Why is Christianity loosing the cultural war ?

Based on all the comments made after my opening post, I made some change to it.
Here it is

Why is Christianity loosing the cultural war ?

Statistics show that adultery, pornography, divorce, abortions and other sinful and destructive behavior are as prevalent among Christians as they are in the society at large. Christianity has not been able to protect its own believers, let alone act as leaven to protect the nation. So called Same sex "marriages" are now on the offense gaining significant legislative and social ground every day. This is a new and deeply troubling stage of this cultural and spiritual war. Family breakdown (overt and covert) is the single most corrosive force and # 1 indicator for failed societies, or any civilization in decline. Why is Christianity powerless in the face of these urgent challenges?
 
I'd still respond the same way.

Also, I am skeptical that the "decline of the family" is the best marker for general decline of a civilization. I'd need a lot of scientific references to back that, otherwise it's just opinion.

Finally, I would say the US doesn't necessarily have a decline of the family as much as a cultural change in what families are thought to be.

The idea of the monogamous heterosexual marriage with 2.5 kids and a dog is a cultural one. Families in Biblical times were very different and would be illegal by modern US standards. Cultures all over the world have different kinds of families. Families are not threatened because people will always need to raise children. The way they are constructed may change, but the function of raising children is always protected by biological necessity.

Where you see a problem, I see a lot of assumptions leading to a perception of a problem.

Now if you wish to talk of real family deterioration, I think we can talk more broadly about the increasing focus on the individual and reward of greed and competitiveness in the US, as opposed to a communal perspective. US culture encourages and values some core ideals that are (I think) antithetical to Christ's teachings. When push comes to shove, it seems most churches and denominations put national ideals before Christ's ideals. I think that is because Christ's teachings were, for the most part, highly revolutionary. A group of Christians who follow Christ's teachings would be really difficult to rule- no fear, no greed/desire for self, love for everybody. Commitment to the Body of Christ above any other identity, and in fact in place of any other identity, as we are called to "love neighbor as ourselves" and to "love God with all our heart." That leaves little room for selfish desire or fear (that can be used by capitalist advertising) and little room for love of identity (this nation or that race or what have you).
 
I'm going to agree with Netti & Path of one. Family life is unchanged essentially. There have always been same sex marriages, divorce, happy marriages, child abuse and spousal abuse. Parent abuse is another one. The family is not breaking down, however the cities are very cold and unwelcoming and towns are often very uncompassionate towards outcasts and aliens. 'Pastor' continues to rhyme with 'Master', and 'Sheep' with 'Sleep'.
 
They have always been prevalent in any society.

The spiritual war is actually of liberals vs conservative - those who would open humanity to change, and those who seek to limit humanity's ability to change.

It's almost a Yin Yang thing - both are dynamic forces with their own positive/negative elements - and where one dominates over the other, you have imbalance.
 
Based on all the comments made after my opening post, I made some change to it.
Here it is

Why is Christianity loosing the cultural war ?

Statistics show that adultery, pornography, divorce, abortions and other sinful and destructive behavior are as prevalent among Christians as they are in the society at large. Christianity has not been able to protect its own believers, let alone act as leaven to protect the nation.
Protect them from what and how is this line of argument different from thinly veiled fear mongering?

So far, you have given us no reason to believe there is a 'culture war." You can restate the "problem" using differerent words, but I believe it is not much more than using different words to make up controversy out of thin air. In fact, you have made no attemtp to demonstrate that certain behaviors are "sinful and destructive" and your use of these terms is sloganistic.

The point I am making in my post is that Christianity does not seem to have a family salvation theology.
It is not unusual to posit the existence of a problem and then to offer a solution. That's basic marketing technique. In this case, I disagree with the premise about whether there is even a problem other than a lack of faith and a flawed understanding of Christian values on the part of those who want to recreate the world in their own likeness.

A model for family health is given in the Bible in the form of evolving covenant relationships with the L-rd. It is a recurring theme that would can be considered in developing a family salvation theology.
 
Based on all the comments made after my opening post, I made some change to it.
Here it is

Why is Christianity loosing the cultural war ?

Statistics show that adultery, pornography, divorce, abortions and other sinful and destructive behavior are as prevalent among Christians as they are in the society at large. Christianity has not been able to protect its own believers, let alone act as leaven to protect the nation. So called Same sex "marriages" are now on the offense gaining significant legislative and social ground every day. This is a new and deeply troubling stage of this cultural and spiritual war. Family breakdown (overt and covert) is the single most corrosive force and # 1 indicator for failed societies, or any civilization in decline. Why is Christianity powerless in the face of these urgent challenges?
And when was it any different?

As indicated not in Genesis and not in Jesus time either. Why do we think the Centurian didn't want Jesus to come heal his manservant, but do it from afar?

Hedonism of all sorts has occurred thru all time. The sanctimonious pass laws, create religions and look down there noses...(and often get busted for doing same they preach against)
 
Why is Christianity loosing the cultural war ?

from dictionary.com
loosing


–verb (used with object)
20. to let loose; free from bonds or restraint.
21. to release, as from constraint, obligation, or penalty.
22. Chiefly Nautical. to set free from fastening or attachment: to loose a boat from its moorings.
23. to unfasten, undo, or untie, as a bond, fetter, or knot.
24. to shoot; discharge; let fly: to loose missiles at the invaders.
25. to make less tight; slacken or relax.
26. to render less firmly fixed; lessen an attachment; loosen.

–verb (used without object)
27. to let go a hold.
28. to hoist anchor; get under way.
29. to shoot or let fly an arrow, bullet, etc. (often fol. by off): to loose off at a flock of ducks.
30. Obsolete. to become loose; loosen.​
Why indeed is this cultural war being discharged, hoisted, or gotten underway?
 
And when was it any different?

As indicated not in Genesis and not in Jesus time either. Why do we think the Centurian didn't want Jesus to come heal his manservant, but do it from afar?

Hedonism of all sorts has occurred thru all time. The sanctimonious pass laws, create religions and look down there noses...(and often get busted for doing same they preach against)
Trying to employ the power of the State rather than the power of the Spirit?
 
Trying to employ the power of the State rather than the power of the Spirit?
Exactly the problem. And religious righteous are acting like the state.

I still believe it is all a proving grounds. It is all good. If we can look at all this and see the good. If we can learn from the events in our perceived turmoil, we are gaining by the minute.
 
Why is Christianity loosing the cultural war ?

Statistics show that adultery, pornography, divorce, abortions and other sinful and destructive behavior are as prevalent among Christians as they are in the society at large. Christianity has not been able to protect its own believers, let alone act as leaven to protect the nation.

Family breakdown (overt and covert) is the single most corrosive force and # 1 indicator for failed societies, or any civilization in decline.

Why is Christianity powerless in the face of these urgent challenges?

Why is it even the responsibility of Christianity to solve these problems? As far as I am concerned, the purpose of Christianity is to either offer people a relationship with God or reassure them that nobody can come in the way of that relationship regardless of their religion. Secondly, it is about community. It is about our relationships with God and each other.

It is not, however about solving problems in these relationships in the sense of providing moral leadership. It's about being at peace with each other and God but it isn't about moral leadership.

To me, marriage and family is just a technicality. Some families can't stay together because of domestic violence and abuse. It's a choice between divorce and abuse or domestic violence. Divorce rates and family breakdowns are a sign of human vulnerability. The cynicist says that these people are corrupt and selfish, while the realist recognises that they are just people preserving their individual dignity and individuality.

Marriage and family is rarely ever going to survive if there is something more important: our individuality. But it is a part of my culture to be individualistic. I think I am right to be individualistic. It is a part of my personal and individual dignity, and by demanding that I retain my individuality, I command others to respect me. Sometimes, to stay in a family, you are allowing someone else to bully, intimidate, threaten and abuse you. By leaving you are making a statement: that you have been oppressed, wronged and persecuted.

The question that I would like to ask is this. Why do Christians have to be different? Does it make us less Christian if our rates of divorce and family breakdown aren't any better?

I think when people dwell on rates of divorce and family breakdown they're more concerned about Christianity's reputation and image than about genuine peace between people and God. They aren't concerned about social justice or reducing oppression and persecution.

I don't believe it makes anyone less Christian to get divorced or split up with their family. What I do believe makes them less Christian is to stay in the family because they think it's a sin to split and not do anything to make things more peaceful with their family, the community and God.

It's a matter of social justice, not protocol. Peace is more important than family or marriage.

So called Same sex "marriages" are now on the offense gaining significant legislative and social ground every day. This is a new and deeply troubling stage of this cultural and spiritual war.

Why are "same sex marriages" a threat to us? To me they're a completely different world/reality/experience altogether. Homosexuals have their own struggles and it is not our right to interfere.

It is like feminists campaigning for women's rights in a patriarchal society. Until half a century ago, they were told they weren't born or designed by God to be scientists, engineers and politicians. They were supposed to be mothers, housekeepers, cooks, babymakers and nappy-changers.

The difference between a heterosexual and homosexual is like that between a man and a woman. In the former patriarchal society, men were dominant and in the present generation, heterosexuals are dominant. Think of homosexuals as a different sex altogether.

Once upon a time, people were afraid that women and black people were going to take over. Now I think it's the homosexual's turn.

Old McDonald had farm and Martin Luther King had a Dream.
 
Put up your hand if you think that theology can save the world? Ok, now those of you with your hands up, I'd like to invite you all to my timeshare opportunity seminar...

By the way, if one keeps one's nose out of other peoples' business, one may find that said cultural war existeth not.
 
Put up your hand if you think that theology can save the world? Ok, now those of you with your hands up, I'd like to invite you all to my timeshare opportunity seminar...

By the way, if one keeps one's nose out of other peoples' business, one may find that said cultural war existeth not.
Namaste Marsh,

Now that's what I'm talkin about....

now back to that time share...is it in RCI? I need another one or two...
 
Put up your hand if you think that theology can save the world? Ok, now those of you with your hands up, I'd like to invite you all to my timeshare opportunity seminar...
By the way, if one keeps one's nose out of other peoples' business, one may find that said cultural war existeth not.

Until somebody put his nose in your business
 
Saltmeister said:
Old McDonald had farm and Martin Luther King had a Dream.
Amen! He did have a Dream, which was shared by many, which was unstoppable unless God had chosen to stop it -- but God had given that dream.

You know, Salty, I'd like to believe that things are improving for homosexuals; but mostly they are on the lower rungs of cultural acceptance. A culture would have to be stable, friendly, generally very impressive before things got very good for them. I could be wrong, but maybe acceptance of homosexuals is one of the higher indicators of cultural progress. A little bit of backsliding on our part and they start getting lynched. We had a very controversial but also productive thread about how Christian scriptures view homosexuals. It was really eye opening for me.
 
...maybe acceptance of homosexuals is one of the higher indicators of cultural progress.
A willingness to refrain from silly generalities about people we don't even know may be a cultural asset, too.

My main objection to RW propaganda is that it often assumes that people can be lumped into a category and once lumped we know all about them. This is foolishness. People are mysteries, not simplistic cartoon-like social types.
 
Protect them from what and how is this line of argument different from thinly veiled fear mongering? So far, you have given us no reason to believe there is a 'culture war." You can restate the "problem" using differerent words, but I believe it is not much more than using different words to make up controversy out of thin air. In fact, you have made no attemtp to demonstrate that certain behaviors are "sinful and destructive" and your use of these terms is sloganistic.
I am shock you do not know there is a cultural/spiritual war,

It is not unusual to posit the existence of a problem and then to offer a solution. That's basic marketing technique. In this case, I disagree with the premise about whether there is even a problem other than a lack of faith and a flawed understanding of Christian values on the part of those who want to recreate the world in their own likeness. model for family health is given in the Bible in the form of evolving covenant relationships with the L-rd. It is a recurring theme that would can be considered in developing a family salvation theology.
There is a saying that “as the family goes, so goes the nation.”
We certainly see the adverse effects in today’s world and in our
nation.
In fact, the history of the world, of strife, sorrow and pain is one
that is equally attributable to the breakdown of the family, the
original family, that is.
This is the perspective of the Garden of Eden story in the book
of Genesis. God was seeking to establish the prototypical family
from which was to emerge and eternal legacy leading to a
world and history of peace and familyhood.
I believe that Jesus came to restore what Adam & Eve had lost and create again this original family connected directly to God. It did not come originally just to start a new religion called Christianity.

He came to start a family from his sinless and Godly seed. I believe many Christian misunderstand Jesus, his heart and purpose.
Christianity does not have a family salvation plan. Jesus ended up has a single man on the cross.
There is so much confusion today because of this misunderstanding. A lot more was offered on the cross by Jesus. His own family. The wine and the bread are symbolic of his blood and body.

Humanity needed the new blood lineage that God wanted to establish on earth. Today we are still born with the original sin from a lineage that was kicked out of the garden by God.
 
I thought I was the right wing. I hate liberal theology with a passion. Definitely give me truth all the way, but then there's James. James loves liberal theology. So does I Corinthians. In the end, true fundamentals are liberal.

I Corinthians 8:2 And if any man think that he knoweth any thing, he knoweth nothing yet as he ought to know.
 
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I thought I was the right wing. I hate liberal theology with a passion. Definitely give me truth all the way, but then there's James. James loves liberal theology. So does I Corinthians. In the end, true fundamentals are liberal.

I Corinthians 8:2 And if any man think that he knoweth any thing, he knoweth nothing yet as he ought to know.

Now that's an interesting observation! I'm gonna have to kudo you for that.
 
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