Victor
Silver Haired Member
Well, good afternoon to all. It seems that our frantic weather is over for the time being... have never seen so much snow and cold in the southeast before and I've been in this house for 46 years! Ahanu, you speak of dreams, I speak of visions. There is much difference between the two. We can get into specifics shortly, if I may, or you can peek in at "Are Atheists smarter than...".
Shawn, my friend, let's have at it! I know I have a soul because of my life-experience. Oddly enough I am a Trekky... even at my age. One episode of the Next Generation was titled, "The Measure of a Man." It was an excellent production that examined Data's inner (spiritual) nature. Was he a machine or a sentient being! In the end, the judge hearing the case made a statement , (approximate version)... "what we're actually asking here is, does Data have a soul. I don't know, I don't know if I have one, but he must be given the right to choose......." I think first we must define what a 'soul' is. Is it of the same nature as our concepts of God? And if we are not believers, a spiritual deity does not even enter into the equation.
So, Ahanu, here WE go, and we'll take Shawn with us... As a believer I personally define the 'soul' as an extension of 'Deity' that gives us 'life', 'existence'. It is an independant, self-governing sentience that functions beyond, and independant from, our physical being (including the brain and brain waves) which has no physical properties and is eternal in nature. The mere fact that I dream is an extension we generally attribute to all intelligent (sentient) beings. The difference I perceive is that dreams are for 'entertainment'... Ahanu, how many of your dreams come true in the physical world? My visions, and the visions of the very few with whom I am acquainted, ALL eventually come to pass in our material existence. They have been, in my experience, previews of future events, and that creates a BIG problem!
Without 'daring' to question whether future events are already determined, please let's not go there, (a subject dealing with physics and metaphysics), most 'visions' come to us as complex dreams (waking or sleeping, and I have both) which entail the recognition of complex figures, icons, and pictures of alien design. The understanding of a vision depends on the translation of what we have 'seen', and most are beyond the ability of the physical to fathom. Then if our human brains do not have the capacity to 'explain' the details of the vision, our understanding depends on a facet that we cannot knowingly manipulate... the soul! Often, after having a vision, there is a period of meditation, or prayer, and in the silence that follows, an understanding materializes. It may not be immediate, it may take days.... even years. But when it comes to us it is as an 'epiphany', an instant and complete understanding that cannot possibly come from a 'mental' or physical process.
We speak of 'soul-mates'. In the true case, there is an instant, 'knowing', a 'bonding', if you will, that goes beyond any possible physical recognition.
This type of inner sense, awareness, does not come from the brain; eyesight, hearing, or sense of touch. In our 'wondering' we must conclude that there is another facet of our being that allows for such things, and that I must personally attribute to the presence of the 'soul'! And here, I might be insinuating that the 'soul' does not necessarily have to be of a 'religious' nature. (Underline that thought for future reference.)
As one example I would point you to the prophet, Ezekiel....Edgar Allen Poe never had dreams like that and I doubt that anyone today can begin to explain or interpret what he saw, and yet the exposition of his visions are 'Old Testamental'! (lol)
In ending this present session I would tell you this. When my mother-in-law passed away, I was standing alone beside her. It was silent, it was painles for her. And as I watched I saw a soft envelope of light rise from her body and slowly fade into the night. (God rest her eternal soul.)
I am open to your comments as all I seek here is knowledge.
Shawn, my friend, let's have at it! I know I have a soul because of my life-experience. Oddly enough I am a Trekky... even at my age. One episode of the Next Generation was titled, "The Measure of a Man." It was an excellent production that examined Data's inner (spiritual) nature. Was he a machine or a sentient being! In the end, the judge hearing the case made a statement , (approximate version)... "what we're actually asking here is, does Data have a soul. I don't know, I don't know if I have one, but he must be given the right to choose......." I think first we must define what a 'soul' is. Is it of the same nature as our concepts of God? And if we are not believers, a spiritual deity does not even enter into the equation.
So, Ahanu, here WE go, and we'll take Shawn with us... As a believer I personally define the 'soul' as an extension of 'Deity' that gives us 'life', 'existence'. It is an independant, self-governing sentience that functions beyond, and independant from, our physical being (including the brain and brain waves) which has no physical properties and is eternal in nature. The mere fact that I dream is an extension we generally attribute to all intelligent (sentient) beings. The difference I perceive is that dreams are for 'entertainment'... Ahanu, how many of your dreams come true in the physical world? My visions, and the visions of the very few with whom I am acquainted, ALL eventually come to pass in our material existence. They have been, in my experience, previews of future events, and that creates a BIG problem!
Without 'daring' to question whether future events are already determined, please let's not go there, (a subject dealing with physics and metaphysics), most 'visions' come to us as complex dreams (waking or sleeping, and I have both) which entail the recognition of complex figures, icons, and pictures of alien design. The understanding of a vision depends on the translation of what we have 'seen', and most are beyond the ability of the physical to fathom. Then if our human brains do not have the capacity to 'explain' the details of the vision, our understanding depends on a facet that we cannot knowingly manipulate... the soul! Often, after having a vision, there is a period of meditation, or prayer, and in the silence that follows, an understanding materializes. It may not be immediate, it may take days.... even years. But when it comes to us it is as an 'epiphany', an instant and complete understanding that cannot possibly come from a 'mental' or physical process.
We speak of 'soul-mates'. In the true case, there is an instant, 'knowing', a 'bonding', if you will, that goes beyond any possible physical recognition.
This type of inner sense, awareness, does not come from the brain; eyesight, hearing, or sense of touch. In our 'wondering' we must conclude that there is another facet of our being that allows for such things, and that I must personally attribute to the presence of the 'soul'! And here, I might be insinuating that the 'soul' does not necessarily have to be of a 'religious' nature. (Underline that thought for future reference.)
As one example I would point you to the prophet, Ezekiel....Edgar Allen Poe never had dreams like that and I doubt that anyone today can begin to explain or interpret what he saw, and yet the exposition of his visions are 'Old Testamental'! (lol)
In ending this present session I would tell you this. When my mother-in-law passed away, I was standing alone beside her. It was silent, it was painles for her. And as I watched I saw a soft envelope of light rise from her body and slowly fade into the night. (God rest her eternal soul.)
I am open to your comments as all I seek here is knowledge.
