sometimes. That is why, I think we tend to focus on why, so we can change that feeling.

 

[17th Angel]

To Alex-



That's a rather lovely sentiment.

I would wager from your perspective, I should be happy that I can sense a community with my dogs and plants and a handful of folks I love... and just enjoy, as my dogs do-- a nice nap in the sun, cold water, and a long walk.

Indeed, there you go, you do not need to look for a path As you are being! and if there is a god up there, then you would be doing what he made you to do.... How many other animals on this planet do you see stressing to find themselves.... Your dogs, your dogs take you for you, and want you to take them for them. Man complicates things.... I feel it's really unessassary...

And perhaps I should. But part of what keeps me questioning are the folks on this board- those who talk about the importance of the communal- as Luna was discussing.

But you just said you are in communal..... Dogs, plants, handful of people you love.... That is a community.... Or did you mean communal as "in common"? Then again I'd have to say you're already doing that......

If you on the other hand are speaking of a "religious communal" I think you will find those that are within those groups indeed will stress to you it being "important" As numbers build ones confidence that they are on the "right path" back to that circle pathway again..... They want you to be apart of it to justify why they are in it..... I'd say you have already found your community, and do not let another tell you that it isn't enough and that you must find a religious community.....

Just my thoughts of course... Something to chew on.

But is all the angst I feel when I strive for this and search an indication of its proper place in my life, or is it an indication of the need to move beyond it?

Angst? Angst means fear.... And I would say that is the "sheep mentality" rubbing off from others upon one's self.... I can't really answer it for you... I just wanted to briefly comment and say about the seeking and so on.... But, If you bend my arm.... I'd have to say it is a sign to move on... lol but, you know..

Is it more that my ego desires to be alone, and so I should strive to submit the "self" to a community of some sort? Or is it that my ego desires to be with others and belong, and so I should strive to be happy with being solitary and let go of my attachment to community? Or is there some other thing going on?

See there it is again path, submit.... submit to a community? That means -they- win.... You already have your community, and it's perfect... Go down to that plot of land of yours for your family BBQ sing songs by the fire feast play with the dogs, nothing beats that.... Compare that feeling you feel inside... To the feeling you feel when you are sat in one of those awakward wooden pews in the church.... Compare the feelings of all the groups you have seeked and see how they stand out to the community you already had all along from the very begining....

Nah we're not meant to be alone..... No one finds happiness alone... I once thought I could... But without my community.... (my dogs, my partner, my woods......) what would I be? What would I have? What could I do? Nothing.

 

[path_of_one]

While I don't feel wishy washy or an imposter in Christianity I am often called so.

Wishy washy...yes that wishy washy wil the Unitic...but to me we aren't even close to wishy washy...Thou shalt not murder means don't murder enthusiasm or creativity etc. And I am guilty...I don't believe in original sin, I don't need to, I break this one regularly...and I don't believe in confession, I believe in learning from my mistakes and improving, and I am getting better.

Yes- I don't feel you're wishy-washy, Wil. Just have a different belief than some. I do think there are wishy-washy people, but that's part of what I'm trying to get at- a truly interfaith or unique path individual isn't necessarily wishy or washy.

People often call me a "struggling" Christian. I question anyone who thinks they are not struggling, but I choose to use the word "striving" as a more positive way to say reaching toward a goal of perfection that is very, very difficult (but I do not think impossible) to attain. Of course, they don't mean it that way. They mean I'm "struggling" because I don't agree on certain details of doctrine.

[FONT=Times, Times New Roman]

When so when this wishy washy heretical blasphemer goes to church or on retreats I feel so at home it is rediculous. I'm half ready to set up a cot in the corner and simply move in...

[/FONT]

That'd be nice. ​

[FONT=Times, Times New Roman]

Now I surely know you you know you are a child of G!d and you carry your divinity beautifully.

[/FONT]

Thanks. I do know I'm a child of God, and I try to be consciously so in my thoughts and actions. I'm a long way from that shore, but I do try to swim in the right direction each day.​

[FONT=Times, Times New Roman]

My question, do you feel an imposter to Christ? I doubt it.

[/FONT]

No, I do not feel like an imposter to Christ. I feel at home with Christ.

But then, I think anyone can be at home with Christ if one is trying to stay true to one's inner light that He embodied completely.​

 

[Netti-Netti]

I think it is prolly true that participating in religious services with a group who are of a different religion might be bad form. I don't know if there's really a way around that unless you convert.

I would feel out of place at almost any religious service other than one I'm conducting. (I don't consider discussions religious service.)