Machine People -- not human

The machines will be welcomed as fellow adherents.

  • Total voters
    12
My car's got a brain but no spirit.

For the near future we will have control of our machines, but it is just a matter of time till they take over. If they're not already smarter than us, it won't be too long.

I think the fields are called bioethics and cyberethics.
 
GlorytoGod said:
i believe that spirit is what we really are, brain, mind, body etc are temporary.
Click to expand...

According to my view, there is nothing about who and what we are that is not temporary. We are finite beings. We can research life-extension techniques (including "uploading" our personalities to computers), but for all practical purposes we should assume an finite lifespan.

If I understand you to mean that "spirit" is some aspect of our existence that is not temporary, then I'll say that we don't have "spirit" either. We are mind-bodies. The transhumans could possibly also be mind-bodies.


eudaimonia,

Mark
 
Eudaimonist said:
According to my view, there is nothing about who and what we are that is not temporary. We are finite beings. We can research life-extension techniques (including "uploading" our personalities to computers), but for all practical purposes we should assume an finite lifespan.

If I understand you to mean that "spirit" is some aspect of our existence that is not temporary, then I'll say that we don't have "spirit" either. We are mind-bodies. The transhumans could possibly also be mind-bodies.


eudaimonia,

Mark
Click to expand...

if you say so.
 
Avi:
but it is just a matter of time till they take over
Click to expand...

This is the definition of the singularity event.

c0de said:
If civilization ever reached the point of technological "singularity" it would be the end of man. As that would be the moment he would become obsolete.
Click to expand...

I partly disagree that man would be obsolete due to the singularity. By that time, man will have integrated with machine, becoming something new. I say partly because whatever this new man would be is derived from human intelligence. Even though people of the future could call themselves man-machine or something.

Dream:
Wow, lorrie/truck drivers out of work?
Click to expand...

That is interesting. My Dad was once a truck driver. I imagine the same will happen to other occupations, like teaching, in the future too. It seems downloading information from machines into the brain would eventually replace teaching. The problem I see is that people will be out of work. There would have to be some kind of huge economic revolution of some kind for the higher and higher involvement of machines in the workplace. While people would have more leisure time, they would need some kind of income if some money system even exists in the future.

Also, what happens when a machine becomes conscious that its relatives are slave drivers, and that this was its original purpose?
 
Tao_Equus said:
What is the difference? You ever come across a spirit with no brain?
Click to expand...

Yeah. They're called methylated spirits. You drink 'em and use them for cleaning.

I know a few friends who walk around with spirits in them. You've got to be careful not to let the genie out of the bottle.
 
If anything would qualify as being an "abomination of desolation" it would be a simulated human device which assumes it is human as it has all the programming to make such an assumption, yet it has no connection to the defining factor of all life forms which is LIFE.

Such a device would be a man-made zombie (a dead golem with artificial life) which may serve people for a time, but would eventually see people as being inefficient and pointless and so would either seek to rid the world of them or would seek to extract what people have which it does not.

Just thinking out loud here.
 
Ahanu said:
Dream:
Quote:
Wow, lorrie/truck drivers out of work?
That is interesting. My Dad was once a truck driver. I imagine the same will happen to other occupations, like teaching, in the future too. It seems downloading information from machines into the brain would eventually replace teaching. The problem I see is that people will be out of work. There would have to be some kind of huge economic revolution of some kind for the higher and higher involvement of machines in the workplace. While people would have more leisure time, they would need some kind of income if some money system even exists in the future.

Also, what happens when a machine becomes conscious that its relatives are slave drivers, and that this was its original purpose?
Click to expand...
Wow I missed part of your comment Ahanu. Forgive me. I'm a terrible host, but I will at least reply to your interesting comment!!!!

Yes people will be out of work, however people die every seventy years or so. The newer generation will not know what work is, so the survivors will have adapted to not working. We are talking about a world where information is simply integrated into physical reality. It is completely different from our world, where money is required to keep people working, which is required to supply everyone with food, shelter, clothing, friendship and entertainment. I think provision will not be a problem, though people may become like masterless Samurai. Either they will become like rats living in shadows or they will focus upon utopian principles in a world of saturate plenty.

Probably there would be some back and forth discussion about what is best for a human to do. Some people would ask "Maybe we should cease to be?" Think of humanity as an astronaut in zero gravity. An astronaut has to come up with treadmills and other various devices to keep musculature toned, but an astronaut is otherwise just fine in outer space. Humanity will likewise be living in a sort of zero gravity of no threat/strain/lack/suffering and will have to come up with various exertions to keep its musculature toned - the musculature of wisdom, preparedness and goodwill. Those who keep these things up will continue to function and fill whatever space they adapt to.
 
I don't see the need for machine people. To me that is sci fi stuff and way to much work. Want a machine to walk up stairs? We invent the escalator, dumbwaiter or elevator, no need for it to look like a human walking upstairs. The answering machine has eliminated the receptionist in many offices...but again, it doesn't have the legs or the smile (please don't tell Avi I said that). And how about all the machines that have replace auto workers, none of them looks human. Or someone spoke of the lorrie drivers, we have automated trucks following human driven trucks...without the driver...but again, it simply needs to control acceleration, steering, brakes, to make it fully automated we simply add radar, a camera, gps and mapquest, but again, nothing has to look like a driver.

So I see AI coming, I see machines doing an increasing amount of labor and thinking, but why on earth would anyone need one to look and act human? Why add our faults and inadequacies to the equation?
 
Nativeastral said:
from a transhuman site
Click to expand...
Wow, nativeastral, that was weird! I enjoyed that a lot.

Those people made it sound like the limitations to technical prowess were going away, but there are a few limitations to AI that may never be dealt with:
1. Intelligent beings must be driven by desire, otherwise they do not have decision making capability. Decisions require conflicting desires. Humanity will not easily grant this power to an AI creature.
2. Intelligent beings must have a childhood. One thing that sets humans aside from beasts is that we have a long and vulnerable early stage called childhood. Without that stage, we are not human. As in #1 above, I sincerely doubt that any artificial intelligence not properly reared, will survive the pruning that humanity will give it. It will not be anything but hideous to us who have compassion and mutual sympathy. It will be de-clawed, neutered, and dumbed down to the point it becomes a physics computer or talking toaster.
3. Without any unpredictability, the adaptability and hence the longevity of such AI would be dwarfed by the longevity of natural living things. There would be no expectation of them evolving in the long run.

Wil said:
So I see AI coming, I see machines doing an increasing amount of labor and thinking, but why on earth would anyone need one to look and act human? Why add our faults and inadequacies to the equation?
Click to expand...
I agree. The transhuman idea is flawed in that if you remove the 'flaws', the creature becomes stagnant. Evolution stops. Death is our biggest flaw, however it is death that makes progress possible. I cannot see AI simulating that, so it is no replacement for humanity.

Many physical realities cannot be accurately simulated by computers. That is why real brains are computationally unpredictable whereas a simulated brain would be relatively predictable. Though they might reproduce, flawless beings would have poor evolutionary quality. (Zero if the AI beings were immortal.) Something would come up that they could not adapt to, for sheer lack of randomness and death. Over the eons they would disappear into the background of living/dying things.
 
wil said:
So I see AI coming, I see machines doing an increasing amount of labor and thinking, but why on earth would anyone need one to look and act human? Why add our faults and inadequacies to the equation?
Click to expand...

Why did we land men on the Moon? We didn't have to. We didn't need to.

Human looking AIs will happen because human beings like to push the envelope of their possibilities. It's a challenge that beckons us.

Perhaps there will be benefits that aren't apparent to us right now, and not all of them necessarily "good". (Human governments might not care if AI spies are caught and destroyed.)

But perhaps they will be a means towards a kind of immortality, if it really does make sense to "upload" one's personality into an AI computer. (And even if it doesn't. How would one know if it didn't fully work?)


eudaimonia,

Mark
 
shawn said:
If anything would qualify as being an "abomination of desolation" it would be a simulated human device which assumes it is human as it has all the programming to make such an assumption, yet it has no connection to the defining factor of all life forms which is LIFE.
Click to expand...

I agree pretty much. Nothing but a simulation of a human. Attempts at reducing the essence of humans to the desires and thoughts of the mind sort of makes me cringe, going against my personal conviction that there is a soul.

Eudaimonist said:
But perhaps they will be a means towards a kind of immortality, if it really does make sense to "upload" one's personality into an AI computer. (And even if it doesn't. How would one know if it didn't fully work?)
Click to expand...

Seems more like immortality of the vessel that the "personality" is uploaded to than the person that it's uploaded from. Reminds of of The 6th day with Arnold Schwarzenneger (Though probly not the best movie to use lol)

Ah well, none of this will matter once teh Anunnaki re-invade.







.......IFTHEYHAVEN'TALREADYOMG!!!
 
Eudaimonist said:
Why did we land men on the Moon? We didn't have to. We didn't need to.

Human looking AIs will happen because human beings like to push the envelope of their possibilities. It's a challenge that beckons us.
Click to expand...
I think we needed to, it was a tech race between US and the commies, our egos required it, we acknowledged by rallying around. Like the human genome, a goal was set and folks rallied....I see no such ego need to make a human...look at the robotic vacuum cleaner....vs. the machine vacuum cleaner, one designed for human operation the other without. It only makes sense that we will get simpler and more efiicient in our designs rather than more complex and inefficient.

Nivek said:
Ah well, none of this will matter once teh Anunnaki re-invade........IFTHEYHAVEN'TALREADYOMG!!!
Click to expand...
The Annunaki came back mere moments after the original invasion. They came via time and supplanted the ego and greed and then back eons later in our time but moments later to collect the gold we mined and storehoused for them.

APOD: 2008 May 18 - On the Origin of Gold
 
wil said:
The Annunaki came back mere moments after the original invasion. They came via time and supplanted the ego and greed and then back eons later in our time but moments later to collect the gold we mined and storehoused for them.
Click to expand...

I ascribe more to Anton Park's writings and theories than anyone elses at the moments.
zeitlin.net (click on the ages of uras)(I can't post links till my post count is 10 :()
 
good prog on bbc4 tonight 'machine men' on history of robots, the chinese blessed the first one that came off the line with a prayer.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top