Satan

Which of these statments would you agree with the most?

  • The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist

    Votes: 3 23.1%
  • The greatest trick the EGO ever pulled was convincing us there is a Devil

    Votes: 10 76.9%

  • Total voters
    13
What is a mob?
It seems to be a larger entity, yet it is made up of a whole bunch of individuals, yet it functions as a mob or a group.
It seems that there are some aspects of group psyche which are still not well understood.
There is also the phenomena of gestalt (which is like a mob, it is a group mind, usually used in reference to better realities than a mob produces).
 
I can see your analogy now.

So your saying in the same way the devil trys to influence us.. I see your point but metaphysically speaking what is the source of the devil, is it an entity or a manifestation of a lack of control of our emotions? Christians even till today use exorcists, they claim demons can be inside you, mother Teresa had one when she had insomnia.. shes been ascribed to miracles which I personally believe were true ones bought on by her. But for the exorcism come on.
Hmm, you mean you don't see possession around you every day?

How about simple possession? Your buddy can't stop looking at porn, another can't stop drinking, another still sleeps until the cows come home. Or how about friends that go ass over tea kettle for a new philosophy, or obsessed about their bodies, or money, or being in control?

Otherwise normal people, who begin to act in ways that make you uncomfortable, and you know is unhealthy for them...

Case in point: I know a man who's wife (formerly Christian), decided to become a Wiccan. He remained Christian, but didn't know how to deal with the newly "Wiccan" wife. It didn't take long before she went exploring in ways that he could never accept. She accused him of repressing her, so he let her go...

A year later, she came to her senses, but by then the damage to the marriage was terminal. To this day, she doesn't know what possessed her to throw everything away.

But the fact is, she wanted to explore avenues of life that were not healthy for anyone, let alone her marriage, and her husband had no intention of following her lead down a path that went against his faith.

When she left, she was one person, and when she reached out she was a different person.

She opened herself up to "windows" of influence that took control of her life. Her husband almost followed her, but something inside was stronger and said "no".

You decide
 
Hmm, you mean you don't see possession around you every day?

How about simple possession? Your buddy can't stop looking at porn, another can't stop drinking, another still sleeps until the cows come home. Or how about friends that go ass over tea kettle for a new philosophy, or obsessed about their bodies, or money, or being in control?

Otherwise normal people, who begin to act in ways that make you uncomfortable, and you know is unhealthy for them...

Case in point: I know a man who's wife (formerly Christian), decided to become a Wiccan. He remained Christian, but didn't know how to deal with the newly "Wiccan" wife. It didn't take long before she went exploring in ways that he could never accept. She accused him of repressing her, so he let her go...

A year later, she came to her senses, but by then the damage to the marriage was terminal. To this day, she doesn't know what possessed her to throw everything away.

But the fact is, she wanted to explore avenues of life that were not healthy for anyone, let alone her marriage, and her husband had no intention of following her lead down a path that went against his faith.

When she left, she was one person, and when she reached out she was a different person.

She opened herself up to "windows" of influence that took control of her life. Her husband almost followed her, but something inside was stronger and said "no".

You decide


I can see where your coming from.. But this could also boil down a mid-life crisis, which does happen commonly, does the devil wait till they reach 40 before he starts playing his tricks or is it something were predispositioned to do? Could get some men and women doing crazy things financially, religiously, affairs, tatoos, turn gay, you name it. I know what Darwin would say and I know what the church would say.
 
Namaste Q,

All your points seem perfect examples of folks trying to blame the little imagary critter for their own foibles...

Heck, I'd love to believe in the devil and pass the blame of all my past indescretions off on him...

Of all the things I gave up to become a Christian unitic, I miss blame the most.
 
@ Wil

You think Q was blaming the devil for the woman's own actions? (cuz he wasn't)
 
Namaste Q,

All your points seem perfect examples of folks trying to blame the little imagary critter for their own foibles...

Heck, I'd love to believe in the devil and pass the blame of all my past indescretions off on him...

Of all the things I gave up to become a Christian unitic, I miss blame the most.
Perhaps because you don't think anyone can get inside your head...lol
 
Namaste Q,

All your points seem perfect examples of folks trying to blame the little imagary critter for their own foibles...

Heck, I'd love to believe in the devil and pass the blame of all my past indescretions off on him...

Of all the things I gave up to become a Christian unitic, I miss blame the most.
The difference between you and me is that I know I'm as guilty as sin. I know it, and I'm not proud of it, but I admit it.

My prayer has been "God, may I help more than I hurt". Sometimes that is not so good a record.

I also know that there are times when I would normally not look at an issue twice, then I come back to that issue, and I'm not sure why, and I think things that I don't imagine myself ever pondering. Then I have to ask myself, why?

It wasn't there in the beginning...why do I go back? And why is it suddenly harder to walk away from?

You may have all the answers and the power to avoid all dangerous areas of life, but then you are in the minority. Kudos
 
The difference between you and me is that I know I'm as guilty as sin. I know it, and I'm not proud of it, but I admit it.

You may have all the answers and the power to avoid all dangerous areas of life, but then you are in the minority. Kudos
Namaste Q,

Always love it when folks indicate that I have all the answers and they know the 'difference between you and me'. I'd love to be so knowledgable.

For some reason you think me perfect, why call me perfect, no one is perfect but the father... I avoid dangerous areas of life...hmmm you mean like divorce, forclosure, bankruptcy, and all those tendencies we have as humans to go the wrong way??

Been there, done that, hope I don't have to again, but I'll cross that bridge when I come to it. Without sin?? I miss the mark all the time.

What I said is I've learned not to blame others for what happens to me, not to blame my friends, my family, my parents, my kids, the economy, the bigots, the zealots, or some little red horny critter...

I take personal responsibility for it all. Including being misinterpretted by you.
 
I take personal responsibility for it all...

Then you wouldn't mind taking responsibility for this:

All your points seem perfect examples of folks trying to blame the little imagary critter for their own foibles...Heck, I'd love to believe in the devil and pass the blame of all my past indescretions off on him... Of all the things I gave up to become a Christian unitic,I miss blame the most.

What makes you think that everyone who believes that satan exists, uses that belief to avoid responsibility for their own actions? If that is what you used to do, then that was your mistake (and misinterpretation). Please don't assume that everyone else made the same mistake.

I believe satan exists, and I wish I could pass the blame of all my sins on to him... but I can't.
 
Then you wouldn't mind taking responsibility for this:



What makes you think that everyone who believes that satan exists, uses that belief to avoid responsibility for their own actions? If that is what you used to do, then that was your mistake (and misinterpretation). Please don't assume that everyone else made the same mistake.

I believe satan exists, and I wish I could pass the blame of all my sins on to him... but I can't.
Namaste code,

If you blame any of your indescetions on him that is more than the little fictitious character deserves. This is my opinion, your milage may vary.

And sure, it is my fault. But despite your response I can't find that I indicated everyone or even anyone all the time...it seems I said, his points made perfect examples of my understanding...
 
If you blame any of your indescetions on him that is more than the little fictitious character deserves.

Like I said, I wish I could... but I know I can't...
 
See Satan has no power if there is no inclination to do or think something. It's only if the seed is already in our mind, that he has a perch in our lives.

Jesus described the devil as the "father of lies." In Christianity, Satan is the devil.

The father of lies plays the opposite role to God who is the "Father of truth." This is perhaps where we get the modern Christian concept of Satan, where God and Satan are binary opposites.

You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father's desire. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speak his native language, for he is a liar and father of lies. John 8:44
I think we have to put this in literary context. It is interesting that Jesus calls the devil a "murderer" as if he were out to kill people. The metaphor is that the devil kills people by leading them astray and making them believe in lies, preventing them from seeing the "truth" that would lead to the heavenly paradise he offered.

He also called him the "father of lies" as if every lie was a person, a person who was also one of the devil's children. Lies are personified as living people, personified as being alive and having a life of their own.

I suppose this is one of the places where Christians get the idea of the "cosmic troublemaker," a concept that I've been told doesn't exist in Judaism and Islam and is unique to Christianity.

Here is a little more on what he said.

If I am telling the truth, why don't you believe me? He who belongs to God hears what God says. The reason you do not hear is that you do belong to God. John 8:46-47
The "father" that Jesus describes and that you find in the epistles of John as well as the Gospel of John seems to play the role of a teacher, whereas the child plays the role of a student. The "child" is a "follower" of the "father."

The Son can do nothing by himself; he can only do what he sees his own Father doing, because whatever the Father does the Son also does. John 5:19
I believe the idea that the child is a follower of his father is found in the Old Testament as well. Elisha calls Elijah his father just before he is taken up into heaven (2 Kings 2:12).

Jews and Israelites are the Children of Israel. Adherents of the Abrahamic faiths are Children of Abraham, either by blood or spiritually by being followers of the Abrahamic faiths. Noahides are the Children of Noah, descendants of the survivors of the Flood. Some way or another, we are also Children of Cain and universally, Children of Adam. A "child" inherits the life and agenda of his "father." Because Adam obeyed the Serpent, it means that we are also Children of the Serpent (and thus the devil and Satan).

That's our connection with Satan in a literary context. I think the concept and the associated phenomenon is more important than whether Satan actually exists.

The idea of calling the devil a "father of lies" adds a sense of heroism and adventurism in that you no longer just view your life as a challenge to obey the Law of Israel. You also see it as a cosmic struggle between good and evil where the so-called "father of lies" is your enemy and adversary.

You start seeing yourself as a hero (ie. a child of God) rather than just another descendant of Israel/Jacob. This heroism and adventurism was a product of Hellenism which had a fair amount of influence over Judaism (more like a fad) in the first century and which also influenced Christianity's early development.

It becomes a question of the identity of your "spiritual father." ie. Is it God or the "father of lies?"
 
When we dwell in the consciousness of God as the infinite Power then no human, devil or evil can do us harm. God is the one Power, the All-powerful and the only Power that we acknowledge, nothing less than Omnipresence. When we’ve come to understand this fact and the interconnectedness of all things, we’ll know love; we’ll know ourselves; and we’ll know peace.
 
I suppose this is one of the places where Christians get the idea of the "cosmic troublemaker," a concept that I've been told doesn't exist in Judaism and Islam and is unique to Christianity.


You are corr3ct sir,

The Christian concept of satan differs significantly from the Islamic perspective. In the Quran, there was no great war in heaven, and satan never "challenged" God. What he did was disobey God, and he got cast away as a consequence. Everything he has done has been allowed by God, according to the agreement he made with God before being thrown out.

Therefore, there is no dichotomy of control in Islam. Satan is not the ruler of evil, he is no ruler of anything. God alone is supremely in control of everything (according to the Quran).
 
Ok, who dresses the pope? I mean like style.

Give me a cow maid! Please, and thanks.
 
lol satan gave him fashion tips! :D

Satanas: "noooo nooo You look good!"
old man: "You think they will take me serious?"
Satanas: "you just screeeeam respect... you look..... Faaaaaab-u-lussss!"
Old man: "Ah thanks stan!"
Satanas: "You're welcome Ave Stan!"
Old man: "Ave Stan!"
 
Ok, who dresses the pope? I mean like style.

Give me a cow maid! Please, and thanks.



:Dtalking about things the pope wears ,is it the pope that wears a fish hat which has its roots in pagan worship.
that pagan worship gets everywhere does it not?
 
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