Is Karma Unjust?

[The Undecided]

A Muslim friend of mine explained his objects to Karma. His basic point was that because karma states that everything that happens to you is because of your own actions in past lives many people can accept being oppressed or persecuted because they see it as their karma. In a social structure it encourages this behaviour, especially in the Hindu religion with the karma based hierarchy. Before this conversation I was convinced that karma was true, now I am not so sure. All view points welcome.

 

[Nick the Pilot]

Bad things happen for these reasons.

-We burn off bad karma.

-Before we were born, we set up specific lessons for us to learn in this life.

-We screw up.

-Some people agreed to burn off a larger-than-normal amount of bad karma in this life. We think we have a right to condemn such people, because of the pathetic situation they now find themselves in. Rather, we should commend and congratulate such people.

"...many people can accept being oppressed or persecuted because they see it as their karma...."

--> It may be their karma to endure. It may also be their karma to do something about it.

 

[Zenda71]

A Muslim friend of mine explained his objects to Karma. His basic point was that because karma states that everything that happens to you is because of your own actions in past lives many people can accept being oppressed or persecuted because they see it as their karma. In a social structure it encourages this behaviour, especially in the Hindu religion with the karma based hierarchy. Before this conversation I was convinced that karma was true, now I am not so sure. All view points welcome.

Hello.

To put it simply, karma is cause and effect. If someone commits a misdeed, there is negative karma; a positive deed, then positive karma; a neutral deed, then neutral karma. (Your intention when committing the act counts too.) The way I understand it, karma is impartial, kind of like gravity on the surface of the earth. It is what it is. Those who persecute or oppress others will have the karmic consequences of those actions. Those who are persecuted or oppressed will have to experience karmic consequences. Those who use karma as an excuse to harm others or allow themselves to be harmed will have those karmic consequences. (Or, as Nick says, some people when experiencing negative things, rejoice in the opportunity to "burn off" bad karma, which is a pretty remarking POV.)

When you really start thinking about it, there are innumerable potential causes and conditions and effects. (And it's said that only a Buddha can see them all.)

Hope this helps. If not, please ignore it!

 

[Snoopy]

A Muslim friend of mine explained his objects to Karma. His basic point was that because karma states that everything that happens to you is because of your own actions in past lives many people can accept being oppressed or persecuted because they see it as their karma. In a social structure it encourages this behaviour, especially in the Hindu religion with the karma based hierarchy. Before this conversation I was convinced that karma was true, now I am not so sure. All view points welcome.

Hi The

Er, no. Can the law of gravity be unjust?

Where is this statement of karma from then? A Hindu source?

My understanding is that since all phenomena are interconnected, to view the law of karma in such a simplistic manner is rather optimistic.

s.

 

[citizenzen]

People often mistake karma for being a cosmic tape recorder, taking down all our actions only to play them back to us at some future time.

If you murder someone, you don't just harm or effect that one person, you effect thousands of people: the family, friends, neighbors, police, lawyers, judges, juries, journalists, their readers, etc. Your action is broadcast out and its reverberations are felt and acted upon by others.

Every person down the line will alter their behavior in some way based on that act. Perhaps they will begin carrying a gun, go out less, find comfort in alcohol or drugs, or merely become a little more cynical about humanity. These behaviors are then broadcast out and their reverberations have their effect.

Every act, every gesture, every thought reverberates around the world and creates the conditions we live in today and tomorrow and in the future. The actions that you take today create the conditions that you will live under one day when you are reborn. So while there is no cosmic tape recorder, the murder that you committed in this life in some way will affect you in your next life.

Good actions reverberate as well. I suggest we spread as many of those as we can.

 

[taijasi]

I believe Gandhi, and others, told us that what we do may not be important, but it IS important that we do it!

His Holiness the Dalai Lama also tells us that - even if we only do so for primarily self-focused reasons, it is nevertheless a far wiser, more sensible choice to adopt and follow the Golden Rule, than to do harm to others or wish them ill will. The Golden Rule is not just a good idea, it is sound logic. Treating others poorly can only result in the experiencing of what we call `misfortune.'

It may be helpful to remember that a Buddha does not become a Buddha by outsmarting, avoiding, debating, defeating or somehow defusing the Law of Cause and Effect. As we sow, so too shall we reap. This Universal Law, like all others, and like their parent Law of LOVE, must be understood, applied and mastered.

Until we've achieved that degree of mastery, we too may marvel and ask,

What manner of man is this, that even the winds and the sea obey him!
​

Karma may be looked at as a friend who helps prepare us, every step of the way, to come into such an estate.

 

[shawn]

It is good karma to shed our desire to see people punished.
Let it go.

 

[Gatekeeper]

We are in this life together

A Muslim friend of mine explained his objects to Karma. His basic point was that because karma states that everything that happens to you is because of your own actions in past lives many people can accept being oppressed or persecuted because they see it as their karma. In a social structure it encourages this behaviour, especially in the Hindu religion with the karma based hierarchy. Before this conversation I was convinced that karma was true, now I am not so sure. All view points welcome.

I'm a Christian, so I certainly believe that we reap what we sow. I think we will always eat the substance of our own tree, whether it be good or bad. Our actions, attitudes, dispositions, etc follow us wherever we go.

Even so, I also believe that it works on a collective level. We are one body (Mankind) and we experience not only the effects of what we do, but also what others do, which is obvious when you look at the big picture. Like citizenzen suggested, our every action effects all of us.

The point being, and the beauty in this is that we each have an opportunity to change ourselves, whereby the change made in us sends out waves of good 'karma' [Energy] across the globe. Like a snowball, the good (Energy) within each of us builds as it makes its way around the world.

The same is true for the negativity in us (Dead Energy). It effects others not grounded in (Love), but those who have been rooted and grounded in love will not be effected 'Spiritually' by the negative 'karma' (Dead Energy) that so many bring into this life. The good karma produced however, certainly effects those who suffer with negativity in a positive manner.

Take a battery for instance: The positive terminal (Love) is not receptive to the negative at all. The negative terminal (Lust) however IS, and can be influenced and turned into a positive when the positive connects to the negative.

In Christian terms, it is the positive influence of the Spirit (Love) has on the Flesh (Lust) which leads us (Man) to life. Anyway, what I'm suggesting is that when we ourselves change we help our world change too. It is through our (+) Karmic energy (Love) that we all one day will live together as one in paradise (Heaven).


GK

 

[AndreG]

I believe Gandhi, and others, told us that what we do may not be important, but it IS important that we do it!

His Holiness the Dalai Lama also tells us that - even if we only do so for primarily self-focused reasons, it is nevertheless a far wiser, more sensible choice to adopt and follow the Golden Rule, than to do harm to others or wish them ill will. The Golden Rule is not just a good idea, it is sound logic. Treating others poorly can only result in the experiencing of what we call `misfortune.'

It may be helpful to remember that a Buddha does not become a Buddha by outsmarting, avoiding, debating, defeating or somehow defusing the Law of Cause and Effect. As we sow, so too shall we reap. This Universal Law, like all others, and like their parent Law of LOVE, must be understood, applied and mastered.

Until we've achieved that degree of mastery, we too may marvel and ask,

What manner of man is this, that even the winds and the sea obey him!
​

Karma may be looked at as a friend who helps prepare us, every step of the way, to come into such an estate.

well said

 

[The Undecided]

Thank you for your comments, they have helped.

 

[nativeastral]

just watched an excellent documentary on channel 4 'tsnuami, where was god?' where former monk mark dowd travels to the areas one year on and looks at the differing attitudes and reactions from the various religious perspectives, muslim, hindu, buddhist and christian, that were all involved. well worth watching on 4 on demand if you can.