Can I go to heaven without my spouse ?

[soleil10]

I believe that we do not truly succeed in life just as individuals but as families.

I believe that it is the same when we talk about salvation. It is not just an individual thing. In Genesis, God makes it clear that He wants us to become one as a couple centered on Him. A man + a woman is the image of God who is our Parent in Heaven.

Christianity emphasizes the salvation of the individual but God's will is for the salvation of the family.

We go to Heaven with our better half ? What would be Heaven without being together.

"What God has joined together let no man separate" Mark 10:9

 

[shawn]

"What God has joined together let no man separate" Mark 10:9

Death is not a man.

Every being (* note: not "person" ) has within themselves a duality.
We can see this most clearly with the "conscious" / "sub-conscious" aspects or the "rational" / "emotional" elements.
The union of these dualistic aspects IMO creates a complete individual and this is what I perceive these texts to be talking about.
As for becoming somehow spiritually one with your mate, good luck on that one.
Most people cannot even accomplish this within themselves let alone getting another to join in.

 

[soleil10]

Death is not a man.Every being (* note: not "person" ) has within themselves a duality.
We can see this most clearly with the "conscious" / "sub-conscious" aspects or the "rational" / "emotional" elements.
The union of these dualistic aspects IMO creates a complete individual and this is what I perceive these texts to be talking about.
As for becoming somehow spiritually one with your mate, good luck on that one.Most people cannot even accomplish this within themselves let alone getting another to join in.

Shawn here is the verse again below within a larger context.
6"But at the beginning of creation God 'made them male and female.'[a] 7'For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife,[b] 8and the two will become one flesh.'[c] So they are no longer two, but one. 9Therefore what God has joined together, let man not separate."

It refers to the unity between male and female.

I do agree that we need to have the unity of our mind and body first as an individual. This is what Gen 1:28 means by being a fruitful human being

Adam and Eve needed to reach a certain individual maturity before becoming one. It is the same for us.

 

[immortalitylost]

Soo... are you saying that one bad sheep in a family can doom the rest? Or that the good works of the majority of the family will get the one bad sheep out of 'hell'.

What indeed would heaven be without our loved ones... Think though, everyone is loved by someone...

Who then could we exclude from heaven without turning it into hell for someone?

I think this would mean that everyone should get to come in.

I mean... it's only fair...

I'm sure that even Hitler was loved by someone worthy of heaven...

And if he has to be there, who gets excluded?

Lol, you've introduced yourself with a conundrum there.

 

[Dream]

I do not know. What other things in the Bible would you say refer to unity of male and female?

 

[soleil10]

Soo... are you saying that one bad sheep in a family can doom the rest? Or that the good works of the majority of the family will get the one bad sheep out of 'hell'.

What I am saying is that the couple (male+female) is the complete unit that enters Heaven. As individual, we are only half.
Our children will also find their better half as we say and join us.

Christianity does not understand this because Jesus as the second Adam was not able to marry. When the Messiah comes again and finds his bride, he will have the authority to marry Jesus in the spirit world. In Genesis 1:28 God gave to each one of us, not just Adam & Eve 3 blessings to fulfill.
Jesus had to give up his family on the cross and was not able to have his own physical children.

What indeed would heaven be without our loved ones... Think though, everyone is loved by someone...

God himself does not want his precious children to be in hell forever

Who then could we exclude from heaven without turning it into hell for someone? I think this would mean that everyone should get to come in. I mean... it's only fair...

There ae different levels in the spiritual world according to our level of heart and the quality of our love.

I'm sure that even Hitler was loved by someone worthy of heaven...And if he has to be there, who gets excluded?

Eventually Hitler will be restored, even Lucifer that became satan.

God's eternal will be never changed. As always, it depends on us how fast it will be fulfilled

 

[shawn]

What I am saying is that the couple (male+female) is the complete unit that enters Heaven. As individual, we are only half.
Our children will also find their better half as we say and join us.

Speculation and opinion.

Christianity does not understand this because Jesus as the second Adam was not able to marry.

This is not known. He could very well have produced offspring in the years of unreported activity which we have no record of.
Besides, you need to be married to be a rabbi.
Be fruitful and multiply and all that.

God himself does not want his precious children to be in hell forever

Only an evil god would make a hell which lasts for eternity in the first place.
Pure fabrication and fiction.

 

[China Cat Sunflower]

I believe this is the applicable text:

23That same day the Sadducees, who say there is no resurrection, came to him with a question. 24"Teacher," they said, "Moses told us that if a man dies without having children, his brother must marry the widow and have children for him. 25Now there were seven brothers among us. The first one married and died, and since he had no children, he left his wife to his brother. 26The same thing happened to the second and third brother, right on down to the seventh. 27Finally, the woman died. 28Now then, at the resurrection, whose wife will she be of the seven, since all of them were married to her?"

29Jesus replied, "You are in error because you do not know the Scriptures or the power of God. 30At the resurrection people will neither marry nor be given in marriage; they will be like the angels in heaven.

Matthew 22:23-29 (NIV)

 

[Dondi]

And what about eunuchs? How are they going to be completed?

 

[soleil10]

And what about eunuchs? How are they going to be completed?

We have a physical and spiritual body. We leave our physical body on earth.
Their spirit body was not mutilated

 

[soleil10]

I believe this is the applicable text:

29Jesus replied, "You are in error because you do not know the Scriptures or the power of God. 30At the resurrection people will neither marry nor be given in marriage; they will be like the angels in heaven.Matthew 22:23-29 (NIV)
Thanks, China for bringing this verse up.
What did the Sadducees mean by Resurrection and what did Jesus mean by Resurrection ?
Here is how I react to this verse based on my understanding
At the time of human fall, A&E did not die physically but died spiritually. They became separated from God's lineage and joined Satan's lineage

For me, resurrection means our reconnection to God's lineage by removal of the original sin that is in us. Only the Messiah is born sinless, completely separated from the original sin. We are the wild branches that need to be reconnected to him the Tree of Life.

Our spirit needs to be resurrected as an individual first. We are single like the angels (figure of speech)

This brings us back to Gen 1:28. We need to reach maturity (become fruitful) first before we can be married (multiply).

 

[Dondi]

We have a physical and spiritual body. We leave our physical body on earth.
Their spirit body was not mutilated

So are you saying that eunuchs can get married in the spiritual realm?

 

[Dream]

Here is a possibly related passage from Maccabees and Isaiah. It could support your theory, Soleil; although I'm not sure. These mention eunuchs and families in general, as well as purified souls so they are in the vicinity of what you're talking about.

8 No seducer corrupted me on a desert plain, nor did the
destroyer, the deceitful serpent, defile the purity of my virginity.
9 In the time of my maturity I remained with my husband, and
when these sons had grown up their father died. A happy man was
he, who lived out his life with good children, and did not have the
grief of bereavement.
10 While he was still with you, he taught you the law and the
prophets.
....
16 He recounted to you Solomon's proverb, `There is a tree of life
for those who do his will.'
....
22 For these crimes divine justice pursued and will pursue the
accursed tyrant.
23 But the sons of Abraham with their victorious mother are
gathered together into the chorus of the fathers, and have received
pure and immortal souls from God,
24 to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.

3 Let not the foreigner who has joined himself to the LORD say,
"The LORD will surely separate me from his people"; and let not
the eunuch say, "Behold, I am a dry tree."
4 For thus says the LORD: "To the eunuchs who keep my
sabbaths, who choose the things that please me and hold fast my
covenant,
5 I will give in my house and within my walls a monument and a
name better than sons and daughters; I will give them an
everlasting name which shall not be cut off.

 

[soleil10]

So are you saying that eunuchs can get married in the spiritual realm?

What I am saying is that every human being, male or female needs to reach individual maturity and then become one in the image of God with his or or spouse

That is what God is saying in Gen 1:28. His will is unchanging and eternal.

The Providence of God is a Providence of restoration, a reversal of the human fall and its consequences throughout history.

What has not taken place during our own short physical life on earth will take place over time in our life in the spirit world.

We can receive the benefit of the ages and from the conditions made by our own descendants. For exemple, people who lived at the time of the old testament received the benefit of Jesus victory and moved to the spiritual level of the New testament.

 

[iBrian]

So...the entire question of salvation is as to whether you are married or not??

 

[soleil10]

So are you saying that eunuchs can get married in the spiritual realm?

Yes, we need to be married to enter heaven. I like to ad children with down syndrom will also be married. Children that die young will also grow up spiritually and be married.

 

[soleil10]

Here is a possibly related passage from Maccabees and Isaiah. It could support your theory, Soleil; although I'm not sure. These mention eunuchs and families in general, as well as purified souls so they are in the vicinity of what you're talking about.

Thank you very much Dream. Thes are quite hopeful verses

 

[shawn]

Yes, we need to be married to enter heaven. I like to ad children with down syndrom will also be married. Children that die young will also grow up spiritually and be married.

So then you are saying one of 2 things here, that either Jesus was married, or He is not in heaven.
Either one of those or the rules don't apply to the rule maker.

 

[soleil10]

So then you are saying one of 2 things here, that either Jesus was married, or He is not in heaven.
Either one of those or the rules don't apply to the rule maker.

Shaw, you are going to get me in trouble here. But Yes, you question is right

Do you remenber what Jesus said to the thief on his right ?
Jesus answered him, "I tell you the truth, today you will be with me in paradise (Luke 23:32-43).
Jesus is in Paradise.

Jesus also said. "But I say to all of you: In the future you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and coming on the clouds of heaven." I believe, this is a reference to the coming Messiah.

We know that Jesus was not married because he was murdered and crucified. As the second sinless Adam, he came to restore a new Eve and starts God true lineage on earth.

This is why the Messiah has to come back a third time. What God promised in Gen 1:28 will be fulfilled. God's will is unchanging. God said: "I have a purpose and I will do it"

The words below were written by a friend of mine. They are relevant to this thread.

"This is one of the MAIN problems with Christian thought and confusion about marriage. . the "no marriage in heaven" idea. It is very strong. . .it is the basis for the wedding pledge "until death do us part". . ..from the perspective of Christian thought. . marriage is for earthly reasons only. . .Jesus did not marry. . .Protestants don't consider it a sacrament. . .in heaven we will be "single" like the angels. This is why Christian values are on the wane. . .We are incorrect at the most important level. . .the family!. . . We need to hone our message and point it at this fundamental weakness in Christian thought. . .We need to emphasized "Jesus gave more on the cross. . .he sacrificed his marriage and family for us. . . the mission he laid down in Gethsemane, with tears, . . .we need to continue the legacy of salvation and extend it from the conquering of death for the individual to the conquering of death for marriage, conception, birth and family. ..THE FAMILY, in fact, becomes the foundation of the culture of heaven.

 

[shawn]

We know that Jesus was not married because he was murdered and crucified.

And how does this prove that???
Many married people get murdered every day.
Don't forget, we know nothing about his life up until he was around 30 and you can sow a lot of oats in that time.
Besides, he was called rabbi and to be considered as such one had to be married (still do in fact).

This is why the Messiah has to come back a third time.

So the christians waiting for the 2ND coming are really waiting for the 3RD coming

Really, you need to broaden your concept of family...my brother, or maybe sister.
We are all one family.
All children of the same God.
We all have the same blood.
We are all ONE.
So it matters not what ritual a priest or JP performs to join people, as we are already all joined.
Only the blind do not see it.