Why is Christianity loosing the cultural war ?

[soleil10]

Well, let's see. If you help someone write their autobiography (and other books), would that make you "an associate"?
Maybe we disagree on what it means to be "an associate." Maybe this will shed some light on it: "White has also authored at least two of evangelist Jerry Falwell's books, including, unbelievable as it may seem, Falwell's autobiography, Strength for the Journey.'" THE SCANDAL OF CHRISTIAN GHOSTWRITING
It appears that Rev White was also ghostwriter/"associate" to Billy Graham (The Approaching Hoofbeats) and Pat Robertson (America's Dates With Destiny).
Yes. It sounded a lot like Pat Buchanan from almost 20 years ago, including the part about about "the battle is still to be waged."
It involved no research for me to see that you have so far shown no functional relationship between social breakdown and the quest for gay rights. Likewise, it took no research for me see that you have failed to make a case that denying gays rights would have any value at all as a fix for what you call "devastating civilization decline."
For your interest, in 2006 Pat Buchanan decided that conservatism could save face if fanatical conservatives would only give up on their grandiose notions of "Culture War." The fact that they persist on this path gives the impression that they are at the end of their rope.

Netti, you can promote homosexuality and so called ss "marriages" who deprive children from a father or a mother.
You can call people who do not agree with it as defeated hate mongers and fanatical whatever

You can make it all biblical and put God and Jesus stamp on it.

That is you business.

 

[Netti-Netti]

Netti, you can promote homosexuality and so called ss "marriages" who deprive children from a father or a mother.

I have no interest in promoting any ideology. Moreover, since parenting skills are specific to individuals, I'm puzzled that you'd argue that a father/mother parenting team can always be assumed to be optimum. Such generalities may indicate prejudice.

You can call people who do not agree with it as defeated hate mongers and fanatical whatever

I think the term "fanatical" is probably makes sense in reference to people who presume to model G-d's love on earth and who call for the execution of gays for being gay. You are of course free to argue that such a attitude is reasonable, workable, or compatible with "Family Theology."

You can make it all biblical and put God and Jesus stamp on it.

As far as I know, Jesus never had anything to say about gays or the merits of same sex marriage.

It has been said that proponents of SS marriage have a hard time convincing people of the need for it. I suspect many folks don't even see the debate the issues because they don't see how the debate would affect them one way or another. The antigay crowd that wants to convince others of a need to oppose SS marriage are in the same boat, especially since they are apparently unable to make a compelling case for why people shouldn't have a right to choose same-sex marriage.

 

[iBrian]

so called ss "marriages" who deprive children from a father or a mother.

Do we need deprive children of parent figures when we provide barriers to their joining?

The problem, really, is that marriage has become a very outmoded concept.

In ancient times, both during the Old Testament and New Testament writings, people were considered as married simply by living together.

Nowadays, people cannot be regarded as married unless they go through a civil process which exists primarily to determine tax status of the individuals.

This means children of couples living together are not afforded proper legal and financial protections by our societies unless they treat a marriage certificate as a necessary tax document, in the same manner as forming a will and other such documents.

 

[soleil10]

I have no interest in promoting any ideology. Moreover, since parenting skills are specific to individuals, I'm puzzled that you'd argue that a father/mother parenting team can always be assumed to be optimum. Such generalities may indicate prejudice.

Yes you do have an interest in promoting an ideology. Just be honest.

There is an extensive body of research that have been accumulated over many, many years. It shows that the optimum for children is to be raised by their own biological father and mother who love each other.
It is not always the case as there are immature parents out there and our culture is supporting divorces, single parenting and all the promiscuous possibilities you can think off.
Recent research on parenting using the names of universities and so and so institutes without disclosing the fact that they were done by homosexuals and lesbians are not impressing me. Most of their criterias are based on some external factors any way.
Most parents who have raised children successfully have more common sense than these so called studies and can see through them. Believe me.

I think the term "fanatical" is probably makes sense in reference to people who presume to model G-d's love on earth and who call for the execution of gays for being gay. You are of course free to argue that such a attitude is reasonable, workable, or compatible with "Family Theology."

You can monsterize these people as much as you want Their overall public body of work does not match your description. And you accuse me of prejudice.....

As far as I know, Jesus never had anything to say about gays or the merits of same sex marriage.

That is your own interpretation of Jesus and the overall directions from God in the bible on marriage and family. Every one in the world struggles with the issue of sexuality because it is rooted in the human fall itself. Gay or not gay, sexuality is an area of struggle for every one (misuse of love)

It has been said that proponents of SS marriage have a hard time convincing people of the need for it. I suspect many folks don't even see the debate the issues because they don't see how the debate would affect them one way or another. The antigay crowd that wants to convince others of a need to oppose SS marriage are in the same boat, especially since they are apparently unable to make a compelling case for why people shouldn't have a right to choose same-sex marriage.

Netti, your colors are very clear. Your mind is made up. You do not even write as someone who want to appear impartial on this issue when you really do have a beef in it.

You call one side "proponents of ss marriage" and the other side "anti gay crowd." Someone objective would write "opponents of ss marriage" or "proponents of traditional marriage." You love to describe them as haters for your own purpose

You constantly bash the side you hate. Once again just be honest.

 

[iBrian]

Netti, your colors are very clear. Your mind is made up. You do not even write as someone who want to appear impartial on this issue when you really do have a beef in it.

I'm curious, soleil10 - in what way are different?

Simply asking.

 

[Netti-Netti]

There is an extensive body of research that have been accumulated over many, many years. It shows that the optimum for children is to be raised by their own biological father and mother who love each other.

Links?

Their overall public body of work does not match your description.

Since you haven't provided any links to the overall public body of work, it's impossible for me or anyone else to evaluate it.

You love to describe them as haters for your own purpose

Your suggestion that I used "anti gay crowd" terminology in a perjorative way is silly. As for, your suggestion that I have "a purpose" strikes me as a rather weak attempt to avoid confronting the fact that you are unable to add anything substantive and specific to the debate and are now reduced to a semantic quibble.

Believe me.

Of course that's crux: What reasons have you given for anyone to believe you?

Btw, I'm willing to look at any chapter and verse you have that sheds light on Jesus' views on gays and/or on the merits of same sex marriage.

 

[seattlegal]

Note to self: "Cancel notary class."

Too much information is exactly the problem though. The bible is clear about privacy, and right now there is a little too much invasion of it in the name of righteousness. Its actually not unthinkable (shiver) that somebody might establish such a notary service.

You're right. If there is no privacy, then there can be no intimacy. If there can be no intimacy, you undermine marriage, (as well as any other intimate relationship,) and along with it, the family unit.

 

[citizenzen]

What will we argue about when same-sex marriage becomes a non-issue?

 

[Dream]

Seattlegal, right now if you say 'Marriage' the biggest emotional response you'll get from most people is fear.

 

[seattlegal]

Wait a minute, wasn't it Jerry Falwell who said that Tinky-Winky of the Teletubbies was gay? (or is that just a rumor?)

...yet the religion still provides certain functionality in society.

Yes, something that's roughly equivalent to the social function of gossip.

I see what you mean. Perhaps the leaders of both sides consider this gossip and propaganda to be "spiritual warfare."

I see how one could easily become enraptured by all of the intrigue, and forget about basic arguments all this jive supposedly is related to.

I consider most of it to be a load of hooey.

 

[seattlegal]

Seattlegal, right now if you say 'Marriage' the biggest emotional response you'll get from most people is fear.

Bwahahahaha!

 

[soleil10]

I'm curious, soleil10 - in what way are different?
Simply asking.

I am not going there. Peace

 

[soleil10]

What will we argue about when same-sex marriage becomes a non-issue?

Same sex "marriage" is an oxymoron to begin with

 

[soleil10]

Links?
Since you haven't provided any links to the overall public body of work, it's impossible for me or anyone else to evaluate it.
Your suggestion that I used "anti gay crowd" terminology in a perjorative way is silly. As for, your suggestion that I have "a purpose" strikes me as a rather weak attempt to avoid confronting the fact that you are unable to add anything substantive and specific to the debate and are now reduced to a semantic quibble.
Of course that's crux: What reasons have you given for anyone to believe you?
Btw, I'm willing to look at any chapter and verse you have that sheds light on Jesus' views on gays and/or on the merits of same sex marriage.

Based on you tone of questioning and your rhetoric whatever I say would mean nothing.

I can even write your response in advance.

Have a great day Netti. Everything is cool

 

[seattlegal]

Well, I guess it'll just be up to us pragmatic Generation X-ers to sort through this mess. {I mean, is anyone else out there who is actually addressing the issues instead up spewing more glop around? Why do we always get handed the mop?}

 

[citizenzen]

Same sex "marriage" is an oxymoron to begin with

I think it's a beautiful concept. Two consenting adults... able to freely express their love and devotion to each other... it's a beautiful thing.

You might want to get used to the idea.

 

[citizenzen]

What will we argue about when same-sex marriage becomes a non-issue?

Silly me... there's always abortion. How could I forget about that?

Suspect Is Identified in Killing of Abortion Doctor

 

[Snoopy]

{Is that too much information? }

Only completely.

s.

 

[ARMyers]

Marriage is an institution foreshadowing the union of Christ and the Virgin Woman (the doctrinally pure Ecclesia or body of believers). For two same-sex people to enter into this union would be considered unnatural or an "abomination" as it is often called. The stance on homosexuality made by the Bible is clear.

Homosexual actions are no worse or better than any lustful or lascivious acts. Rape, adultry, prostitution, sexually promiscuity, or sex outside of marriage all fit in the same category. These acts are all rooted with hedonism and furthered as being part of the world. Any person who maintains this focus and commits such acts is of the world and is of the same kind as Esau, Lot's wife, Ananias and Saphira, etc.

I would tell a homosexual the same as I would tell any man (for pretty much all men have an unwavering sexual appetite) to focus his mind away from his tendencies and forever focus on the Lord. He should stay unmarried and devote himself fully to doing the Lord's work. His struggle against the flesh would then be greatly rewarded by the Lord at Judgment.

But the ways of the world are naturally evil, so what does it matter. True Christians understand that we can only change ourselves and spread the Truth in hopes of others changing themselves. We are to separate ourselves from the evils and corruptions of this world and set our hopes for when Christ returns. In other words, we are not surprised that these things happen and we do not concern ourselves.

I will say that every nation that lets loose immorality has fallen (this is the Lord's will). Augustus Caesar instituted several moral laws and laws promoting family and the Roman Empire grew by leaps and bounds. Cyrus the Persian was blessed for his laws concerning morality and the Jews, as was Nebachudnezzar when he succombed to the Lord (after much trial) and treated the Jews fairly. But all nations are undone by their wickedness as will the United States be. All the nations of the world will laugh and say, "Is this the mighty America? Is this the one that made the nations tremble? Where is your big stick? Where is your commanding voice? You have been thrust down because of your hubris and because of your evil. You are Tyre, Egypt, Babylon, Greece, Medeo-Persia, Sodom and Gemmorah, the Philistines, Rome, Germany and Israel. You are one of us." All nations fall because of their wickedness. The United States sprouted so quickly because of their adherence to the Law of Moses (in their common legislative laws; the Constitution was Baron von Montisquieu and John Locke questionably taking from scripture) and will be undone by their tinkering or abandoning of it.

Thank you.

 

[Snoopy]

Same sex "marriage" is an oxymoron to begin with

Perhaps you are perceiving losing some sort of war because the arrant nonsense that is sometimes espoused in the name of Christianity is turning people to the other side of the battle lines?


s.