How could the bible have known where civilization began?

D

dan b

Guest
Hello Bible studyers,

After studying history and theology I see an amazing biblical miracle that is little acknoledged by most people. How could the writters of the Book of Genesis have known that civilization began in Mesopotamia about 4000 BC?

Gen.4;22 - Mankind uses metal

Gen.3;23 - Mankind to till ground

Gen 2;20 - Adam names the animals

Gen 2;8 - put man in garden

Gen.2;5 - there was not a man to till ground

Jn. 1 - beginning was the word

Gen.2;7 - Breath of life(ability to use language)

Gen.1;27 - Human created

Gen. 1 - the world created

It is evident to see that the first few chapters of Geneis are describing the beginning of civilization in Mesopotamia around 4000BC. We now know these facts to be true from archeological evidence that has been gathered and analysed. This was only done during the last two hundred years during the 19th and 20th centuries. But how did the ancient bible writer know these things?

The Holy Bible was only compiled about 500BC. It's books were carried around for a few hundred years earlier. This is before there was any real historical realization pretaining to the entire world. That civilization began in Mesopotamia in the forms of language, writing, agriculture, discovery of metal and more, is the statement that is described in the second Genesis Creation Story. (Gen.2;7- ) These innovations first originated here, and then after numerous millennium spread throughout the rest of the world. dan b
 
Namaste Danb,

Why do you say that it is evident? How do you justify the differences in the order of creation from Gen 1 and Gen 2?

Of course I also like the priests that when asked if we discover life started prior on other planets..."No one said the garden was on this earth..."

But beyond that....4000 years? from wiki
The term "human" in the context of human evolution refers to the genus Homo, but studies of human evolution usually include other hominids, such as the Australopithecines. The genus Homo had diverged from the Australopithecines by about 2.3 to 2.4 million years ago in Africa.[2][3] Scientists have estimated that humans branched off from their common ancestor with chimpanzees - the only other living hominins - about 5–7 million years ago. Several species of Homo evolved and are now extinct. These include Homo erectus, which inhabited Asia, and Homo neanderthalensis, which inhabited Europe. Archaic Homo sapiens evolved between 400,000 and 250,000 years ago.
The dominant view among scientists concerning the origin of anatomically modern humans is the "Out of Africa" or recent African origin hypothesis,[4][5][6][7] which argues that H. sapiens arose in Africa and migrated out of the continent around 50-100,000 years ago, replacing populations of H. erectus in Asia and H. neanderthalensis in Europe. Scientists supporting the alternative multiregional hypothesis argue that H. sapiens evolved as geographically separate but interbreeding populations stemming from a worldwide migration of H. erectus out of Africa nearly 2.5 million years ago.
Click to expand...
 
Well, considering that Abraham is traditionally described as from the Mesopotamian city of Ur, it's hardly surprising the Bible might take a specific interest in Mesopotamia. :)
 
Many a clay tablet and scroll has been found which makes reference to earlier, much more ancient writings which we have never seen.
This is well known in archeology.
The idea that the biblical texts, in particular Genesis, are compilations of much earlier works, like Mesopotamian or Sumerian, is not a new idea at all.

Looking at the sphinx we see that erosion occurred on it which geologists have dated back to 10,000 BC or earlier, so the idea that there were older cultures is not that novel either.
 
Hi again, I'm sorry for my long delay but can only access the lybrary computer every few days.

Although I am not a professional scholar, I have studied theology and history and have been to the British Museum in London several times. I must take what they say as my basis.

Of course Abraham came out of Ur, twenty generation after Adam. The miracle of this is that where ever civilization occured they may claim it originated, but archeologists have artifacts only from Mesopotamia during this most early period. In the British museum the oldest antiquaties room is from 3000-4000BC. All the arctifacts are from Mesopotamia.

Civilizations developed much later such as China-2000BC, America-500BC ect. The Bible wrote the truth long before mankind himself knew it. European historians only realized it about 200 years ago.

The first 31 verses of Genesis describe how LGod created everything in this world. He began with space which is Heaven. He finished with Mankind who can experience it. Gen.1;27
Then in Gen.2;7 GLod forms a man of athe clay and breathes into him the "breath of life." Here God actually breathes his own breath into Adam. Then Adam began to be able to use words to Speak. John 1;1 talks about this. Adam then named all the animals. Gen.2;20

In Gen.2;22 God than formed also a woman from Adam's breast where comes the breath. For since Gen.;27 there had been men and women. But none of them must have been using language. Then John goes on to tell us that by the use of the word was everything made. So these are the two beginnings of the Bibles, the creation of the world by God and the development of the world by Mankind. right? dan b
 
wil said:
Why do you say that it is evident? How do you justify the differences in the order of creation from Gen 1 and Gen 2?

Of course I also like the priests that when asked if we discover life started prior on other planets..."No one said the garden was on this earth..."

But beyond that....4000 years? from wiki
Click to expand...


There's a difference between human life and civilization. Until further archaeological discovery is made, civilization did in fact begin in Mesopotamia around 3500bce.
 
Ok, now I guess I get where you all are coming from. But should we really be surprised that early writings from an area describe civlization in that area?

I'd be more surprised if writings in China or North America referred to that area...
danb said:
In Gen.2;22 God than formed also a woman from Adam's breast where comes the breath. For since Gen.;27 there had been men and women. But none of them must have been using language. Then John goes on to tell us that by the use of the word was everything made. So these are the two beginnings of the Bibles, the creation of the world by God and the development of the world by Mankind. right?
Click to expand...
....yes dan.
 
Last edited:
Marsh said:
There's a difference between human life and civilization. Until further archaeological discovery is made, civilization did in fact begin in Mesopotamia around 3500bce.
Click to expand...

When we have established the beginning of civilization then we can continue further in our investigation about whether the Bible's dating system is miraculous or not. Now add this on top of the date 4000BC. We can carry along following the bibles easy to see clues about ourselves.

7000 years ........................................3000 AD

6000 years.........................................2000 AD

5000 years.........................................1000 AD

4000 years.............................JESUS CHRIST

3000 Years.........................................1000BC

2000 years.........................................2000BC

1000 years.........................................3000BC

000.................................................4000BC

The Bible tells us that for six days God laboured creating this world and then rested on the seventh. In this same pattern but over six thousand years our world has followed similarly until the present time when we have arrived at the seventh day.

The Hebrews and Israelites have always begun their calendar from the time of Adam in Mesopotamia whom is generally thought to have lived around 4000BC. This would mean that their date would now be about 6000 years or more after Adam. With the culmination of this 6000 year period of world history, the Messiah is expected to arrive soon.

Christianity meanwhile has set up its own time-keeping calendar based on the same principle of a day equaling a thousand years. After Christ's crucifixion on Calvary Hill more than 2000 years ago, his followers, the Christians, began using their new calendar dating from his time in order to count the years until his return. The Bible tells us that Christ will rise again on the morning of the third day.

From the time of Christ, until the year 1000AD constituted the first day while form 1000AD until 2000 AD would be the second day. The beginning of the 21st century is therefore the beginning of the third 1000 year period after Jesus Christ's crucifixion and is therefore the morning of the third day. In this way it appears that the Christians and the earlier Hebrews were both expectant of the coming Messiah at this same time. dan b
 
It is merely a coincidence if we are coming up on a 7,000th year. Every Sunday a new week starts. The 7,000th is just another millennium, just like we have seven days in a week. It goes round and round just like the sun seems to set then rise.
 
Hi guys!

Yes there could be many problems with understanding the corelations of many things. What I mean is the Bible is showing the same story all over the place! But to see it you need to know the key. The key is the very first page of Genesis. The beginning of the story that God is telling us in his book begins at the beginning. If we pass this, we man not see the significance of that further along. Let me introduce to you a chart showing some more corelation tying together the bible's ideas. Then maybe we can discuss it and you can show me my blindspots. I need to be shown as we all do.

Mankind....................Age of Enlightenment..........1500 AD

Animals.....................Dark Ages

Fowl......Christianity carried under Roman Eagle........333AD
Fish..........sign of the early Christians

Fire........................SUN-Jesus Christ.................... 000
............................Moon-Old Testament Bible........500BC
......................stars-Old Testament Prophets.........800BC

Plants.........1000 years in promiced land of Canaan
Air..................crossisng the Jordan River on "dry land".....2000BC

Water...........................Noah's Flood...........................3000BC

Earth..........Agriculture begins in Mesopotamia(ADam).......4000BC

Even in this present age when most Christians have forgotten or have never been told about their religion, it is rare to find soneone who has not heard of its basic symbology. In the stories of Noah's Flood, crossing the Red Sea on "dry land" and the Israelite's Jordan River crossing on dry land , there are important historical mataphors. Most people in Europe and North America have even heard of King Solomon and how he built his temple. Well, these exact points in history correlate to make the "1000 year millennial divisions." Also they each parallel the four elements and the two four lifeforms described in the Genesis Creation Story.

Further along in history after Jesus reuinites mankinds growing and evolving consciousness, his Christians used as their symbol the "sign of the fish." Later when even the Roman Empire was converted to this new spiritual outlook they began carrying and spreading its message throughout all of Europe under the banner of "the eagle."

With the decline of the Roman Empire Europe was thrown into a "Dark Ages" when men with some degree of innovation and sophistication nevertheless were still acting like barbarians and in an "animal" fasion. But with the beginning of the "Age of Enlightenment" and the re-formation Mankind emerged in triumph becoming civilized, inventing the printing press,innovating the church and discovering America! This 500 year Age of Enlightenment happed exactly for the second half of the 6th millennium just as in Genesis Makind was created during the second half of the 6th day.
Although these simple figures were imprinted in the original Genesis Story a thousand years before Jesus's arrival, they have somehow correspond with Christian History!

Now for one thing, I am often a very poor explainer because I don't know what other people know about a subject. Anyway, I would really like to continue talking and leaning about the Bible's miacuousness that is being exposed only today. Ask question and make critisisms of me but let's not doubt what the bible says or we'll miss the boat. Ahead in this discussion, if we continue it, lie two biblical miracles about the ajustment of chronological time. But its too dificult to discuss before the ground material is known. So what about the above? dan b
 
dan b said:
. Anyway, I would really like to continue talking and leaning about the Bible's miacuousness that is being exposed only today. Ask question ... But its too dificult to discuss before the ground material is known. So what about the above? dan b
Click to expand...
Namaste dan,

So where do you acquire ths ground material, whose the guru or belief you are following?
 
The Hopi have old stories which tell of previous ages, or worlds which we passed through which took a long period of time.
These worlds suffered catastrophe and people had to start from the beginning all over again.
We are in the 4th.
The following extraordinary Hopi prophecy was first published in a mimeographed manuscript that circulated among several Methodist and Presbyterian churches in 1959. Some of the prophecies were published in 1963 by Frank Waters in The Book of the Hopi. The account begins by describing how, while driving along a desert highway one hot day in the summer of 1958, a minister named David Young stopped to offer a ride to an Indian elder, who accepted with a nod. After riding in silence for several minutes, the Indian said:
"I am White Feather, a Hopi of the ancient Bear Clan. In my long life I have traveled through this land, seeking out my brothers, and learning from them many things full of wisdom. I have followed the sacred paths of my people, who inhabit the forests and many lakes in the east, the land of ice and long nights in the north, and the places of holy altars of stone built many years ago by my brothers' fathers in the south. From all these I have heard the stories of the past, and the prophecies of the future. Today, many of the prophecies have turned to stories, and few are left -- the past grows longer, and the future grows shorter.
"And now White Feather is dying. His sons have all joined his ancestors, and soon he too shall be with them. But there is no one left, no one to recite and pass on the ancient wisdom. My people have tired of the old ways -- the great ceremonies that tell of our origins, of our emergence into the Fourth World, are almost all abandoned, forgotten, yet even this has been foretold. The time grows short.
"My people await Pahana, the lost White Brother, [from the stars] as do all our brothers in the land. He will not be like the white men we know now, who are cruel and greedy. we were told of their coming long ago. But still we await Pahana.
"He will bring with him the symbols, and the missing piece of that sacred tablet now kept by the elders, given to him when he left, that shall identify him as our True White Brother.
"The Fourth World shall end soon, and the Fifth World will begin. This the elders everywhere know. The Signs over many years have been fulfilled, and so few are left.

  • "This is the First Sign: We are told of the coming of the white-skinned men, like Pahana, but not living like Pahana men who took the land that was not theirs. And men who struck their enemies with thunder.
    "This is the Second Sign: Our lands will see the coming of spinning wheels filled with voices. In his youth, my father saw this prophecy come true with his eyes -- the white men bringing their families in wagons across the prairies."
    "This is the Third Sign: A strange beast like a buffalo but with great long horns, will overrun the land in large numbers. These White Feather saw with his eyes -- the coming of the white men's cattle."
    "This is the Fourth Sign: The land will be crossed by snakes of iron."
    "This is the Fifth Sign: The land shall be criss-crossed by a giant spider's web."
    "This is the Sixth sign: The land shall be criss-crossed with rivers of stone that make pictures in the sun."
    "This is the Seventh Sign: You will hear of the sea turning black, and many living things dying because of it."
    "This is the Eight Sign: You will see many youth, who wear their hair long like my people, come and join the tribal nations, to learn their ways and wisdom.
    "And this is the Ninth and Last Sign: You will hear of a dwelling-place in the heavens, above the earth, that shall fall with a great crash. It will appear as a blue star. Very soon after this, the ceremonies of my people will cease.
"These are the Signs that great destruction is coming. The world shall rock to and fro. The white man will battle against other people in other lands -- with those who possessed the first light of wisdom. There will be many columns of smoke and fire such as White Feather has seen the white man make in the deserts not far from here. Only those which come will cause disease and a great dying. Many of my people, understanding the prophecies, shall be safe. Those who stay and live in the places of my people also shall be safe. Then there will be much to rebuild. And soon -- very soon afterward -- Pahana will return. He shall bring with him the dawn of the Fifth World. He shall plant the seeds of his wisdom in their hearts. Even now the seeds are being planted. These shall smooth the way to the Emergence into the Fifth World.
"But White Feather shall not see it. I am old and dying. You -- perhaps will see it. In time, in time..."
The old Indian fell silent. They had arrived at his destination, and Reverend David Young stopped to let him out of the car. They never met again. Reverend Young died in 1976, so he did not live to see the further fulfillment of this remarkable prophecy.
The signs are interpreted as follows: The First Sign is of guns. The Second Sign is of the pioneers' covered wagons. The Third Sign is of longhorn cattle. The Fourth Sign describes the railroad tracks. The Fifth Sign is a clear image of our electric power and telephone lines. The Sixth Sign describes concrete highways and their mirage-producing effects. The Seventh Sign foretells of oil spills in the ocean. The Eighth Sign clearly indicates the "Hippy Movement" of the 1960s. The Ninth Sign was the U.S. Space Station Skylab, which fell to Earth in 1979. According to Australian eye-witnesses, it appeared to be burning blue.http://www.welcomehome.org/rainbow/prophecy/hopi1.html
Click to expand...

We do not know where we have come from and we do not know how things will end. or even if that end will be just a new beginning.
 
wil said:
Namaste dan,

So where do you acquire ths ground material, whose the guru or belief you are following?
Click to expand...

Namaste prabu,

The ground material is what is covered in the old testement, beginning with seeing what lies in the first 31 verses of Genesis. This I am learning about and appreciate help with. I have been obsessed with finding the purpose of life since I was 14. Ive never talked to anyone about this stuff untill now.

Anyway, if you are interested, consider the following. After having examined how the Bible describes Adam and Eve as the first Human in Mesopotamia who learned to farm, talk and thereby invent things, lets piece more together. On the other chart it showed how Hebrew and Christian timekeeping come together when Adam is placed as the beginning. Jesus read out of the book of Isaiah that " I have come to set the acceptable year of Lord." So he showed us exactly when to start year 1. Now the Mesopotamia in 4000 BC fits with the timekeeping chart. Then we saw that the element and lifeforms of Genesis six days also fit the 6000 years of history since Adam. On the 1st day Geneis mentions the heaven and the EARTH, and the EARTH, was without form......On day two he divided the WATERS. On day three some "dry land" so plants could grow and produce 'AIR'. They grow toward the FIRE of the Sun. Then the fish sign for the early Christians until the Romans begin carring Christianity under the banner of the Eagle.(fow.) After the dark ages(animals) and in 1500 the Reformantion.(Age of Enlightenment) This period matches the second half of the day 6 creation. If we put this together and think about it we can see that were following THE BIBLE CODE. dan b
 
wil said:
prabu?

is that some kind of hint...so you've been at this since you were fourteen and you've come up with it all on your lonesome?
Click to expand...

Hi Will,

I never came up with anything. I'm noticing what it says in the bible and whats happened and is happining in the world. The miracles coming out today are happing because of a whole army of white clad ones following the "word of god". Rev.19__

I'm really interested in this imformation and not at all in personal slants or anything else. Who cares about us, were all just slave of God. Prabu means brother in Hindi. I though that because you say namaste your into it. I have been. If you just want to talk for it's own sake I'm out.
But if you want to know whats happening lets go! dan b
 
If you want help with understanding human origins, why not wait a bit and tune in to the upcoming show, The Human Spark, hosted by Alan Alda. It will be airing on PBS I believe, and will certainly be available online either for download, for streaming and/or for purchase. In three episodes they will explore what it means to be Human, including when and how our evolution proceeded over the millennia.

Since the Biblical chronology in the Hebrew Scriptures mirrors that of other traditions (such as the Puranas) and treats our progression symbolically, we need an esoteric KEY in order to decipher what the authors were trying to communicate. Modern science may be getting closer to the answers, but this is one case where I think the Kabbalists, Gnostics and other Christian esotericists are probably ahead of the game. Still, it might be worthwhile seeing how several of these pieces fit together.

The Egyptian Denderah Zodiac accurately dates our modern history to somewhere on the order of 78,000 years as I recall (~26K years X three iterations). This kind of tangible, objective evidence has long been available, but the so-called `experts' continue to puzzle over it. The water erosion found on the Sphinx, as mentioned, is enough to fly in the face of these Egyptologists who still cling to a history of only some several thousand years BCE for its origins.

So, getting back to Biblical archaeology, don't forget to study the Chaldean prototypes of many of these Hebrew myths, as well as parallel teachings from around the world. These are comparative investigations, to be sure, including such primary sources as the flood myth as related in the Mayan Popul Vuh. Also, note that esoteric commentaries cast us back 18 million years into the past in an effort to date the first appearance within Humanity of the Spiritual Spark (or at least, the spark of MIND, whence we derive the term `MANKIND' ... via the Sanskrit `manas'). This, we find related in the Bible through the discussions of the so-called Nephilim, the giants of yore, Enoch, and the several Adams - each with its own connotation and historical, as well as spiritual (or teleological and metaphysical) significance.

This is all just scratching the surface. But since civilization had already been around for 15-20 millions of years prior to even the earliest recorded Hebrew texts ... Humanity having survived not one but TWO major global catastrophes (in their several iterations, transpiring across thousands, even hundreds of thousands of years) ... I'm just glad that Hebrew and other texts do their best to record for us the major highlights both of Cosmogenesis and of Anthropogenesis. Remember, our tiny little planet, though not entirely insignificant or ordinary, is nevertheless like one grain of sand on an endless beach, or a single drop of water in the vast ocean of Cosmos.

We aren't here by chance, that much is for certain. And if we're doing our homework properly each new day and each recurring Season inches us one important step closer - not only toward deciphering the mysteries of our past, but also toward fulfilling our Purpose here upon Planet Earth in the present. It would be truly tragic if we lost touch altogether with the living, Real sense of this Purpose in modern times. So perhaps it is for that reason that our ancestors, especially those who had a keen, clear sense of Place and Purpose, have left us vital clues - including in some cases carefully preserved, written records - to help us along the way. :)
 
Ecc 1:7 All streams flow into the sea, yet the sea is never full. To the place the streams come from, there they return again.

Ecc 3:11 He has made everything beautiful in its time; also he has put eternity into man's mind, yet so that he cannot find out what God has done from the beginning to the end.

Rom 11:33 O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable [are] his judgments, and his ways past finding out!

Job 9:10-12 Who doeth great things past finding out; yea, marvellous things without number. Lo, He goeth by me, and I see Him not. He passeth on also, but I perceive Him not. Behold, He snatcheth away, who can hinder Him? Who will say unto Him: 'What doest Thou?'
 
Hi all again,

Well, I guess I started this thread and so I should let you know what my actual intentions were. I was trying to see if people would agree at least on the base of Genesis so that we could explore the amazing reallity that we are living in during the present. Sound puzzling. it is if you don't know the basics. It's very difficult for me explain.

Being as this world from Adam until today has crossed over 6000 years of development, I'm trying to show it's pattern. But if I have to discuss every little point on the way it's going at a snail's pace. I'll have no computer over Christmas holidays so wouln't be back till January 5th or so. So all this talk that weve been doing is come to nought? Should I tell you the amazing mystery that has made itself visable after 2000AD? But then do I have to define and defend every little dot and title? I'm only a mere human and can't do it. But if I told you the end you may or may not underatand it.

First God created the physical world and took his "7th day rest." Then Human Beings developed the world over 6000 years and now we are also taking our 6day(millenniums) rest. Then God will conclude it with the second death of Rev.20;16 Thats in 3000AD

How are we taking our 7th millinnium rest? Because Jesus said that "those who hear my voice and recognise it are given to me by God."Jn.__
So today the E.U. is forming, not as an anti-christ but as the forcast European Christian Israel. Jesus said that the 12 tribes of Israel will sit upon 12 thrones and rule. It's also in Rev 20;4 The routes of the 12 tribes into lEurope can be mensured on a modern map placing all their capital cities exactly the same distance apart. There are many more scolastic miracles to tell you about but my computer has only 3 minutes left. Anyway, we are in the millennium and the proofs are available! dan b
 
So this is all on your own, the teachings of danb, we've got a prophet in our midst?

Around here we realize there are a lot of belief systems that folks are attached to. And amongst those belief systems there are an infinite number of ideas of how exactly it works.

We are here to discuss and grow...and learn from each other. Sounds to me like you might be ready to rent your store front, sign up for cable access....build it and they will come.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top