God Did Not Bless Adam & Eve Sexual Union

S

soleil10

Guest
In Gen 1:28, God blessed A&E: Become fruitful (reach individual maturity), Multiply (become the first ideal family) and Subdue the earth.

Unfortunately later on as the human fall takes place, we find out that their first child Cain is born with the original sin which has since been transmited from generation to generation through the blood lineage regardless of how good someone is.

We can conclude that their sexual union was not blessed by God. They were still immature at the time and were supposed to wait. This would explain the commandement God gave them "do not eat of the fruit".

Their children were born outside of the Garden and out of wedlocks. Adam & Eve became the first dysfunctional family as we see the older son kill his younger brother.

God then had to prepare a new sinless Adam......to bring a sinless lineage, God's lineage. Jesus came as the second Adam.

This makes perfect sense to me. God blessed A&E union initially but they had to become frutiful first.

Any comments ?
 
Well, we can look to the original engineers who designed us with all these faults.
Not too bright.
 
shawn said:
Well, we can look to the original engineers who designed us with all these faults.Not too bright.
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True Love cannot exist without freedom and free will
Everything in the world go through periods of growth, ...everything

True love is vulnerable

The unconditional love of parents for their children until they grow to maturity is such an example.
 
soleil10 said:
The unconditional love of parents for their children until they grow to maturity is such an example.
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So God was a neglectful parent because He was not able to see them through to maturity?

If God can't manage that, how can we expect any mortal to?
 
Well, we can look to the original engineers who designed us with all these faults.Not too bright.
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Shawn,

In Gnostic terminology, not-too-bright engineers who design flaws into intelligent life forms are known as archons, and the really incompetent chief engineer (super-klutz) is called "the Demiurge." But Sophia put one over on the whole incompetent bunch of 'em. She breathed life into Adam, because whatever the archons tried to do just wasn't working. They were able to form the mud into a fairly respectable-looking human form, but the problem showed up the first time they tried to start his engine. They kept puffing and blowing, but couldn't get him to stand up! He just crawled around on the ground like a worm, and Sophia felt sorry for him.

See, she had to do something to salvage the situation, because she was accidentally the mother of the chief engineer and therefore, indirectly, of the whole incompetent bunch.

I guess I should have posted this on the Alternative board, but it was just too good an opening to resist. That's what happens when someone feeds me a straight line! :D

--Linda
 
citizenzen said:
So God was a neglectful parent because He was not able to see them through to maturity?
If God can't manage that, how can we expect any mortal to?
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God was not neglectful parent. He prepared the whole creation for them. He gave them a specific commandment to follow.
They had their own portion of responsibility.
 
So, sol are you saying that Adam and Eve were Bad, therefore theri descandants are also bad. But Jesus was good and his descandants are good? If so, who are jesus's descandants? as in bloodline...............?
 
greymare said:
So, sol are you saying that Adam and Eve were Bad, therefore theri descandants are also bad. But Jesus was good and his descandants are good? If so, who are jesus's descandants? as in bloodline...............?
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Jesus was not able to have physical descendants. If he could have started a new sinless lineage, God could have finally have His lineage on earth.

We ares still born from Satan' s lineage with the original sin.
 
soleil10 said:
Jesus was not able to have physical descendants. If he could have started a new sinless lineage, God could have finally have His lineage on earth.
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You haven't read Dan Brown, have you? :)
 
soleil10 said:
We can conclude that their sexual union was not blessed by God. They were still immature at the time and were supposed to wait. This would explain the commandement God gave them "do not eat of the fruit".
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But their sexual union was blessed by God, even before the Fall.

"So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them. And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it:" - Genesis 1:27-28

Did God go back on His command?
 
shawn said:
You can speak for yourself, but to lump everyone else into such a belief is hate mongering.
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John8: 42: Jesus said to them, "If God were your Father, you would love me, for I came from God and now am here. I have not come on my own; but he sent me. 43 Why is my language not clear to you? Because you are unable to hear what I say. 44 You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father's desire. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies."

During the human fall, Adam & Eve put Lucifer in God's position. One part of ourself, responds to God and the other responds to Satan. We are in a midway position going back and force between our original nature and our fallen nature. There is a war inside each one of us. We are divided.

We are still born from A&E, our fallen ancestors' lineage. Only if Jesus as a the sinless 2nd Adam could have been married and create a new lineage separated from Satan, could we have been born without the original sin of A&E.

Jesus and his wife would have become our new true ancestors. Christians are the spiritual children of Jesus and the Holy Spirit (spiritual Eve). Jesus was victorious spiritually but Satan took his body and his precious seed. People of his time rejected him

Jesus needs to come back once more. He will not come on the clouds but as a real person.
 
17th Angel said:
Why the long wait?
Been 2000 fricken years... What will it take? What has to happen? Why prolong this ****ty existance we have? When this guy can repair it all?
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17th Angel,

Look how long God prepared humanity for Jesus to come ? and still he was rejected and crucified. A whole nation was prepared. Specific people received visions and dreams.
Still at the end, Jesus was alone on the cross. The thief on his right saved the day for all humanity when he said to Jesus that he believed in him. That is such a sad reality.

Without the right foundation of faith, the Messiah will surely be killed even after many years of preparation. Jewish people had their own ideas of what the Messiah would look like based on their own expectations

It says that the Messiah will come again like a thief in the night

There are 3 possibilities. He is still to come. He is here living right now or he has already come.

One thing for sure, the satanic forces will do everything to destroy him and he will not be popular.

Personally, I believe he is here but most people have unfortunately missed him.
 
Dondi said:
But their sexual union was blessed by God, even before the Fall.

"So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them. And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it:" - Genesis 1:27-28

Did God go back on His command?
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Did you answer that one, soliel10?
 
Dondi said:
But their sexual union was blessed by God, even before the Fall."So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them. And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it:" - Genesis 1:27-28

Did God go back on His command?
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No God did not back on his blessing and His vision and plan for their future.

Later on it says that he gave them a commandment to fufill. During their growth to maturity (be fruitful), they had to keep His commandment.

I know, it can be confusing. Chapter 2 in Genesis seems like it should be read before chapter one.


19 Now the LORD God had formed out of the ground all the beasts of the field and all the birds of the air. He brought them to the man to see what he would name them; and whatever the man called each living creature, that was its name. 20 So the man gave names to all the livestock, the birds of the air and all the beasts of the field.
But for Adam [h] no suitable helper was found. 21 So the LORD God caused the man to fall into a deep sleep; and while he was sleeping, he took one of the man's ribs [i] and closed up the place with flesh. 22 Then the LORD God made a woman from the rib [j] he had taken out of the man, and he brought her to the man.
23 The man said,
"This is now bone of my bones
and flesh of my flesh;
she shall be called 'woman, [k] '
for she was taken out of man."
24 For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and they will become one flesh. 25 The man and his wife were both naked, and they felt no shame.

Gen 1:27-28 already speaks about A&E union and mutliplication and then Chapter 2 speaks about Eve creation. The order of the story can be confusing
 
I said:
You haven't read Dan Brown, have you? :)
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I have seen the movie but do not remember the details well.

What comes back to mind is that the Holy Grail is the symbol of Eve.

On that perspective, Dan Brown is helpful .

Jesus did not come to die as a sinlge bachelor. What he lost on the cross was much more that his physical body. He lost his family; God's precious seed for a new lineage, God lineage on earth.

God's heart was broken once again. The first time when Adam and Eve fell and now when Jesus . the second sinless Adam was crucified.

It is so sad that Christianity does not understand Jesus' heart and God's heart.

We constantly hear that God is in control. That is not the case. He could be in control of course but true love and free wil would not exist anymore.
 
soleil10 said:
I know, it can be confusing. Chapter 2 in Genesis seems like it should be read before chapter one.
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So for your convenience, you switched it around?

Chapter 2 is expanding what has happened in chapter 1. Verse 19, for instance, is the retelling of the creation of the land animals referred to in chapter 1, verse 14-25. Therefore, the creation of Adam 2:7 Eve in 2:21-25 is the same as the creation of male and female in 1:27, just more detail.

BTW, The command not to eat the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil came to Adam, BEFORE Eve was created. So essentially, it was Adam's responsibility to ensure that word was passed down to Eve. Whether or not Eve embellished by saying they couldn't touch it (which wasn't in the original, they just couldn't eat it) or if Adam slipped her the wrong instructions is anyone's guess. But Adam gets the blame nonetheless.

Regardless, however it is apparent that Adam was united with Eve as one flesh before the fall, as 2:24 indicates that union (Paul mentions the wrong union with a harlot as becoming one flesh with her in I Cor 6:16). That they didn't immediately have children doesn't change that. The command to be fruitful and multiply was in force, even though they hadn't produced yet, though they were one union in the flesh.
 
Dondi said:
Regardless, however it is apparent that Adam was united with Eve as one flesh before the fall, as 2:24 indicates that union
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It says that they were naked and felt no shame, then right after falling they felt shame and covered their sexual organs.

The way I understand it, is that they were supposed to wait until they had reached maturity before consuming their union, meaning eating of the fruit. They needed to become fruitful first. A fruit is eaten once it becomes mature. During that era when the bible was written, they were using agrarian images and symbols.

Even today, parents tell their teenage children to wait until the appropriate time of maturity before having sexual relations.

Sexual relation is the only way the sin, we call original sin can be transmitted from generation to generation. It is through the blood lineage.

Even saints cannot erase the original sin for their descendants.

Even Jesus could not erase it. To start God's lineage, Jesus would have to be married but satan was able to destroy his earthly body.

This was the real tragedy of the cross. God once again lost his lineage. Fisrt during the human fall and for the second time at the cross.
 
soleil10 said:
I know, it can be confusing. Chapter 2 in Genesis seems like it should be read before chapter one.
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Gen2 and Gen1 are different versions of the same allegory. One Yahwist, the other Elohist, one Bethlehem version, one Jerusalem version, combined (as the two stories of Noah, and others along with the Priest stories and Deuteronimists) to create the first books...
 
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