Can I go to heaven without my spouse ?

shawn said:
And how does this prove that???
Many married people get murdered every day.
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What I meant is that Jesus was rejected and then crucified before he could marry. His own family did not understand his mission.

shawn said:
Don't forget, we know nothing about his life up until he was around 30 and you can sow a lot of oats in that time.
Besides, he was called rabbi and to be considered as such one had to be married (still do in fact).
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Well 99.9% of christians believe Jesus was crucified. It is a central point of the Chrsitian faith
shawn said:
So the christians waiting for the 2ND coming are really waiting for the 3RD coming:eek::confused::eek:
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If A&E had not fell, there was no need for a Messiah. It is the second coming.

shawn said:
Really, you need to broaden your concept of family...my brother, or maybe sister. We are all one family.All children of the same God.We all have the same blood.We are all ONE.
So it matters not what ritual a priest or JP performs to join people, as we are already all joined. Only the blind do not see it.
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Yes humanity is a family and God is our parent. The basic units are still individual families. Unfortunately our blood was stained by the fall or our first ancestors. Humanity is suffering and God is also suffering in seeing his children in that situation.
 
soleil10 said:
What I meant is that Jesus was rejected and then crucified before he could marry. His own family did not understand his mission.


Well 99.9% of christians believe Jesus was crucified. It is a central point of the Chrsitian faith

If A&E had not fell, there was no need for a Messiah. It is the second coming.



Yes humanity is a family and God is our parent. The basic units are still individual families. Unfortunately our blood was stained by the fall or our first ancestors. Humanity is suffering and God is also suffering in seeing his children in that situation.
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Well.....that is one point of view.
I can't say that we agree as we don't on many points, but if it works for you there buddy, well, have at it.:D
 
citizenzen said:
The Pope is going to be really bummed when he hears about this.
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Because Jesus could not marry, life as a single person became the way to reach the highest spirituality for many people that wanted to imitate and live as Christ.

When the Messiah comes back and the marriage of the lamb takes place the way of the family will be recognized as the best spiritual course
 
Now you are contradicting yourself.
There is no convincing evidence either to prove that Jesus was never married either besides speculation.
Certainly nothing convincing enough to bet the farm on.
 
soleil10 said:
Because Jesus could not marry, life as a single person became the way to reach the highest spirituality for many people that wanted to imitate and live as Christ.

When the Messiah comes back and the marriage of the lamb takes place the way of the family will be recognized as the best spiritual course
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Waitaminnit...

Didn't you just say the opposite?
 
citizenzen said:
Waitaminnit...Didn't you just say the opposite?
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Here is what I meant to say

Because Jesus could not marry, life as a single person became the way to reach the highest spirituality until now for many people who wanted to imitate and live as Christ did

When the Messiah comes back and the marriage of the lamb takes place the way of the family will be recognized as the best spiritual course
 
shawn said:
Now you are contradicting yourself.
There is no convincing evidence either to prove that Jesus was never married either besides speculation.
Certainly nothing convincing enough to bet the farm on.
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Actually, if we understand:

1) What God's purpose for the creation is (individual, family etc...)
2) What caused the human fall
3) What process to reverse to restore the fall God followed
4) If we Understand the different restorative events that took place in the OT from Adam's family through Jesus family, it is possible to prove that Jesus did not marry
 
soleil10 said:
Actually, if we understand:

1) What God's purpose for the creation is (individual, family etc...)
2) What caused the human fall
3) What process to reverse to restore the fall God followed
4) If we Understand the different restorative events that took place in the OT from Adam's family through Jesus family, it is possible to prove that Jesus did not marry
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We'd have to first agree:

1 there is a purpose
2 there was a fall
3 see 2
4 we take allegory as history
 
soleil10 said:
29Jesus replied, "You are in error because you do not know the Scriptures or the power of God. 30At the resurrection people will neither marry nor be given in marriage; they will be like the angels in heaven.Matthew 22:23-29 (NIV)
Thanks, China for bringing this verse up.
What did the Sadducees mean by Resurrection and what did Jesus mean by Resurrection ?
Here is how I react to this verse based on my understanding
At the time of human fall, A&E did not die physically but died spiritually. They became separated from God's lineage and joined Satan's lineage

For me, resurrection means our reconnection to God's lineage by removal of the original sin that is in us. Only the Messiah is born sinless, completely separated from the original sin. We are the wild branches that need to be reconnected to him the Tree of Life.

Our spirit needs to be resurrected as an individual first. We are single like the angels (figure of speech)

This brings us back to Gen 1:28. We need to reach maturity (become fruitful) first before we can be married (multiply).
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These verses are essentially a Saduccee rhetorical smackdown. Here's the Wiki link: Sadducees - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

An important point to remember:
None of the writings we have about Sadducees present their own side of these controversies, and it is possible that positions attributed to "Sadducees" in later literature such as Josephus are meant as rhetorical foils for whatever opinion the author wishes to present, and do not in fact represent the teachings of the sect.

(emboldening mine)
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Chris
 
soleil10 said:
Yes, we need to be married to enter heaven.
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soleil10 said:
Here is what I meant to say
Because Jesus could not marry, life as a single person became the way to reach the highest spirituality until now for many people who wanted to imitate and live as Christ did

When the Messiah comes back and the marriage of the lamb takes place the way of the family will be recognized as the best spiritual course
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You first flatly state that people need to be married to go the Heaven. Then you claim that "until now" you were able to get to Heaven as a single person; an indication that conditions have changed and a new rule now applies.

In your last sentence, this changed condition is the return of the Messiah.

So apparently, you believe that the Messiah has returned.

Is this correct?
 
citizenzen said:
You first flatly state that people need to be married to go the Heaven. Then you claim that "until now" you were able to get to Heaven as a single person; an indication that conditions have changed and a new rule now applies.
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I did not say that we were able to enter heaven as a single person. Please read carefully what I wrote.

citizenzen said:
In your last sentence, this changed condition is the return of the Messiah.
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Not just his return. He also needs to complete what Jesus wanted to accomplish with God here on earth.

citizenzen said:
So apparently, you believe that the Messiah has returned. Is this correct?
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Yes.
 
soleil10 said:
I did not say that we were able to enter heaven as a single person. Please read carefully what I wrote.
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soleil10 said:
Because Jesus could not marry, life as a single person became the way to reach the highest spirituality for many people that wanted to imitate and live as Christ.
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So apparently reaching "the highest spirituality" did not include going to Heaven.

Which leads to the question: what is higher than highest?
 
citizenzen said:
So apparently reaching "the highest spirituality" did not include going to Heaven.
Which leads to the question: what is higher than highest?
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It was the highest at that time of the New Testament era
We can see that the spiritual level of the Gospel is higher than during the time of the Old Testament and the 10 commandments.

As I wrote before, When Jesus died he said to the thief on his right that he will be in paradise.

Would you not want to be in Heaven alone without your "better half" . God's original ideal of creation has not changed even if A&E fell. They were supposed to be in Heaven together eternally.

When the Messiah returns succesfully, the era of the Completed Testament opens.

Despite God's preparation, He will also be rejected and persecuted and all the satanic forces will try to destroy him.
 
I said:
I presume this Messiah is the Reverend Moon?
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Brian, answering that question a certain way brings a thousand more questions.

I am not sure if I should answer it. It would be like telling you the ending of a movie before you went to the theater.

It is an extremely serious question too that I cannot really answer casually
 
soleil10 said:
Would you not want to be in Heaven alone without your "better half" . God's original ideal of creation has not changed even if A&E fell. They were supposed to be in Heaven together eternally.
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As a Buddhist, I believe that any separation between my wife and myself (or anybody else for that matter) is due to our bodies, senses and thoughts reinforcing the notion of separation. One one hand it is a very real separation, but it is only part of the picture and a very temporary perspective. When we die and lose the mechanism by which this separation is created we return to "oneness". I do not believe that marriage is eternal. Marriage is an invention of our biology and culture and ends, at best, with death. In your view, if a man—totally committed, in a loving marriage—becomes a widower and then enters a second totally committed and loving marriage, who does he spend eternity with?

One other aspect that doesn't feel right to me is this idea that the rules keep changing by which your God judges people. The Buddha lived 600 years before Jesus, and the Dharma has been the same before he was born, while he lived, and in the thousands of years since his death. A caveman could have experienced enlightenment (and probably did) and some future being, living 10,000 years from now, could too (and will) using similar practices as the Buddha. All of these changing conditions that your God requires for salvation, paints Him as inconstant.

I'm not trying to derail a Christian thread. I'm merely trying to compare and contrast our perspectives. I do appreciate learning about the different ways that people interpret—what I believe is—the most important aspect of our existence.
 
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