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Okay, let's try and not push on either the personal attacks, or direct attacks on religion, please.

Such comments are easy to dish out, but rarely well received, so let's try and keep on topic please, thanks. :)

The point c0de is raising is worth addressing, rather than distracting from.

After all, many historical figures well regarded in both the religious and secular worlds rarely conform to modern Western ideas of sexual best practices, especially in terms of the age of their partner brides or simply sexual preferences. :)

However, the distinct social element (marriage as a form of social security, rather than physical desire) as was often the case historically is also being overlooked.
 
.@ Alex

Can you explain why you are applying artificial and economically generated moral standards (that were only adopted by your society recently) on the rest of the world? What gives you the RIGHT to judge these societies when your own culture/society is so clearly imperfect?


Because I am commenting on the topic of marrying children? And I myself do not do this nor do I bung old people into hold folkes homes.... Which I also agreed is wrong... But whatever you want to dish out about the west.... The fact is still that marrying children is messed up lol.... As I do neither I can sit on my cloud of judgement :D
 
Okay, let's try and not push on either the personal attacks, or direct attacks on religion, please.

Such comments are easy to dish out, but rarely well received, so let's try and keep on topic please, thanks. :)

The point c0de is raising is worth addressing, rather than distracting from.

After all, many historical figures well regarded in both the religious and secular worlds rarely conform to modern Western ideas of sexual best practices, especially in terms of the age of their partner brides or simply sexual preferences. :)

However, the distinct social element (marriage as a form of social security, rather than physical desire) as was often the case historically is also being overlooked.

lol, that really is laughable. He can say he despises everyone and you think his points worth addressing! The only response this guy needs is anti-psychotic drugs.
 
lol, that really is laughable. He can say he despises everyone and you think his points worth addressing! The only response this guy needs is anti-psychotic drugs.

He was talking about societies and governments - I read "everyone" as "every one" in reference to these.

I'm sure if he truly "despised everyone" then he wouldn't care about his family and would live in a hole in the ground somewhere. That's not what he's suggesting.

Strange - I actually thought you'd have leapt into agreement with c0de about the limitations and flaws of the world's societies and their governments - across the board, without exception. :)
 
He was talking about societies and governments - I read "everyone" as "every one" in reference to these.

I'm sure if he truly "despised everyone" then he wouldn't care about his family and would live in a hole in the ground somewhere. That's not what he's suggesting.

Strange - I actually thought you'd have leapt into agreement with c0de about the limitations and flaws of the world's societies and their governments - across the board, without exception. :)
That is precisely what he is suggesting.
From what I read he wants to jump into a hole in the ground without his family. Lets hope he takes no one down there with him.
As for agreeing with him.. he despises western culture.... I complain about its hypocrisies and deceits..not the same thing at all... we are worlds apart.
c0de chooses his words carefully...he thinks he is very clever, I think it well to read his words equally carefully.
 
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Tao + Alex





@ Tao

That is precisely what he is suggesting.
From what I read he wants to jump into a hole in the ground without his family. Lets hope he takes no one down there with him.
As for agreeing with him.. he despises western culture.... I complain about its hypocrisies and deceits..not the same thing at all... we are worlds apart.
c0de chooses his words carefully...he thinks he is very clever, I think it well to read his words equally carefully.
Then I suggest you focus on answering the objections those words raise against your arguments (and give the psychoanalysis a rest professor.)





@ Alex


The fact is still that marrying children is messed up lol....
Says who? Your own society which only recently decided that it was "messed up" because it no longer fit into the economic models that it currently functions under?


Yet continues to reap the benefits of the western world.... ;X
You mean the same "benefits" which it "reaped" from hundreds of years of slavery, looting, pillaging and conquering? Those "benefits"?


I can sit on my cloud of judgement
How nice for you.
 
just proves my point really that child brides are acceptable in Islam
 
.


Alex + G2G



@ Alex

Monkey see Monkey do :/

so true...

What can I say! I love the bandwagon!





@ G2G


just proves my point really that child brides are acceptable in Islam

All this proves is that you still haven't understood the fact that the age of marriage has nothing to do with religious values in society. Trying to link the two was the essence of your "judgment", and the fact that you have ignored all the evidence in favor of your initial assessment, also proves the nature of your own biases.

This is why I refused to apologize to you because I knew your real motives were far from sound and rooted in a deep hatred of everything Islamic.
 
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All this proves is that you still haven't understood the fact that the age of marriage has nothing to do with religious values in society. Trying to link the two was the essence of your "judgment", and the fact that you have ignored all the evidence in favor of your initial assessment, also proves the nature of your own biases.

This is why I refused to apologize to you because I knew your real motives were far from sound and rooted in a deep hatred of everything Islamic.

no not really code, i am not passing judgment here, but you are yet again :(

i have no hatred of Islam so please withdraw your allegation :(
 
Troll job?? I think not. We are currently getting the western media's and the biased side of these events. I was asking for an Islamic viewpoint, seeking to understand how a Muslim saw the same events.
Two things are out there which I'd like to hear perspectives on.


The killings in Texas. How do you see it, what do you think will be the reprecussions.


The story circulating of 450 men in Gaza marrying young (way preteen) girls and Hamas paying them each $500 to do so. Is it true?
How I wish Muslimwoman was around as she would have simply provided an answer.

Code, I was expecting something along the lines of, "The guy had issues obviously and went off like any crackpot" and "Yeah this is a local custom, like camel racing, they aren't really married, it is a ceremonial thing, the child goes back to live with her parents...."

I don't know how you see it, what you think, hence my reason for asking. I believe the big issue in the world is you fellas get onesided news from your sources we get one sided 'news' from our sources and neither gets the whole story...

And now my question is why you refuse to simply answer the question?
 
Troll job?? I think not. We are currently getting the western media's and the biased side of these events. I was asking for an Islamic viewpoint, seeking to understand how a Muslim saw the same events.How I wish Muslimwoman was around as she would have simply provided an answer.

thats what it looked like inflammatory post then disappeared under your bridge like any good troll :rolleyes:
 
thats what it looked like inflammatory post then disappeared under your bridge like any good troll :rolleyes:
Namaste G2G,

I was gone on vacation but...it is interesting, seens like the pot calling the kettle black what do you find inflammatory about my posts 1 & 3 as compared to your post 5?
 
The prophet Mohamed PBUH married Aisha when she was six years old so the marriage of preteen girls is perfectly acceptable in Islam.

just proves my point really that child brides are acceptable in Islam

i have no hatred of Islam so please withdraw your allegation :(

If this is true GlorytoGod I am a little confused as to why you would make the same uneducated statement (as above) twice on one thread?

Perhaps you would be better to ask Muslims what Islam says rather than telling us?

There are a number of countries where child brides are still used ... these include some African countries (where Muslim and Christian girls are sold off like cattle by their families or married off to strengthen tribal ties), Afghanistan, Pakistan (both usually in rural areas and from Muslim and other religious backgrounds) and Saudi Arabia allows marriage at puberty but I am aware of a divorce case for an 8 year old girl (I believe saudi allows child brides but does not allow consumation until puberty).

Virtually all of the child brides I have read about have been married off to pay debts off, rather than for the sexual desires of the groom.

What your statement fails to do however is question whether this is a cultural or religious practice and fails to ask how regularly this happens. Most Muslim countries have either the same or even higher legal marriage ages than Britain.

Also something you need to understand is just because the Prophet Mohamed (pbuh) did something does NOT mean all Muslims can, or every Muslim man would allow himself 9 wives based on what the Prophet did. Ask virtually any Muslim and they will tell you that the marriage of the Prophet to Aisha (pbut) was about strengthening ties and nothing to do with marrying little girls per se.

How I wish Muslimwoman was around as she would have simply provided an answer.

Boo .... gosh i feel like a genie lol, I haven't visited the forum for so long ... my ears must have been burning today.

OK

to answer your OP Wil

the shooting of soldiers in America .... there is no answer and I honestly don't believe we will ever get the truth. Did he just flip or was he watching fundamentalist propaganda? We will never really know.

My personal guess is that he was posted to Iraq and knew he could not go to wage war against Muslims. He then started looking for answers on the net .... on what basis could he refuse to go. He probably ended up on more and more fundamental sites, which would feed his need for religious solace and build his hatred of the war over there.

Only a guess though.

The mass wedding ..... it took me a while to stop laughing LOL

I was then amazed at this thread ... can't anyone on this forum google? Muslims are trying to defend it and non-Muslims are simply going with the flow ... come on people RESEARCH.

Yes a mass wedding of 450 couples took place in gaza. Yes $500 was paid to each groom by Hamas (money gathered from their members amounting to 5% of their wage .... guessing but probably collected during ramadan as zakat (charity)) in this case to help young men who can't afford to marry get married.

In Arab countries the groom has to pay for a dowery and setting up the marital home ... many men in poor countries simply can't afford it so imagine what it's like for young men in an open prison like Gaza?!

The youngest BRIDE was 16 but most were 18.

So who are the little girls in the video? Sisters, nieces, cousins ... anyone little and cute basically. I could show you wedding photos from Islamic weddings in Egypt and all the little girls are dressed as brides (6 inches of make up included) and the little boys are dressed as grooms .... no idea why, they just think it looks cute, a bit like the little girls in pageants in US perhaps.

the girls make the most of these days, as the day makes them special. Women and men sit seperately during weddings but the little girls can go with the men, due to their age. So the girls revel in all the attention they get.

Simple answer to a silly rumour ... as usual.
 
Sorry just did some googling to see what is being said about the mass marriage .... amazing more people don't hurt themselves while scrambling to jump on the band wagon!!

Hamas denies holding mass kiddie marriage

A WND review of the video found some of the little girls, speaking in Arabic, state they are at the wedding of a family member. The girls interviewed do not say anything about themselves getting married.
Multiple calls to Palestinians who participated in the wedding affirmed the little girls are not themselves the brides.
Hamas, meanwhile, hailed the wedding ceremony as a victory.
"We are saying to the world and to America that you cannot deny us joy and happiness," Mahmoud al-Zahar, Hamas' chief in Gaza, told the grooms at the event.



Islamophobia. Ignorance Or Propaganda? | Gaza | Israel | Islamophobia | Foreign Matters | Sky News Blogs

This is the original story that started the whole thing ... no mention of mass child brides here though.

Gaza Wedding Report Provokes Paedo Hysteria Bartholomew’s Notes on Religion


Oh I forgot to say above .... in all Islamic weddings the women (including the bride) sit apart from the men. The actual marriage is performed between the groom and the guardian of the bride (usually her father). So you would see the Imam sitting at a table with the groom and the guardian, the groom and guardian hold hands under a cloth while the Imam performs the marriage. Then the marriage is pronounced .... then someone goes to tell the bride lol
 
I could show you wedding photos from Islamic weddings in Egypt and all the little girls are dressed as brides (6 inches of make up included) and the little boys are dressed as grooms .... no idea why, they just think it looks cute, a bit like the little girls in pageants in US perhaps.

Simple answer to a silly rumour ... as usual.
Namaste MW

and as usual thank you for your response!

The above reminded me of a picture on my shelf, of my Uncle's wedding, where I was ring bearer and my cousin, flower girl. We looked like little bride and groom and if the right pictures were taken and publicized the same distortions could have been made...
 
It is certainly frightening what people WANT to believe Wil, since I posted above I have been reading the comments left on the blogs I linked to. Even though the man who started the story off and was at the wedding denies the children were brides commenters simply will not have it ... they keep asking him for proof ... madness and just shows how anti-Muslim people are becoming.
 
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