Why do we exist?

Please define "illusion".
An appearance of something that has various attributes and characteristics. Upon examination, the attributes and characteristics are found to be non-existent. So the something that appears is a non-existent. In short, an illusion is the appearance of a non-existent.
 
An appearance of something that has various attributes and characteristics. Upon examination, the attributes and characteristics are found to be non-existent. So the something that appears is a non-existent. In short, an illusion is the appearance of a non-existent.

Non-existent?

I can see calling it impermanent.

But non-existent seems a little overstated.
 
CZ,

Think of it like this. We presently are incarnating inside of physical bodies, and many people think that our physical bodies and this physical world are "real." But the day will come when we no longer have physical bodies, and we will be just as alive as we are now. So, this physical world is truly only an illusion, and is not part of our true reality.
 
CZ, Think of it like this.

Like I said, if you want to talk about illusion in terms of impermanence, then I'm fine with that. But OAT seems to be taking it another step beyond that. I would have to ask, how does your "illusory" life differ? I will bet that OAT still eats, sleeps, works, plays, feels pain and pleasure just like everyone else.

So, how is that an illusion?
 
So, OAT and Nick,then this universe is being generated, so to speak, in some vast holo-deck and our true selves are stuck in this virtual construct which is just a really, really good simulation of creation??
This then is what you mean by illusion?
 
CZ,

Because OAT's ability to feel physical pain will disappear when his physical body disappears. Therefore, his ability to feel physical pain is not a part of his true nature. His ability to feel physical pain is something that was added to him after his true essence came to be, and will be removed when it is no longer necessary. So, such physical pain is an illusion.
 
i reckon physical reality as we know it is just the tip of the iceburg, but IMO its still real though.
 
Please define "illusion".
*chuckle* An aside: I get some enjoyment out of citizenzen saying "Define". I don't know why, but its like his/her thing somehow; and really nothing can truly be defined except by experiences. Without direct experiences you work mostly with analogies and references to experiences. I am always waiting to read the next Define Challenge somebody will post. If I make an argument, I should stay away as much as possible from words requiring definition or somebody might just ask me for one. Great green greasy gravy if I can't answer them.
 
{I believe we exist:}

To live, to learn, to share, to play;
To grow, to serve, to BE each day.


We're lookin' through a glass onion ... and the physical, like the astral, like the mental - is just a layer. These are outer layers of being (more like layers of skin) with respect to "the One within Whom we live, and move, and have our being."

Hmmm ... the ONE! ;)

The following quote, attributed to Chief Seattle, seems to say it all relative to our existence here upon this planet:
"The earth is our mother. Whatever befalls the earth befalls the sons and daughters of the earth. This we know. All things are connected like the blood which unites one family. All things are connected.

Whatever befalls the earth befalls the sons and daughters of the earth. We did not weave the web of life, we are merely strands in it. Whatever we do to the web we do to ourselves."
If studying environmental science helps us to understand this, then good!
If Christ's words ("As ye sow, so shall ye reap", "Do unto others ...", etc.) make this clear, then good!
If the same teaching in Buddhism (Karma, Rebirth, Cause and Effect) appeals, then good!
If a more modern expression of the same Law seems to fit (`What goes around, comes around!'), then good!
And if, even through much suffering, we come to realize the same Truths ... then GOOD! :)

I am convinced that our Earth is a great experiment, certainly, but also much more. It is a nursery, a schoolroom, a beautiful Lotus (or chakra) in the Heavenly body of our Solar Lord. We are tiny strands in the web of Life, as the quote indicates. We may seem insignificant, and we may even be so, relative to the bigger picture. After all, of the many TRILLIONS of cells in the average human body, how much do you miss a few (hundred, or thousand) which you might lose on any given day?

How foolish we are with our vainglory imaginings at times. How ridiculously presumptuous! Yet - whether we miss the majesty and utter such words as Pilate did, or perhaps use this expression with wonder, awe and innocent appreciation - can we not, should we not exclaim,
"Ecce homo!"

Beauty abounds within our world - both natural and manmade. Is this not part of our Purpose here? Surely it is not merely superfluous, or an idle distraction. Surely Beauty Itself is related to, close to the very heart of, our innermost being - and thus also our purpose here. Beauty, which is also not unrelated to pride and vanity (correlating, perhaps, to lower - maybe intellectual - expressions of this spiritual Quality).

Hmmm ...

As well we might ponder the PURPOSE for the existence of the vegetable kingdom, for this kingdom is supposed to have certain parallels to the human.

The dream, GK, sounds wonderful. Maybe it indicates in symbolic or allegorical form our true, spiritual relationship(s) to our Heavenly predecessors, to our Parent Source, etc. Could it be that our Fall from `Grace' is the descent into form, into incarnation, into this IMperfect world ... and that part of our very charge here - our spiritual DUTY, our God-assigned Responsibility - is to help transform this planet, step by step, little by little, into a better representation of that IDEAL which we (mostly all) can acknowledge, recognize, visualize and desire?

That's what I've been assuming, and this is why I feel such chagrin at times when I look around and see what we're doing to the place, how little respect we show to the home which our Predecessors (our Heavenly Antecedents) have provided for us. What poor care we are taking of it. And what excuse shall we have when we are asked to answer for the catastrophes which we ourselves have caused ... and are causing!

I would make a safe bet, that our purpose here extends MILLIONS of years into the future. Why, I would even say billions. And that, for the moment, I would have to argue, applies to each and every one of us! :)

Maybe time we all started acting like it ... ;)
 
*chuckle* An aside: I get some enjoyment out of citizenzen saying "Define".

I'm trying to clarify my understanding of what a person means before offering my perspective.

I would think that most people would appreciate that I don't leap immediately to assumptions... there's plenty of time for that later. :D
 
Because OAT's ability to feel physical pain will disappear when his physical body disappears. Therefore, his ability to feel physical pain is not a part of his true nature.

I just don't dig that.

You're basing an assumption about this current state by comparing it to a future state... one which is purely speculative. If you want to talk about an illusion I'd say that your POV certainly qualifies as illusory.

I have no idea what my "true nature" really is. I have no idea what will happen after I die. All I do know is this moment. As far as I can tell, this moment is my true nature, not some supposed state that exists in another time and place... this moment.
 
NeoGnostic Pantheist,

You asked,

"How can reality be an illiusion?"

--> The example we are using here is the loss of the physical bosy at death. There are certain things which can only be experienced through a physical body, for example, physical pain. I believe that, once we discard our physical body, we will no longer be able to experience physical pain. (However, we will still be just as conscious and aware as we were before.) Physical pain, then, is just an illusion. By extention, then, everything of the physical world is an illusion.
 
I believe that, once we discard our physical body, we will no longer be able to experience physical pain. (However, we will still be just as conscious and aware as we were before.) Physical pain, then, is just an illusion. By extention, then, everything of the physical world is an illusion.

I guess it's just a matter of definition. It was morning a few hours ago. I guess this morning was an illusion. I was a child once. That must have been an illusion too.

This discussion seems eerily similar to the free will discussion starring rodgertutt. I have to ask a question that I asked of him...

Assuming that everything is illusion, how does it change the way you live your life? If you got fired from your job yesterday, even though that was an illusion, you're still unemployed today.

Using the impermanence model I'd say that everything changes: yesterday I had a job and today I do not.

How do illusionists see it?
 
So, OAT and Nick,then this universe is being generated, so to speak, in some vast holo-deck and our true selves are stuck in this virtual construct which is just a really, really good simulation of creation??
This then is what you mean by illusion?
I think that is a good analogy. That's why in Buddhism, becoming completely enlightened is liken to waking up from a dream. While dreaming, everything is seen as real and solid. Feelings feel real etc.
 
See? That's why definitions are so important.
Actually, it is not definition but logic.

I stated Existence = Illusion

NGP then assumed Existence = Reality and then make the logical error in stating Reality = Illusion

In summary, what NGP did was

Existence = Illusion
Existence = Reality
Therefore Reality = Illusion
 
Back
Top