Yes but Amergin, I think you need to think beyond the box here a little. You know, outside the boundaries of your usual tack.
I certainly agree that we are screwing our world up, a bit worse every day in plenty of respects, blaspheming merrily as we go ... since we do this "in Jesus' name" (I can imagine no worse way to dishonor this man).
But I do not agree with some of your reasoning or conclusions.
I find that the `Jesus myth' has been grafted onto the existing Jewish ideology emphasizing suffering and sacrifice, but that people really have no clue what any of this is about to begin with. You will probably disagree with MY reasoning, but you know, I'm just looking at the stars, and drawing my own conclusions. Sure, I borrow from the Wisdom and Insight of the Masters, the Seers and Sages, Judaism's own most revered Prophets and Messiahs ... yet the average Christian can understand their indications about as well as ... well, MUD.
Does the smack in the forehead feel offensive to some? Okay then, PROVE ME WRONG. Prove that there are still THINKING Christians out there, and not just more ... SHEEP.
Yes, Amergin, I do feel that it's about ~ SHEEP. You see, a few turns ago of the Zodiacal wheel, when the S~n was in, say, TAURUS, the world was a different place. Has the S~n been in Taurus before? Yes. He appears, as Promised, to His People (that's ALL OF US, folks ... a message which the Christians, like the Jews, have fundamentally misunderstood) in EVERY zodiacal sign. Each time, there is a new `twist.' There is a new message, which may key in on the message of the previous sign, and continue it, while also keying in on the UNIVERSAL significance of Taurus, or Aries, or Pisces ... yet which also reveals something NEW of God's relationship with Humanity, and how the latter can make a NEW APPROACH to her Parent (truly being BORN AGAIN).
So umm, Taurus was ~ nothing new ~ yet it was *certainly* something none of us had ever experienced, something Humanity had not been through, on THIS turn of the proverbial spiral. {And that's just what the zodiac is, folks. It's a SPIRAL. A wheel is closed, and if twelve, or ten, or eleven or thirteen signs were simply REPEATED, over and over and over again, it might be a true `wheel.' But it's not. Each Major Cycle of ~26 thousand years bumps us forward, even if we blow ourselves into smithereens in the interim. When we finally reach that point where we formerly left off, we rise to even greater heights, with greater accomplishments, and ~ sometimes ~ gaining greater insights into our Nature and our Purpose here. And SOMEtimes we even do something about it, and choose to move forward ... although currently you have almost an entire religion ~ or more ~ which is doing a damn good job of impersonating a stick in the mud. A stick that is sinking ... and nobody can pull it out, except those who STUCK it there. And yeah, the priesthood/modern-day Sanhedrin has some SERIOUS Karma that's smashing them in the face these days, but ahh, that's for THEM to deal with, so ... back to the plot.}
Taurus was the sign and the age into which the followers of Moses regressed. When the man came down from Mt. Sinai bringing with him instructions for the new dispensation, the people were all screwing sheep, worshipping Tammuz and whatnot. They had forsaken the PROMISED RAM, or LAMB of Aries ... and got stuck in the `old ways.' This does not mean that the S~n failed to enter into Aries. He tends to uhh, do that, every time that sign comes around again on the guitar. And, regardless as to what God's people choose, there is always a little bit of movement forward. It just sometimes occurs that NOT ALL of what is or was possible for Humanity (even for the `Faithful'), remains possible, or gets accomplished. THUS, when increasingly-Christed Jesus prayed in the Garden of Gethsemane, He saw precisely what a great and difficult challenge lay ahead. He understood that our greatest potential, for PISCES (which the S~n entered about 255BC), could not and would not be reached *at least* until the dawn of the next zodiacal Era, Aquarius, some ~2000 years into the future. This, I should think, even for the Son of Man who is a Son of God, was cause for concern. Divine Patience is one thing, but knowing that something COULD have been accomplished, if only the right effort might have been applied, ah well ~ I think I can see how that would cause even the Christ to experience a degree of disappointment. The setback was/is something which has affected every single human Soul on the planet, for all of these 2000 years and more ... and we're STILL, not at all out of danger and experiencing clear sailing.
The problem as I see it, is that the Christians really have no idea just how intricately connected all things are, from atom, to human, to God. Each relates to the other by matter of scale. One evolves into the other. Christ knew this; Christ taught this. So did every other Savior, Redeemer, Awakened and Enlightened One. Christ holds certain unique honors and responsibilities with relation to Humanity, and thus also to the Kingdoms beyond (the 5th Kingdom, the Kingdom of Heaven, and the 6th, for which we have as yet no meaningful name ... as if we understand the 5th!). Christ is said to be the first of our own Humanity to have reached THE GOAL, while Buddha ~ strictly speaking ~ belongs to a former wave, or manvantara of evolution. No Teacher would deny this.
Yet the Christians cannot see what fools they make of themselves. They try to claim a `unique revelation,' and become the laughing-stock. Instead of being able to see the beautiful, if intricate handiwork of the Creator, the ways in which the Universal Perfection has been mirrored here upon Earth, into every single atom, and into their very DNA ... they want to kick and scream and scratch and claw, and try to insist that God has promised THEM something. Something eternal, and an EASY WAY OUT, in response for a bit of lip service, and as reward for a FINITE ~ and relatively minor contribution.
Man, nevermind trying to show that the handiwork of God, and the wonders that have been authored in each and EVERY sign, by each and EVERY one of Earth's hundreds, even thousands of (mostly forgotten) peoples, are worthy of study and admiration as we seek to know more about our origins and Destiny ... these are the same people who would gladly stand by and actually be OKAY if there were such garbage and nonsense as `eternal hells,' into which this LOVING GOD of theirs would supposedly cast the non-believers, while they remained safe and sound in their little delusions, thinking that eternal bliss was just around the next corner. Oh, don't let those sulfuric fumes and the burning flesh smell bother you, Jesus will make it all go away.
No, Amergin, I do agree. No one but an idiot could entertain such nonsense. But I disagree that religion is ... the opiate of the masses. It is not delusion. It is not fantasy. And if you can look at the DNA spiral, or a redwood, or the Cat's Eye Nebula, or your own, amazing HAND ... and not have a recurring `AHA' which reminds you that we are ~ very, very tiny, but no less the Creation of an AMAZING and Loving Parent SOURCE [Itself, Parentless], then you haven't yet looked enough. Meditate more, persuade less. Trust me, it's a waste of time. The Jesus-freaks are going to remain that way for some time. Pisces, though we are now a full five decades into Aquarius, is yet too much with these people. They take much of their inspiration from the example of Jesus, and there is nothing wrong with that. On the contrary, they aspire to emulate [in their better moments] one of the greatest Souls Humanity has ever known. They understand very little of His sacrifice, and I won't claim to understand the rest of it. I do know that it is not about, certainly NOT mainly about being being willing to die for one's friends or students. If that were all it takes to be a God, Humanity would already be mostly Enlightened by now. But hey, simple logic and common sense escapes the sheep ... just as the notion of treading lightly sometimes escapes me.
I just can't stand seeing so much bashing, if the message and motivation behind it is something like, `Religion is for the feeble-minded.'
My point, then?
I'm saying that the Myth is there, yes, and has ALWAYS been there. It is there, because it is Universal. And as Joseph Campbell has pointed out, there is a POWER in Myth. I would say, that it is probably the greatest Power we can currently understand ... or seek to understand. Because this is what DRIVES us, whether we are the "religious type" or not. As scientist, as philosopher, as artist or politician, people are still inspired by, and drawn to, the subjects and message of MYTH.
If you must bash, and wish to make a case for the `Jesus Myth' being hogwash, at least please just say that it's all CRAP. Use the word, FICTION, rather than Myth. Because by choosing the word Myth, you have elevated the story one step closer to the LEGEND which it will one day ~ RIGHTLY ~ become.
Some folks study the Labors of Hercules, and yes, they are LEGEND. Plenty of the Greek MYTHS are likewise, LEGEND, because we often recognize in them the Universal themes and Ideals (EIDOS/Eidolon/Ideals/Idealism) ... which are so important to our society and culture.
Personally, I am for the John Lennon approach to religion. Organized religion, as most enlightened folks know, is pretty much responsible for the majority of evil on this planet. And this Heaven bug that has bitten the Bible-thumpers ... ah well, when they find out who their `Jesus' really is, and catch up with a lot of the rest of the planet, then YES!!! Much of the evil will stop.
No more wars, and quite a bit less greed, torture, unnecessary suffering. etc.
But myth is not a bad thing; it is just the opposite. Once we toss out the legends, fables and morality plays, all we might hope to learn from is ... science fiction and fantasy. Our technology threatens to destroy us, as the kids on the schoolyard keep playing "mine is bigger" with their nukes and Tesla coils. Meanwhile our planet is visited by dozens of Intelligent species from beyond the Solar System, and NONE can or will intervene to save us from ourselves. If we must go down in flames, all because, "Jesus said so," then fine ... let the Fundies face that karma in the next world, and next manvantara. Theirs will be a steep, steep penalty, and yeah, sure enough, they might get to TRULY be ~ SHEEP ~ again, if they don't watch it.
The esoteric teaching I'm familiar with is that Jesus, like any of the Yogis you can meet on the street in India today, was quite able to suspend his bodily activity ... to such a degree that, having withdrawn his consciousness into the subtler vehicles, he was able to survive the ordeal of the cross. The ignorance of the modern Christian prevents his understanding why this was so important. He has been carefully taught to disregard the doctrine of rebirth, therefore he has no grasp on how rare it is for a being such as the Christ to be able to descend into human incarnation. He has no clue of what difficulty was involved in the TRUE Sacrifice of the Soul we know as Jesus, formerly Joshua, Son of Nun, who inherited the Mosaic lineage after Aaron, and also Jeshua from the time of Ezra. This Soul made a tremendous sacrifice to incarnate when, and where, and as he did. The overshadowing of this Soul by the Christ, for which Jesus spent a LIFETIME preparing (now THAT, folks, is a sacrifice) ... amounts to what we would consider a full incarnation. The 2nd Aspect of Godhead, did very much take direct, outer expression on our planet, just as the 3rd had done earlier, via the incarnation of Shakyamuni Buddha. This, at any rate, is one esoteric understanding of events. Further, in just a few years, we shall see the Reappearance of this same Individual (the `Christ,' under whatever guise or name a person/religion may know Him), and the 1st Aspect of Deity ~ WILL ~ be further Revealed.
Thus far, I know of no one at Interfaith.org who has such a `take' on things, because ~ here and there you will find folks who are open to talk about the Zodiac, and Heavenly/Cosmic cycles ... or you may find a Theosophist or Anthroposophist who likes to discuss Steiner or Max Heindel ... but the very notion of one Soul overshadowing another (both being advanced Initiates) just seems too foreign to most. This, even though we can find plenty of explanation, detail and clarification in pretty much any set of sacred scriptures and teachings.
Imagine how foolish some will feel once it finally dawns that ... their `Bible' has been updated, re-presented in modern terms and contemporary language, PLAIN ENGLISH, as well as dozens of other translations ... readily available now, in various *stages* or presentations (for various temperaments of students, and for different stages of the spiritual Path at which we may find ourselves) ~ for well over a century.
Did Jesus survive the cross? Yes, or so says the esoteric record. He survived, and he became an Initiate of higher degree. That degree is called the Renunciation ... or Crucifixion, though the latter terminology is misleading. The tradition is that He taught for another 50 years in the subtle body. At this point, the physical was no longer needed, and because of outer events, it was no longer appropriate to use such, for most purposes. Besides, the Arhat can materialize a mayavirupa any time he needs one. There is no need for a permanent physical vehicle at certain stages of the Path.
Is that difficult to comprehend? Only, I would say, when our `orientation' has been turned upside down, when our view of consciousness and spirituality is epiphenomenal at best, and when we have fundamentally misunderstood the relationship between the SOUL, the true Man, and the periodical vehicles [fourfold personality] which he inhabits. Materialism, like atheism, is a curse, and deadlier even than superstition. So the fate of the materialist, after death, is not a pretty one ... but a nice, long rest between lives is usually enough to give a good, fresh start, a true tabula rasa.
Did Jesus need one of these, after the Renunciation (Crucifixion ordeal)? Not hardly. He, like all other Arhats, has not known ONE moment of what we call unconsciousness ... in over 2000 years, since that attainment. Pardon me, but, I think it takes BALLS to contemplate what that must be like, much less to set your feet upon the Path which leads to such. I remain confident that Jesus made such a choice ~ for your sake and for mine ~ and I'm QUITE sure that it does make a difference, no matter *what* you believe.
Namaskar,
~Taijasi/andrew
