West vs. "Muslim World"--lets discuss the obvious

InshaAllah, we will start studying Al-Qur'an more. The Noble Qur'an is about equality, human rights and true justice. If all Muslims would adhere to the Qur'anic principles, we would be the leaders of the world, just like the Ummah once was.
 
What an interesting and saddening article. This line jumped out at me "In Karachi last weekend, the brother of a bombing victim told me that he believes the CIA controls the Taliban, and planted the bomb that killed his brother."

I have heard many Egyptians say the Sharm el Sheikh bombings were the wrok of America and Israel .. these are not uneducated people and they really believe it.

The "West" did itself no favours by backing radical groups during the cold war and even less favours by telling lies about Saddam's WMD cache. I'm afraid once those lies were exposed it open the floodgates for all kinds of conspiracy theories to be supported.

Sorry this is off topic, just responding to what is posted.
 
Muslimwoman said:
What an interesting and saddening article. This line jumped out at me "In Karachi last weekend, the brother of a bombing victim told me that he believes the CIA controls the Taliban, and planted the bomb that killed his brother."

I have heard many Egyptians say the Sharm el Sheikh bombings were the wrok of America and Israel .. these are not uneducated people and they really believe it.

The "West" did itself no favours by backing radical groups during the cold war and even less favours by telling lies about Saddam's WMD cache. I'm afraid once those lies were exposed it open the floodgates for all kinds of conspiracy theories to be supported.

Sorry this is off topic, just responding to what is posted.
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i think that there is a lot of denial amongst Muslims, I was talking to a Muslim friend last year who told me that it was Hindus masquerading as Muslims who were behind a lot of the terrorist attacks in Pakistan ? He also believes 9/11 is an America conspiracy.
 
NiceCupOfTea said:
i think that there is a lot of denial amongst Muslims, I was talking to a Muslim friend last year who told me that it was Hindus masquerading as Muslims who were behind a lot of the terrorist attacks in Pakistan ? He also believes 9/11 is an America conspiracy.
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The thing is that Pakistan Army did catch some hindu RAW spies posing as Imams, who were calling for bombings in Pakistan (by giving it a religious twist). Some of them were killed & were found uncircumcised. Muslims in that region get circumcised soon after birth. Its impossible for a muslim to remain uncircumcised in that region. Some of the "Islamic terrorist hideouts" had Viagra, beer & porn.

911 should be considered an American mumbo jumbo unless conclusively & impartially proven otherwise. By "proven otherwise" I dont mean some jingoistic melodrama originating from CIA, unleashed upon Americans by their mainstream media.
 
farhan said:
The thing is that Pakistan Army did catch some hindu RAW spies posing as Imams, who were calling for bombings in Pakistan (by giving it a religious twist). Some of them were killed & were found uncircumcised. Muslims in that region get circumcised soon after birth. Its impossible for a muslim to remain uncircumcised in that region. Some of the "Islamic terrorist hideouts" had Viagra, beer & porn.
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Salam Farhan

Do you have any links to reliable sources for this .. it wouldn't surprise me at all but would like to read more about it.
 
Waalikumus salam

Right now i dont have any links in english. The information originated from Pak Army & some respected pakistani journalists over a period of 2-3 years, most of it in Urdu.

Try using google, its pretty old info, so you might find some of it. Viagra story is the latest one, came a few months ago.
 
Muslimwoman said:
What an interesting and saddening article. This line jumped out at me "In Karachi last weekend, the brother of a bombing victim told me that he believes the CIA controls the Taliban, and planted the bomb that killed his brother."
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Western media doesent pick upon this. There are two different main talibans right now in Afghan-Pak region. One are the orignal taliban (Mulla Umar group), that once were helped by CIA, ISI & Saudia. They werent good slaves so US had to fire them, & substitute with Karzai democracy. Right now these Taliban are fighting against occupying troups

There is another Pakistani Taliban group. They have literally been disowned by Mulla Omar group. They blow bombs in Pakistan for no particular reason (Takfiri ideology slash economic injustices). They get wepons that are so sophisticated that even Pak Army doesnt have them. So directly or indirectly they are getting support from occuping forces in Afghanistan (Because of geo-strategic issues, China & Russia wont even dare to help them, Iran wont help them either because of theo-strategic :D issues)

There are two other taliban groups, Haqani & Hikmatyar, both dont attack Pakistani civilians. There is a newly emerging Panjabi Taliban, who go terrorist because of economic injustices & are supported by Pakistan Taliban group.

SO its not a villian, hero, goodness shall prevail style story. things are way too complicated then they are shown on the media.
 
Muslimwoman said:
The "West" did itself no favours by backing radical groups during the cold war and even less favours by telling lies about Saddam's WMD cache. I'm afraid once those lies were exposed it open the floodgates for all kinds of conspiracy theories to be supported.
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Well said.
 
The "West" did itself no favours by backing radical groups during the cold war and even less favours by telling lies about Saddam's WMD cache.
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Here is the WMD's:
500 tons of Uranium found in Iraq at the repository at Tawaitha. 1.8 tons were low enriched.



Reported in The NY Times, May 22, 2004 edition.




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Does one require more than this to qualify for WMD?
IMO, if one rquires more than this ---then that person is a propagandist.

Is this clear enough?
 
Bhaktajan said:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/dailybeast/20100525/ts_dailybeast/8211_pakistanaskswhydoyouhateus
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I read the article, too. I have worked in tech support call centers as well as an outbound call center. Working in a call center is like being a dentist, except that you don't get paid like a dentist. People don't want to talk to you. I think it makes perfect sense that this was one of the areas where the US gets criticism. Call centers are a method for big businesses to save money by cutting costs on service. Sometimes customers take it the wrong way, so customers sometimes dump their frustration on a service rep that's just trying to make a living. Companies pipe the resentful customer overseas. End result is bad feelings between Pakistanis, Indians, and Americans. It doesn't mean Americans hate foreigners. All I can say is, I hope that at least the New Jersey calls aren't piped oversees. That would surely get us all into a war, because those callers are the most demanding I have ever encountered among all fifty states.
 
bhaktajan said:
Here is the WMD's:
500 tons of Uranium found in Iraq at the repository at Tawaitha. 1.8 tons were low enriched.
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Thanks for the edit, your post makes sense now.

I am not sure where you have been for the past 6 years but it was proven that the NY Times was getting it's information directly from the Whitehouse and that information was proven to be false.

The CIA's own final report in 2005 stated no weapons were found CIA?s final report: No WMD found in Iraq - Conflict in Iraq- msnbc.com

This was all exposed by the British newspapers, you can google "iraq no wmd" and see reports going back to 2004.

So no WMD were ever found in Iraq and because of these lies all the conspiracy theorists can point to this and say see it's all a plot
 
You have replied with a Western News Story [Dated: April 25, 2005]:
CIA?s final report: No WMD found in Iraq - Conflict in Iraq- msnbc.com

updated 9:24 p.m. ET, Mon., April 25, 2005

WASHINGTON - In his final word, the CIA’s top weapons inspector in Iraq said Monday that the hunt for weapons of mass destruction has “gone as far as feasible” and has found nothing, closing an investigation into the purported programs of Saddam Hussein that were used to justify the 2003 invasion.
“After more than 18 months, the WMD investigation and debriefing of the WMD-related detainees has been exhausted,”

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So apparently, 500 tons of Uranium found in Iraq at the repository at Tawaitha. 1.8 tons were low enriched. ---Is not yet enough in your opinion.

What you have written is that the actual munitions with the war heads were no found ---just (500) x 2,000 Short Pounds = 1 Million Pounds [453,592 Kilos] + 1,630 Kilo of enriched.

Despots who harbor this much uranium will be classified as terrorists.

Even 5 years after . . .
 
BTW,

This is what is said in your CIA MSNBC Report: CIA?s final report: No WMD found in Iraq - Conflict in Iraq- msnbc.com

Warnings about Saddam’s experts
The survey group also provided warnings.
The addenda conclude that Saddam’s programs created a pool of experts now available to develop and produce weapons and many will be seeking work. While most will probably turn to the “benign civil sector,” the danger remains that “hostile foreign governments, terrorists or insurgents may seek Iraqi expertise.”
“Because a single individual can advance certain WMD activities, it remains an important concern,” one addendum said.
Another addendum also noted that military forces in Iraq may continue to find small numbers of degraded chemical weapons — most likely misplaced or improperly destroyed before the 1991 Gulf War. In an insurgent’s hands, “the use of a single even ineffectual chemical weapon would likely cause more terror than deadlier conventional explosives,” another addendum said.
And still another said the survey group found some potential nuclear-related equipment was “missing from heavily damaged and looted sites.” Yet, because of the deteriorating security situation in Iraq, the survey group was unable to determine what happened to the equipment, which also had alternate civilian uses.
“Some of it probably has been sold for its scrap value. Other pieces might have been disassembled” and converted into motors or condensers, an addendum said. “Still others could have been taken intact to preserve their function.”

...The Iraq Survey Group believes “it was unlikely that an official transfer of WMD material from Iraq to Syria took place. However, ISG was unable to rule out unofficial movement of limited WMD-related materials.”

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Bhaktajan's NOTE: Journalists make a living by selling "Man Bites Dog Stories" ---and then takes holiday in the bahamas far from the un-washed masses.
 
bhaktajan said:
What you have written is that the actual munitions with the war heads were no found ---just (500) x 2,000 Short Pounds = 1 Million Pounds [453,592 Kilos] + 1,630 Kilo of enriched.

Despots who harbor this much uranium will be classified as terrorists.

Even 5 years after . . .
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As much as you want this to be true and are clearly trying to mislead people I'm afraid you need to read the news report about it

500 tons of uranium shipped from Iraq, Pentagon says - CNN.com

which states "He said yellowcake uranium is a commonly traded commodity used for nuclear power generation. It is not enriched and cannot be used without first going through a complicated enrichment process".

It was the Iraqi government that asked for this to be removed according to the news article.

You might want to consider why there are only 8 results in google for this story and of those only one from a reliable news source (that I can find on my google search). Considering the mass destruction this war has caused and the support certain Western governments have lost due to the lies about the war wouldn't you think if this uranium could even loosely be considered wmd every Western government and news source would be crowing from the rooftops about finally being vindicated in going to war?

Now can you show any report from any authrotiy which states any wmd were ever found in Iraq?
 
As much as you want this to be true and are clearly trying to mislead people I'm afraid you need to read the news report about it
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HEY!

Do you see the Irony here?????

You are the optimist ---quoting secular news Agents ---waxing poetic!

I am the pessimest ---quoting the CIA Final Report [which you kindly posted for my referrence herein] ---who waningly warn of destruction by maniacs!

"Some see the glass half-full; some see the glass half-empty" ---who performs the service to fill the glass; who receives the service to fill the glass.

I post #38, Why Do you label me the DECEIVER {"trying to mislead people"} ---I HIGHLIGHTED what was said in an article that you provided for our review!!!!!!

Then you give me an other article . . . Next you'll say it is all mis-information . . .

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I'm afraid you need to read the news report about it
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Yeah, you got that right . . .

I read the first report and then high lighted the WARNINGS.

You want to sort-of change the subject [stay tuned folks!] ---and then you kindly advise me of yor fear that: "you need to read the news report"

Western News Reports are Much Much Much better than:
the "NEWS REPORTS FROM DESPOTIC TYRANTS TOWN-CRYER'S SHOUTS".

Harray for Western News Reports from the halls of Mantazuma to the shores of tripoli.
 
Amica said:
So. My question to the Muslims is: why should today's Westerners respect Muslims' religious obligations (i.e. hijab) in their countries, when non-Muslims are treated way unfairly in majority Muslim states?
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My answer is that what happens in "Muslim states" doesn't matter to me; I want my government to be tolerant regardless of what goes on in other countries-- tolerant for the sake of tolerance.

To take rights away from Muslims as a result of what is going on in other countries would be to take a huge step back to the Middle Ages-- precisely where all intolerant governments of all sorts currently reside.
 
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