The 4 types of Sins

[soleil10]

Was it a cheap shot because this particular commandment was limited only to the Israelites, whom you wish to use to support your assertion of the importance of fleshly lineage, or is it a cheap shot because Deut 18 calls "inquiring of the dead" something detestable to the LORD?

Matt 17:3-4 And behold, there appeared unto them Moses and Elijah talking with him.
And Peter answered, and said unto Jesus, Lord, it is good for us to be here: if thou wilt, I will make here three tabernacles; one for thee, and one for Moses, and one for Elijah.

Jesus inquires of the dead.

What Deut 18 must be talking are the lower parts of the spiritual world which are not a good place to communicate with. Jesus himself decended into hell

How do you know that your behavior today affects your past lineage? Is this magical thinking on your part?

I gave you two scriptures that have to do with the concept of "returned ressurrection" and the benefit of the age. Maybe it could be a theme for a different thread.

No, we are individuals.

What I meant by" we are not an island" is that we are connected to the past, the present and the future. Even in a family, the grand parents represent the past, the parents, the present and the children, the futur. In the same way we connect horizontally from the individuals to the family, the clan, the nation etc etc.
No individual can exist without parents.

Gee. I thought it was about changing oneself, rather than changing others.

I am saying that the past affects our present. The bible tells the story of God's plan for his creation, then the tragedy of the human fall and the slow return of humanity back to God.

My point is not about changing others instead of ourselves. Of course we need to change ourselves. The return to God requires to understand what has happened in the past as it affects our present.

When Abraham failed in the sacrifice of 3 animals, he restored it by being willing to offer his own son. God required a greater sacrifice in order to restore the failure of the previous one

 

[17th Angel]

We are connected to our lineage not just physically but also spiritually.
What we do has consequences on our children too

Your god made this call? lol what an unjust ass he must be.

 

[soleil10]

S elf
I nflicted
N onsense
In our sermon today our preacher discussed that the original sin was Adam 'thinking' he was seperate from G!d. and that no such seperation has ever existed as far as G!d is concerned...that is our thinking...

Wil, how do you think this un-existing separation will finally be solved and the world starting from the individual, family etc etc will be at peace.

Your preacher uses the example of Jesus telling to Peter, get behind me Satan. Does he believes Satan exists and the human fall took place ?

 

[wil]

Namaste Soliel,

No he doesn't, believe satan exists that is.

As he described evil is the word we give for seperation from G!d. Get behind me Satan is another way of asking negative perceptions and lack leave your mind.

I do like how you said un-existing seperation as it is our perception that causes it to exist, when in reality it doesn't. Like the sun shining outside and we close our curtains..doesn't mean the sun still isn't shining, just that we chose to ignore it.

So how do we solve this....one at a time. Taking the log out of our own eye. And realizing our oneness with G!d as Jesus did, and living our lives in that manner.

 

[Francis king]

jesus said... I have come to give you a New Testament...

stuff the OT- Jesus isn't there, is he? Oh, some old fart mentions something about a Messiah a few times, but nobody ever says his name will be Jesus and he will be a Jew from Galillee, do they?

Christians that lay great store in the OT are missing the point of Jesus. You want to read about the potted histories of a load of old fogies, people who heard voices in their heads telling them to murder their children. Great, read on. The rest of it... the first five books of Judaism, badly reworked, and some history crap... there's no Jesus there! Burn the OT... at least, as fodder for the fire it would have some merit...

Christian... the clue is in the name...

 

[soleil10]

Namaste Soliel,
No he doesn't, believe satan exists that is.
As he described evil is the word we give for seperation from G!d. Get behind me Satan is another way of asking negative perceptions and lack leave your mind.
I do like how you said un-existing seperation as it is our perception that causes it to exist, when in reality it doesn't. Like the sun shining outside and we close our curtains..doesn't mean the sun still isn't shining, just that we chose to ignore it.
So how do we solve this....one at a time. Taking the log out of our own eye. And realizing our oneness with G!d as Jesus did, and living our lives in that manner.

Within your beliefs, what does Messiah and salvation mean ? do we need one or we do it all by ourself ?

 

[soleil10]

Your god made this call? lol what an unjust ass he must be.

Why do you hate God so much ?

 

[wil]

jesus said... I have come to give you a New Testament...

Christian... the clue is in the name...

Namaste Francis,

He also said...I have not come to break the law...

And he wasn't a Christian, but a Jew, and never rejected that.

Within your beliefs, what does Messiah and salvation mean ? do we need one or we do it all by ourself ?

Do we all need Jesus? No not all, Christians do. Others may find salvation in Islam, Buddhism, Hinduism, Judaism, or secularism.

Jesus as we say is our elder brother and wayshower. He blazed the path for us to follow. Jews find enough in their texts, Muslims need more than Jesus's words and deeds to grock it all.

 

[soleil10]

Namaste Francis,
He also said...I have not come to break the law...
And he wasn't a Christian, but a Jew, and never rejected that. Do we all need Jesus? No not all, Christians do. Others may find salvation in Islam, Buddhism, Hinduism, Judaism, or secularism.
Jesus as we say is our elder brother and wayshower. He blazed the path for us to follow. Jews find enough in their texts, Muslims need more than Jesus's words and deeds to grock it all.

Wil,let me ask my question a different way.

What does the word or concept of Messiah means ?

Do you need one and what would be the benefit for you to have a Messiah ?

I am talking here about Messiah within the Xstian Sphere

 

[wil]

Wil,let me ask my question a different way.

What does the word or concept of Messiah means ?

Do you need one and what would be the benefit for you to have a Messiah ?

I am talking here about Messiah within the Xstian Sphere

Let's see are you looking for my understanding, the dictionary one, the jewish one, or the Xstian one?

I think I've already told you. My understanding is we've got someone who showed us the way to our salvation. Now it is upto us to follow. (I don't believe saying a few words does it)

 

[soleil10]

Let's see are you looking for my understanding, the dictionary one, the jewish one, or the Xstian one?
I think I've already told you. My understanding is we've got someone who showed us the way to our salvation. Now it is upto us to follow. (I don't believe saying a few words does it)

Your understanding

 

[seattlegal]

Matt 17:3-4 And behold, there appeared unto them Moses and Elijah talking with him.
And Peter answered, and said unto Jesus, Lord, it is good for us to be here: if thou wilt, I will make here three tabernacles; one for thee, and one for Moses, and one for Elijah.

Jesus inquires of the dead.

The passage continues on:

Matt 17:1-13

1 After six days (A) Jesus took Peter, James, and his brother John, and led them up on a high mountain by themselves. (B) 2 He was transformed [a] in front of them, and His face shone like the sun. Even His clothes became as white as the light. (C) 3 Suddenly, Moses and Elijah appeared to them, talking with Him. 4 Then Peter said to Jesus, "Lord, it's good for us to be here! If You want, I will make [b] three tabernacles here: one for You, one for Moses, and one for Elijah." (D)
5 While he was still speaking, suddenly a bright cloud covered [c] them, and a voice from the cloud said:
This is My beloved Son.
I take delight in Him.
Listen to Him! (E)
6 When the disciples (F) heard it, they fell facedown and were terrified.
7 Then Jesus came up, touched them, and said, "Get up; don't be afraid." (G) 8 When they looked up they saw no one except Him [d]; Jesus alone. 9 As they were coming down from the mountain, Jesus commanded them, (H) "Don't tell anyone about the vision until the Son of Man is raised[e] from the dead."
10 So the disciples questioned Him, "Why then do the scribes say that Elijah must come first?" (I)
11 "Elijah is coming [f] and will restore everything," He replied. (J) [g] 12 "But I tell you: Elijah has already come, and they didn't recognize him. On the contrary, they did whatever they pleased to him. In the same way the Son of Man is going to suffer at their hands." (K) [h] 13 Then the disciples understood that He spoke to them about John the Baptist.​

Jesus himself said it was a vision, and that Elijah represented John the Baptist in that vision.

What Deut 18 must be talking are the lower parts of the spiritual world which are not a good place to communicate with. Jesus himself decended into hell

Do you have any scriptures to support this idea?

I gave you two scriptures that have to do with the concept of "returned ressurrection" and the benefit of the age. Maybe it could be a theme for a different thread.

I'm going to have to disagree with you regarding your interpretation of the scriptures. That's OK, though.

What I meant by" we are not an island" is that we are connected to the past, the present and the future. Even in a family, the grand parents represent the past, the parents, the present and the children, the futur. In the same way we connect horizontally from the individuals to the family, the clan, the nation etc etc.
No individual can exist without parents.

Then why did you write this instead? :

I believe that there is a relation between me and my ancestors no only physically but also spiritually. I am responsible for myself of course. I also know that in the same way what I do good or bad will affect my spouse and children. I also know that it affect my lineage, past and future

I am saying that the past affects our present. The bible tells the story of God's plan for his creation, then the tragedy of the human fall and the slow return of humanity back to God.

My point is not about changing others instead of ourselves. Of course we need to change ourselves. The return to God requires to understand what has happened in the past as it affects our present.

When Abraham failed in the sacrifice of 3 animals, he restored it by being willing to offer his own son. God required a greater sacrifice in order to restore the failure of the previous one

Now I see it differently. I see animal sacrifice as being a substitute for human sacrifice, which was practiced during Abraham's time. (Lev 17:1-4, Isa 66:3, Gen 49:6)

 

[soleil10]

The passage continues on:Matt 17:1-131 Suddenly, Moses and Elijah appeared to them, talking with Him. While he was still speaking, suddenly a bright cloud covered [c] them, and a voice from the cloud said:This is My beloved Son.I take delight in Him.Listen to Him! (E)6 When the disciples (F) heard it, they fell facedown and were terrified.7 Then Jesus came up, touched them, and said, "Get up; don't be afraid." (G) 8 When they looked up they saw no one except Him [d]; Jesus alone. 9 As they were coming down from the mountain, Jesus commanded them, (H) "Don't tell anyone about the vision until the Son of Man is raised[e] from the dead."Jesus himself said it was a vision, and that Elijah represented John the Baptist in that vision.

Then what is the difference with talking with the dead. We have 5 spiritual senses. Spiritual Vision is one, spiritual hearing is another
By the way John the Baptist denied that he was Elijah and made Jesus appear as a liar in front of the Jewish people.

Do you have any scriptures to support this idea?

The scriptures you posted already have the answer. They clearly show that God was referring with communication with low places in the spiritual world.

I'm going to have to disagree with you regarding your interpretation of the scriptures. That's OK, though.
I forgive you (smile). I do not know how to get the smiley face next to my post

Then why did you write this instead? :Now I see it differently. I see animal sacrifice as being a substitute for human sacrifice, which was practiced during Abraham's time. (Lev 17:1-4, Isa 66:3, Gen 49:6)

In the old testament the spiritual level after the human fall was quite low they had animal sacrifices. Later on the 10 commandments came

 

[seattlegal]

Then what is the difference with talking with the dead. We have 5 spiritual senses. Spiritual Vision is one, spiritual hearing is another

Interpreting dreams and visions is quite different, wouldn't you say? (Remember Pharaoh's dream and how Joseph provided an interpretation for it?)

By the way John the Baptist denied that he was Elijah and made Jesus appear as a liar in front of the Jewish people.

John the Baptist was not literally Elijah. However, in the vision of the transfiguration, Elijah represented John the Baptist.

Do you have any scriptures to support this idea?

The scriptures you posted already have the answer. They clearly show that God was referring with communication with low places in the spiritual world.

Oh, you mean with the DEAD?

I forgive you (smile). I do not know how to get the smiley face next to my post.

Click on the smiley to the right of the reply box, or simply type this:

[noparse][/noparse]

In the old testament the spiritual level after the human fall was quite low they had animal sacrifices. Later on the 10 commandments came

And they continued on afterwards, encoded in the Law.

 

[soleil10]

Interpreting dreams and visions is quite different, wouldn't you say? (Remember Pharaoh's dream and how Joseph provided an interpretation for it?)

Seattle, you keep moving to a different subject and avoid really answering. I got used ot it by now

John the Baptist was not literally Elijah. However, in the vision of the transfiguration, Elijah represented John the Baptist.

I know that. That was not the point I was making

Oh, you mean with the DEAD?

like Moses and Elijah. Yes

Click on the smiley to the right of the reply box, or simply type this: [noparse][/noparse]
Thanks so much. Now this was a direct answer. I will try it

 

[wil]

Seattle, you keep moving to a different subject and avoid really answering. I got used ot it by now

We've already got a joke thread...

 

[seattlegal]

We've already got a joke thread...

LOL! Thank you, wil!

 

[seattlegal]

We've already got a joke thread...

LOL! Thank you, wil!

Speaking of running jokes, why are you always here when I'm throwing my bucket of water?

SPLASH!
{Do you think you could bring the Lysol? We've got one incoming from excursions to the lower astral plane...}

 

[17th Angel]

Why do you hate God so much ?

How could I possibly be do otherwise from your explination/understanding?

He uses blanket punishments...... That is the makings of a close minded *****.

Some bloke what 4,000 years or something ago, did something.... And that is my freaking fault? lol.... What a numbnuts.....

 

[soleil10]

How could I possibly be do otherwise from your explination/understanding?
He uses blanket punishments...... That is the makings of a close minded *****. Some bloke what 4,000 years or something ago, did something.... And that is my freaking fault? lol.... What a numbnuts.....

What our ancestors did is not our fault but it affected us. We are their descendants.