Can I go to heaven without my spouse ?

soleil10 said:
This is one of the MAIN problems with Christian thought and confusion about marriage. .
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As if all Christians think the same thing . . .
soleil10 said:
the "no marriage in heaven" idea. It is very strong. . .it is the basis for the wedding pledge "until death do us part". . ..from the perspective of Christian thought. . .marriage is for earthly reasons only. . .Jesus did not marry. . .Protestants don't consider it a sacrament. . .in heaven we will be "single" like the angels. This is why Christian values are on the wane. . .
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The main problem I have with marriage is not it being an earthly thing, but a worldly thing. I think a lot of people get married because that's what society expects of them, just like I hear society often teaches boys that you become a man by losing your virginity. Your worth as a person is measured by having or not having a woman in your life, home ownership, having/not having a car, having a job, etc. It's about impressing and pleasing people. You feel worthless not having these things. Rubbish!

That's why I choose to be selfish and narcissistic. I'm rebelling against what society tells me to do. Society says get a girlfriend, get married, buy a car, buy a house, get a good sex life and get a job.

Sure, I'd want to make myself useful to society, to the world and its people, but getting married is not one of them.

It is not to say that one should never marry and start a family, but I just need to think about myself first rather than what society tells me to do.

You won't need a house if you share it with your relatives. You won't need a car if you take public transport or if people are willing to drive you around to your destination. Why do you need a girlfriend or get married? Why do you need sex? Some of this is capitalism. Some of it is hedonism.

Jesus wanted people to stop being slaves of capitalism, materialism and hedonism. A lot of people who get married are doing it as slaves of capitalism, materialism and hedonism. I don't think they're even doing it for themselves. They're not truly thinking about their own needs, not truly being selfish and narcissistic as I am. No, they are doing what society tells them to do.:) Their intentions are worldly.

Jesus said, "I am the Way, the Truth and the Life." I believe he meant for us to stop being slaves of society, and to start thinking of ourselves more. That is what the "I" refers to: it refers to you and me. We are not to be slaves of society, but to completely embrace our humanity, to love ourselves and to love our neighbours as ourselves.

It is to be truly and completely selfish.

How can you love your future wife if you can't even love yourself first? I think a lot of people think they are selfish, but really, they aren't. They were slaves of society, of capitalism, materialism and hedonism long before they learnt to be truly selfish. They have sacrificed their humanity for slavery to economic, monetary, legal and political systems.

The thief comes to steal and destroy; I come that they may have life and have it to the full. John 10:10
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If you can't love yourself wholeheartedly, you haven't truly lived!:D To love is to completely embrace what is human.
 
soleil10 said:
This is one of the MAIN problems with Christian thought and confusion about marriage. .
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Indeed - it does not seem to mention any of hte ideas hte Reverend Moon preaches!

soleil10 said:
Brian you are off by 44 years.
YouTube - Father
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The Wikipedia entry says he divorced coming out of the NK camp in 1953, and that he was happily in America, supporting Reagan in the 1980's.

soleil10 said:
Obviously, people of Jesus's time did not understand his mission.
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Maybe, but - the strange thing is that what you seem to be talking about is a total re-invention of Christianity, bringing in new concepts, and totally re-writing it as being totally misunderstood from every angle since before Reverent Moon walked the earth.

I also note you didn't comment on the lifestyle of luxury quote from Wikipedia - does this mean it is supportable and accepted among the Unification Church?
 
wil said:
You, having a level head on your shoulders and compassion in your heart should consider mentoring some youth to get a piece of that joy, and pass on some of yours.
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I've been trying to do that with you. But do you listen?

Kids. :rolleyes:
 
wil said:
ah you joke with me just before or after you recommend others ought to care more....interesting, maybe I've misjudged?
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I recommended that others ought to care more?

That doesn't sound like me.

I recommend that everybody indulge in very risky and dangerous activities... right after leaving me as your beneficiary.
 
citizenzen said:
I recommended that others ought to care more?

That doesn't sound like me.

I recommend that everybody indulge in very risky and dangerous activities... right after leaving me as your beneficiary.
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short attention span...
citizenzen said:
I don't like the fact that they are pushing the envelope with film budgets. $400 million dollars could do a lot more for the betterment of society than merely providing two hours of distraction.
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wil said:
short attention span...
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Hmmm...

I read it again... but I still can't see those words, "I recommended that others ought to care more."

I believe I stated a personal opinion about my values, and didn't say a thing about what anybody else should do.
 
wil said:
I get it, ignore your posts....thanx for the clarification....
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Your welcome.

I think you should put me on ignore.

It might help your blood pressure.

That vein on your forehead is showing again.
 
I just realized how confusing this thread has become.

For anybody interested (and I find that very hard to believe) the quote that wil referred to could be found in the Lounge, in the thread Avatar.

If you're wondering what this has to do with Christianity, Heaven and eternal partnerships, that makes two of us.
 
soleil10 said:
Shawn here is the verse again below within a larger context.
6"But at the beginning of creation God 'made them male and female.'[a] 7'For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife,[b] 8and the two will become one flesh.'[c] So they are no longer two, but one. 9Therefore what God has joined together, let man not separate."

It refers to the unity between male and female.

I do agree that we need to have the unity of our mind and body first as an individual. This is what Gen 1:28 means by being a fruitful human being

Adam and Eve needed to reach a certain individual maturity before becoming one. It is the same for us.
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Jesus, in Matthew 19:4-15 explains this in some detail. He starts by quoting Genesis 2:24, "Cleave unto thy wife, and they twain shall be one flesh. So they are no longer two but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder" (Depart).

Parents - [Man and wife] were created to procreate [Gen 1:28, Be ye fruitful and multiply] and to become a family unit. When God said that they shall become "One flesh" He was alluding to the birth of two souls in one [A child].

Jesus gave His spill about how Moses allowed them to divorce due to their hardened hearts. [Alluding to the importance of love, procreation, and parental responsibility]

Jesus went on to tell His disciples that there are some who cannot receive this saying. Some were actually suggesting that it best for a man not to marry....

“Not everyone can receive this saying, but only those to whom it is given. For there are eunuchs who have been so from birth, and there are eunuchs who have been made eunuchs by men, and there are eunuchs who have made themselves eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. Let the one who is able to receive this receive it.”

All of this is about our "children" and our responsibilities as parents. Any man can procreate with a woman [Save a eunuch] but it takes a real man to be a father. Scripture tells us that, "What God has joined together, let no man depart."

It's about keeping up with our obligations as parents, and to always love our children (Unconditionally) no matter what, and for both parents to play a role in the lives of their children. Children are a miracle that only God can join together; "the birth of two souls in one" Gen 2:24.

"Then children were brought to him that he might lay his hands on them and pray. The disciples rebuked the people but Jesus said, “Let the little children come to me and do not hinder them, for to such belongs the kingdom of heaven.”

I agree that scripture places focus on parental responsibility, but this in no way suggests that a single and unmarried individual who has no children cannot enter into the Kingdom (Heck, if a Eunuch can enter the kingdom, so can those who never marry).

What is marriage anyway? Seriously ... Is it a piece of paper, or two people who have devoted themselves to one another? I'm not much on paper weddings; I believe that marriage is solely of the heart.

I may be reading you wrong, but are you really suggesting that a single person cannot enter heaven? :cough: Horsepucky!! :cough: :cough:

:D

GK
 
It seems I left a couple verses out in my reply ...

Could biblical marriage be the act of procreation (Having children), or does it involve vows of some sort? A piece of paper? A priest? If biblical marriage is in fact the act of procreation, then I think it safe to suggest that there is to be fidelity between the two partners after children are involved.

This is what Jesus says about it:

"I say to you: whoever divorces (Dismisses/sends away) his wife (Woman), except for sexual immorality and marries another commits adultery."

I myself think that biblical marriage is the act of having children (Procreation). This type of marriage leads to a greater love solely of the heart. I know the love I have for my own child, and it is nothing less than miraculous.

Scripture alludes to this when God tells us (man) to cleave unto the "wife" (woman) and to become one flesh. Only God can form a child between to people; we do very little to aid in the development of a child, but our hearts sure benefit from the love we come to know as a result.

So, is it possible that biblical marriage is the act of being fruitful and multiplying, and taking on parental responsibilities? I think it is very likely considering what Christ said about Eunuchs ... Even Eunuchs can love a woman and devote his life to her, no? He just can't have children, or sex.

:Scratches head:

Just something to give some thought to. :cool:


GK
 
Btw, I'm not suggesting that we go around having sex just because we are attracted to someone sexually. I think when sex is involved, there need be love involved also. Otherwise, we are just acting on carnal impulse and lust, which is a no no according to scripture.

Good grief!! Now I'm wondering why it was o.k for Solomon and other biblical men of God to have more than one wife? Maybe it's because our love was meant to be shared, and because we were told to be fruitful and multiply, and to not dismiss our "wives" (Woman) without cause.

Wow! Now I'm wondering if fidelity is really that important at all. I mean if Solomon can have many wives, why can't we? Perhaps we were actually meant to have more that one partner? If we truly come to love another, why not be fruitful and multiply with them also? As long as we're not just acting on carnal impulse, and we love them whats the biggy?

WAIT!! I know ... Even I wouldn't recommend it in this day and age. jealousy rears its ugly head over a simple glance now days. We have become far too selfish to consider more than one partner, so it probably best to hold the breaks on this one!! :p

Funny how one thought can lead to another and then another. Btw, I don't mean to ruffle feathers here, but seriously ... Who says biblical marriage must be limited to one partner? We are simply told not to send away our "wives" (Plural), unless they are harlots (Prostitutes).

Looks like Mormons may be on to something with the whole Polygamy thing, eh?


GK
 
Gatekeeper said:
Parents - [Man and wife] were created to procreate [Gen 1:28, Be ye fruitful and multiply] and to become a family unit. When God said that they shall become "One flesh" He was alluding to the birth of two souls in one [A child].

All of this is about our "children" and our responsibilities as parents. Any man can procreate with a woman [Save a eunuch] but it takes a real man to be a father. Scripture tells us that, "What God has joined together, let no man depart."

It's about keeping up with our obligations as parents, and to always love our children (Unconditionally) no matter what, and for both parents to play a role in the lives of their children. Children are a miracle that only God can join together; "the birth of two souls in one" Gen 2:24.

"Then children were brought to him that he might lay his hands on them and pray. The disciples rebuked the people but Jesus said, “Let the little children come to me and do not hinder them, for to such belongs the kingdom of heaven.”

GK
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not up on the scriptures but this is what l had thought when l first read this thread.
 
GK said:
Wow! Now I'm wondering if fidelity is really that important at all. I mean if Solomon can have many wives, why can't we? Perhaps we were actually meant to have more that one partner? If we truly come to love another, why not be fruitful and multiply with them also? As long as we're not just acting on carnal impulse, and we love them whats the biggy?
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Um...I think my wife would have something to say on the matter. I don't think she would be favorably inclined.

On the whole "you must be married to get to heaven issue" I would think that would induce a wrong motivation in getting married. If one is going to emulate true love for a person, then there shouldn't be any underlying exterior factors toward that end. If marriage is essential to gaining entrance to heaven, then the love will be motivated by a certain amount of fear, that is fear of not getting into heaven if one doesn't comply.

For example, I wonder what kind of pressure Mormon women have in marrying a potential Melchesidek priest in order to gain 'godhood' in the afterlife as promised by the LDS church? Are they marrying out of love or a desire to be promoted to a certain status?
 
Dondi said:
Um...I think my wife would have something to say on the matter. I don't think she would be favorably inclined.
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Nor would any other woman I know, lol. Actually, I think it best to only have one partner, particularly if you're looking to avoid conflict, and headaches out the whazoo. I'm just not so sure it is required of us to be monogamous. I have yet to find a single passage that instructs us to have but one wife. Cept for a passage in Timothy, but only because the writer knew that others might find fault in such a practice.

GK
 
I said:
The Wikipedia entry says he divorced coming out of the NK camp in 1953, and that he was happily in America, supporting Reagan in the 1980's.
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Wikipedia is known to be quite unreliable when it come to partisan information. The information you found on luxurious lifestyle is also incorrect. When someone has 14 children, and uses his home as a public place where 100s of people come on a daily basis, it is not what you think. I know Rev Moon and his wife as being the most unselfish, most sacrificial and most public persons I have ever seen. Recently Rev Moon's biography was #2 in Korea for many months to many people surprise. The truth will come out eventually

I said:
Maybe, but - the strange thing is that what you seem to be talking about is a total re-invention of Christianity, bringing in new concepts, and totally re-writing it as being totally misunderstood from every angle since before Reverend Moon walked the earth.
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Well, having been raised as a devoted catholic, surrounded in my own family with bishops and priests, I discovered in studying Rev Moon's Divine Principle that I had not understood Jesus life, Jesus heart as well as the human fall. I discoverd God's purpose of creation as well as the course of restoration throughout the bible.(just to mention some major themes). I was astonished and amazed. It changed my life in so many ways.
Anyone can check what Rev Moon wrote and see for themselves. The fact that Rev Moon was persecuted so much is not a surprise. Most prophetic people are.
 
path_of_one said:
So, say someone dies as a 2-year-old child. And they qualify (how do they qualify- just curious?). But obviously the kid didn't marry before s/he died. So then that person gets hooked up with a holy match-maker right before they enter the pearly gates? In the spirit world?The gates of Heaven are beginning to look like a combination of eHarmony and Vegas to me in this model...
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Gen 1:28 applies to everyone. It tells us to reach maturity first as an individual and then to be joined and become one with our eternal spouse

A&E fell before reaching maturity.
 
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