When did knowledge exist?

wil said:
dinkel has been cultivated for 5,000 years...is there a new variety?

See, something else I didn't have knowledge of... with the answer to every question more are created.


Unless of course you are a small child...

Dad, why are there rainbows?

It is G!ds promise to never again perform mass genocide on 99.99% of his creations.

Cool! Look squirrel!
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That was the writer's way to explain the rainbow. Probably it had never happen before. For the Flood to happen for 40 days and 40 nights of torrential rain. Then, the rainbow appeared in the sky and from then on, every time the rain happened; well almost every time. Could the Flood have been only a parable to explain a lesson in Physics?
 
Shibolet said:
That was the writer's way to explain the rainbow. Probably it had never happen before. For the Flood to happen for 40 days and 40 nights of torrential rain. Then, the rainbow appeared in the sky and from then on, every time the rain happened; well almost every time. Could the Flood have been only a parable to explain a lesson in Physics?
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The rainbow is the soul.
 
the writers way? I thought you rejected redaction and believed G!d told moses all this and he wrote it?

I sat next to some very learned people at a dinner once who were explaining to others how when G!d parted the waters and made the seas below and the sky above...the waters were held in an ice shield that surrounded the earth...preventing damaging rays to get to us... and hence the ability to live hundreds of years without deterioration from the sun... and then when he commanded the flood, he melted the waters above and it rained for the first time....hence the first rainbow...

I had a hard time keeping my mouth shut...and an even harder time keeping my food down.
 
wil said:
the writers way? I thought you rejected redaction and believed G!d told moses all this and he wrote it?

I sat next to some very learned people at a dinner once who were explaining to others how when G!d parted the waters and made the seas below and the sky above...the waters were held in an ice shield that surrounded the earth...preventing damaging rays to get to us... and hence the ability to live hundreds of years without deterioration from the sun... and then when he commanded the flood, he melted the waters above and it rained for the first time....hence the first rainbow...

I had a hard time keeping my mouth shut...and an even harder time keeping my food down.
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Every thing is possible as HaShem is concerned, but I think He had a more natural way to provide the waters upon earth by dislodging comets from around ice-solid planets to strike the earth and flood it with all the waters we have today on earth.
 
Knowledge in my view is a set of blocks, capable for construction throughout many pods of distribution - pretty much like, how about a pineapple in place of Newton's Tree of Tensions, effectively shifting laws by both polarized and evolved measures.
 
To the OP, when did knowledge exist? Probably the first time a single celled creature bumped into another and realized there was another living creature next to him/her/it. If we are confining knowledge only to humans, I think that would be an indication of bias that would immediately falsify any findings.

Then too, what exactly is meant by "knowledge?" If we are considering rational thought in humans, I would say it long predates any and all religious texts, back at least 200K years to the tending of fire, and probably even before that. If we are considering the explosion of rational thought in humans brought on by the agricultural revolution, then it would be dated approx. 10K years ago.
 
Devils' Advocate said:
Well Wil, in defense of the learned speakers you had the misfortune to sit next to, it turns out that one of the very best protections from cosmic rays is - wait for it - water! Not that they weren't cookoo as Cocoa Puffs. Just saying.
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that was the problem....MDs, PHDs, successful business folk... oh so confusing...

But I am currently stuck with another conundrum (possibly up to late and not enough sleep) the whole tree falling in the forest thing...

without humans thinking would knowledge exist? Is knowledge something on its own... or do we have to acquire it to make it so?
 
wil said:
I am currently stuck with another conundrum (possibly up to late and not enough sleep) the whole tree falling in the forest thing...

without humans thinking would knowledge exist? Is knowledge something on its own... or do we have to acquire it to make it so?
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The question comes back to what is meant by the term "knowledge?" Is this a species centric definition? Are we discussing knowledge simply confined to humans and human experience? If so:


I see a lot of misconception throughout this thread...much as trying to define "truth," "knowledge" seems to have implied meanings that are all across the map depending who you ask, and everyone assumes everyone else understands without question.


To me, knowledge isn't knowledge until it is learned, practiced and understood...intimately.


For example, how do you build a fire without matches or lighters? A lot of people would go on about how they "know" about using flint and steel or a bow and drill, blah blah blah...as if they "know" something. Yet ask if they have actually done so, *and* can do so now without hesitation or problem, and almost to a person they will say, "no." That is not knowledge. Knowledge is the conversion of learning into action or behavior. In other words, show me that you know. If you can't show me, you don't really know.


I can learn the basic principles behind nuclear reactions in a book...that doesn't mean I "know" how to build or operate a nuclear reactor.

I can say I know that tomato plants need sun, water and soil to grow, but until I can actually grow a garden I don't truthfully "know" anything about plants, let alone tomatoes.

I can say the earth is 6 billion years old, but unless I was there at the beginning I don't really "know" exactly how old the earth is.



I know, huh!


The last part about knowledge being something on its own suggests knowledge can be handed, like a tool, to a new owner...G!d handing the tablets to Moses on the mountain so to speak. I don't think it works like that. Knowledge in my way of thinking isn't something one just walks into like stale air in a cave, knowledge is earned by hard work and due diligence. The karate teacher doesn't just hand the knowledge of karate to the student; the karate teacher facilitates the learning and understanding of the student until that student is finally intimately familiar with the discipline, at which time the student can truthfully say he "knows" karate.
 
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Knowledge defined is similar to what Juan is saying:

1. facts, information, and skills acquired by a person through experience or education; the theoretical or practical understanding of a subject.
2. awareness or familiarity gained by experience of a fact or situation.

Knowledge, thus does require experience and/or education to be considered thus. This is what I would probably call 'practical' knowledge' as opposed to a general knowledge where one knows some information about something but little more than that. Like understanding the concept of building a fire without a modern fire starter of some kind.

Obviously from these descriptions we are talking about human knowledge. I don't know Wil, if your question held a wider interest beyond humans or not.

As to the other part of your question, Wil, knowledge is not something on its own. There is nowhere that knowledge is stored except within living creatures. Now that is as opposed to information, for which we humans have developed quite a knack for storing!
 
wil said:
But I am currently stuck with another conundrum (possibly up to late and not enough sleep) the whole tree falling in the forest thing...
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Well this one I can put your mind at rest. There is no sound if a tree falls in the forest and no-one is there to hear it. Why? Because the primary definition of sound is that it is heard:

Sound:
the sensation produced by stimulation of the organs of hearing by vibrations transmitted through the air or other medium.
 
IMHO - Knowledge began with understanding.

I consider knowledge as the intimate understanding of subject matter and wisdom as possessing copious amounts of knowledge.
 
Devils' Advocate said:
Now that is interesting as I personally do not believe that the amount of knowledge one has bears no relation to how much wisdom they have. I know people who are very wise who never finished high school. And I know Mensa members who have little to no wisdom at all!
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Bull's eye! I've made exactly the same observation.
 
DA - I never suggested that 'schooling' is where all knowledge in acquired nor did I suggest wisdom is dependent upon intelligence. If you understood my post that way, I chose the wrong wording. Wil summarized it quite well. Whoever he was summarizing :)
 
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