How Ironic you find it comfortable to come into the Christian forum and plop down in a "proverbial chair" and slam those that believe this way.
If I plop down in my proverbial chair and tell you what I think of your beliefs about those who
do not believe as you do - for clearly I have struck a nerve here, or else I would not gather such a reaction {who's the one sitting in his comfy chair now? happy to believe what he will, unless challenged, and shown how small his beliefs try to make others feel, how disadvantaged, how excluded, how - unprivileged} - then try not to take it as such a "slam." Perhaps I am simply showing how foolish you look when you carry on this way, about eternal hells and impossible heavens.
Quahom said:
You wouldn't try it in say oh, Islam, now would you...
If I had been brought up in a Muslim background, and saw the most cherished doctrines of that Faith being butchered upon the table of
convenience ... and saw an opportunity to point out what the FOUNDER of that Faith had actually taught, then yes, I would gladly do so, however UNpopular my post might be with the resident bully and forum powermonger {practice what you preach, do you?}.
Quahom said:
Wouldn't do well in any other "faith" forum either. But you are comfortable here...why, I wonder.
No, Joshua. Not comfortable at all in your well-policed little clique. But that hasn't stopped me from sharing what I have to share, on occasion. And if this little bee stirs up an angry hornet, then from time to time it is worth the distraction. Once again, it gives you a chance to take a step back a moment, and THINK.
Quahom said:
Is it because we tolerate much more than others do? Perhaps we are a tad more long suffering for the likes of you? Or is it because you think Christians are weak kneed, and you can run rough shod over the bulk of those professing such?
Tolerate more than others? My friend, you are the first (
literally in this case) to snap back - even to meet an eye for an eye, if you insist this is what it is ... the one who felt the need to try and quash an opinion which you neither understand, nor care to understand. "The likes of me?" Ha! Your true colors are showing ... and I don't like them. I especially don't like your Braveheart mentality, your saber-rattling and misplaced bravado, all because you can't stand to accept the truth. For I did include the Catholics, as well as the Baptists, Orthodox and Independents in my post,
as I made clear. Now it's time to face the music, Joshua. I would like to hear a defense. Stop dodging the question. Stop trying to browbeat me. Stop playing strong-man, and take a look at these knees you keep kicking at. I am not interested in your dirty tricks, nor will I steal your crutches ... if all you can do is cry foul!
There is a difference - between kicking for a man's knees, proverbially, intellectually, or conversationally speaking ... and asking him to say something about EITHER of
one good leg he OUGHT to have left to stand on.
Go on my friend; I'm scouting for you, but so far I only see the Adversary.
Joshua said:
Did you ever consider the fact that we don't laugh at your apparent anger? We simply pray about it.
As for prayer, try taking refuge FOR YOURSELF in prayer ... before asking it for others.
You cannot pray me away, for I am your fellow man. Your Prayers for me should include that "God's Will be Done." Such - is ever enough.
If I seem angry, then perhaps you have not considered that it is the distortions themselves which cause me the most sorrow, even more than those who are responsible. But regardless, if you yourself can see the grotesque images men have painted, why do you not hasten to tend to the Master's art? Why do you even speak of laughing at one who - likewise - seeks to serve Him? Why do you feel that it is LAUGHTER which I am seeking? Cry if you must, become outraged alongside me, or - if you cannot understand the reason for either, try Meditation. It's like Prayer, but - different. And both have their place.
Joshua said:
And if you are any officianado about history (and I know you are), you'll recall that Mahatma Ghandi, was of the same ilk, and you seemed to like him.
Mahatma Ghandi believed in using what was necessary for a given situation, in order to solve whatever was the problem at hand. Casting him in the light of a pure pacifist, a silent, meditating monk ... is like saying Jesus wore sandals.
Joshua said:
So, why you are so damn angry with Christians TODAY, is beyond me.
It saddens me.
Then I shall meet you in your sadness, and tell you mine. For that is what is more important than the anger, and the lashing out. The latter only protects what is
closer to our hearts.
I am saddened because I notice that so many people aim low, because they believe low. Being told they are innately worthless, or of any less importance than others, young children begin to lose their God-given, nature-seconded INNOCENCE. Instead of receiving a positive self-image and self-esteem, being taught that every human has innate DIGNITY and Divine Potential, a young person in the Christian community has often had to wrestle with what he or she KNOWS AT HEART to be a flawed doctrine. Even though every child is perfectly in tune, on certain levels, with the Divine Father-Mother God, s/he must confront more and more as the years go by, the cunning, deceitful doctrines which the Church has hatched out of its scaly, reptilian underbelly ... until finally, s/he is asked to believe in such an abomination (
sic) as the notion of an `eternal hell' - which any true thinker should long ago have discovered to be
impossible.
Almost as disgusting, but certainly every bit as damaging, the sense of spiritual Responsibility which should develop naturally within such children - and which WOULD if nature could be allowed to take its course - becomes warped and bent around a facile fear-reward system, psychologically speaking, wherein "The worship of a
MAN who lived and died 2100 years ago becomes demanded, the reward being an IMPOSSIBLE eternal stay in a ridiculous and logically impossible `heaven' ... while sin & moral error, though unavoidable due to our `degraded human nature' is met with the equally ridiculous impossibility, `hell.'"
Oh you have a right to brainwash your children thus, you say? Flesh of your flesh, yadda yadda? Think again. There is something called FREE WILL, Joshua my Brother ... and what that means to me is that you do NOT have the right to tell God's children what they can and can't, must or mustn't BELIEVE - including "in order to GET TO HEAVEN." HELLOOOOOO???? Am I making myself
CLEAR???
And you see, what's saddest about all this to me, is that those who have been thusly brainwashed, of whatever background - or prior sense of sound judgment and anchoring in reality - become so sucked in by this
underside of Christianity ... that they can only conceive of one thing: Let us bring MORE believers "into the fold," that we may increase our numbers, so that it be pleasing to the Lord, yadda yadda.
It is NOT pleasing to the Lord to make sheep of good, thinking men and women. These are ALL His Children, and I am as ashamed that you cannot see it in your brother(s) and sister(s) as that you fail to detect Him, or positive motivations, within me. What's wrong, Joshua, do I present a difficult case for you? Why is that?
If you don't understand me, just ask. If you don't understand my viewpoint, just ask ... and I will clarify it. Maybe, if you pick up on the anger I have toward the foolish and their foolishness (and it is mostly the latter, though it is the former who perpetuate it) ... you might ask yourself, Why is it that I am so disturbed by the Christian `clique' mentality - and by the belief system that underlies it?
Is it because Christians often try to remember others, and reach out to them in their times of need? Is it because Christians are often quite welcoming of visitors, and eager to share the Joy and Blessings with others which they have received in their Faith walk (or Path, as some would call it)? Or is perhaps because Christians choose a particular way to honor our spiritual origins, and insist on looking to the Divine for answers, comfort and guidance?
No, Joshua, these - in my eyes - are what makes Christianity strong, and what I LIKE about Christians, even if I am asked to love you all ... despite the rest of the crap, and nonsense.
Do I feel left out, of your cliques and your heaven club, your A-lists and B-lists?
No, Joshua, I do not. I am content to stand here in my little corner, each time you direct me here, since what you cannot do - is welcome me AS I AM, without insisting that I
believe as you believe, do as you do, speak as you speak, and appear as you would have me appear.
I know you believe differently, hold somewhat different values (perhaps not impossibly different) ... and that you choose to see within one man certain ideals which I believe we may equally well identify within dozens of others. And what of it? I can accept that difference. Can you?
While there are plenty of things that I can learn from Christians behavior-wise ... I'm sure a thing or two by way of Practical Wisdom along the way ... I find it curious that certain Christians seem convinced there is simply -
no further insight to be gained along the lines of their
convictions to which they hold so tenaciously ... some of which, ultimately, amount to nothing more than
dust in the wind (by their own definition).
In short, many a Christian would not know Christ if s/he met him viz a viz ... as I believe Christ Himself tells you quite plainly in your `Holy Book.' And so it shall come to pass (as it does every, single day) - and no, I'm not sitting here feeling smug about it, or laughing, or doing the kind of finger-pointing that some delight in engaging in, except to clarify what a beautiful new suit the Emperor seems to think he has dressed himself with today.
Feel free to count me among that goodly number, btw, even if I am NOT, nor profess myself to be - a Christian. Just don't be so certain that you, yourself, are excepted. Remember, it is I who say that to pursue this Heaven/Hell business is to do the Devil's own bidding ... and of course, in time, each shall know whether I am full of crap, or not so full of crap.
Notice, for the record, that I did not say that ALL Christians have this superiority issue, and clique mentality, and awful confusion about the nature of cycles and such. I did not even say that MOST of them do. Funny how you took such offense, however, Q, and found it necessary to rush out to the defense of ... those who might - for whatever curious reason - feel slighted?
Hmmm ...
It's the words in blue, Q, the words in blue. For me it's usually those you can hone in on. Everybody wants a pat on the back, and only to be told, "Keep on doing more of the same!" What a pity, if
more of the same ISN'T really
where it's at. Oh, isn't it a pity. And yes, those who are on the right track probably do know it - well enough, often enough - for there is no lack of guidance, and no lack of leadership ... for the Righteous and Just. There could
never be too many good examples, too many virtuous men and women, or too many children, maturing Children, in God's Heavenly Kingdom.
Why is it, that even when we express things in the positive, it still does not sit rightly with you, or seem proper, if we do not express it
just so?
Have no fear, friend, I don't sense a whole lot of bees dancing out of tune ... yet. All I hear is one, angry wasp, buzzing about the hive - and although you have accused me of being this wasp, I'm not so sure you realize yet: That Satan, cannot cast out, Satan.
In other words, try the fifth verse of the Twin Verses (ch.1) of the Dhammapada again. It's a good refresher - for a Christian. Just don't feel so obliged to smack me upside the head with Matthew 5:39 as with a dead and smelly fish. Live bait means living Teachings, and those of the Buddha are no different in this situation than those of the Christ. Is that really so hard to appreciate?
Back to my original statements, in the former post: IF you first hit me upside the head with a dead, smelly fish, THEN try to tell me that I can avoid future fish-deaths (?) ... let alone such an awful, fishy smell (yes, it's FISHY my friend, fishy as hell is more like it!) ... by bowing down before your god-image and declaring my unswerving allegiance ... you will have to understand why I make it plain to you that I prefer vegetarian fare, NO thank you sir, and I guess that's end of story.
The resident Catholics all feel, that as I have made it so official that I do not like DEAD, SMELLY FISH, I am in no wise qualified to make commentary on the rituals and practices associated with FISH-WORSHIP ... even while I insist that the bounty before the Lord (meaning, that which He has prepared, and is preparing for, US) is far in excess of any of these individual feasts, or meals, which we find it so important to daily, or weekly, place before HIM.
And do I say that there is no meaning, symbolism and Purpose for Prayer, the Eucharist/Holy Communion, or Worship?
You paint me something I am not, Joshua. Let me abstain, if I would return that unkindness to you.
Methinks I waste my time.
