chakraman
God save us from religion
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speako englo gringo?
Questions?
- Thread starter RusticMusic
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speako englo gringo?
China Cat Sunflower
Nimrod
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I like this. If everything is sacred, though, everything is mundane because nothing is more sacred than anything else. Toilet water and mud puddle water are still equally water.
Chris
path_of_one
Embracing the Mystery
The whole idea is the sacred is the mundane, and the mundane the sacred. If we approach everything as if it were holy and sacred, then we have respect, care, and mindfulness for everything.
Yes, toilet water included.
A teacher of mine once held up an empty plastic water bottle and said, "Can you imagine what landfills and consumption would be like if everyone realized this is sacred and has spirit?"
Food for thought.
Bhaktajan II
Hare Krishna Yogi
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It is anything that is absolutely "NOT MUNDANE".
That which leads to transcendence.
There are mundane levels of this maxim
and
There are sublime levels of this maxim
Each commands its own concomitant degree of reverence.
ie: A certified plumber's codified TextsBooks are revered amongst those that give credence to a proper sanitary system --enmass.
Whereas others place less emphasis on such concerns.
Saltmeister
The Dangerous Dinner
Bhaktajan II
Hare Krishna Yogi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by path_of_one
Yes, toilet water included.
What a horrifying thought.
Suddenly, the BoyWonder ran into the scene and exclaimed, "Holy Shhhit, Batman!"
:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
Sorry. What was the question?
RusticMusic
Itsoktobelost
Such wonderful responses. Thank you all for taking a moment to answer.
Sam Albion
akaFrancisKing:ViveLeRoi!
do I feel it is OK to question my religion?
-yes, I do. In fact, my interpretation of my religion demands that I never simply accept anything. To do so is an error. Everything must be tested, redefined, reinterpreted in light of facts, evidences, and experience.
What makes something scripture?
- that it exists, and is written.
What makes something 'holy'?
- the mind.
-yes, I do. In fact, my interpretation of my religion demands that I never simply accept anything. To do so is an error. Everything must be tested, redefined, reinterpreted in light of facts, evidences, and experience.
What makes something scripture?
- that it exists, and is written.
What makes something 'holy'?
- the mind.
Saltmeister
The Dangerous Dinner
Every written text on the meaning of life and human existence is scripture. When I read what you have posted, I am reading scripture.
bananabrain
awkward squadnik
this describes almost exactly the message of the talmudic episode of the oven of akhnai that i'm always going on about.
the Torah itself tells us to not wait for the Big Beard In The Sky to decide things - we need to take responsibility for our own decisions.
b'shalom
bananabrain
Ben Masada
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The answer to all your questions above is one and the same: "To the Law and the Testimony; if one does not speak according to this method, it is because there is no light in him or her." (Isa. 8:20) That's the test and there is no other.
Ben
P
Persona
Guest
Yes, it is actually imperative that we question everything.
God is light & truth & will withstand any questioning.
Although I realize the bible has been to hell & back & has been so warped & twisted by political & power (or $) hungry people... I do think it's beautiful to have a common collection of biblical canon that so many from different faiths relate to.
That which we depend on for hope &/or peace... & by considering different perspective (either by science or sarcasm) limits our hope/peace.
Holy may be considered that with holes - missing some aspects of truth in order to maintain hope... or like a black hole - that is like a massive desire that consumes everything in it's way. Or holy could be considered "Wholy" - complete - Whole. I don't know which definition it is... probably a combination of all.
radarmark
Quaker-in-the-Making
So "Scripture" (if so many from different faiths relate to it) is fluid? OT, NT, Quran, Gita, Daodejing, Gathas, Pali Canon, Gaiwiio are all Scripture?
Nick the Pilot
Well-Known Member
Persona,
You said,
"Yes, it is actually imperative that we question everything."
--> Good for you!
"Although I realize the bible has been to hell & back & has been so warped & twisted..."
--> Yes, there are two sides to this. The Bible has brought a lot of moral strength to a lot of people, especially in times of emotional pain. It has also caused a lot of trouble. Hopefully, everyone on both sides will always be able to see things from the other person's point of view.
You said,
"Yes, it is actually imperative that we question everything."
--> Good for you!
"Although I realize the bible has been to hell & back & has been so warped & twisted..."
--> Yes, there are two sides to this. The Bible has brought a lot of moral strength to a lot of people, especially in times of emotional pain. It has also caused a lot of trouble. Hopefully, everyone on both sides will always be able to see things from the other person's point of view.
P
Persona
Guest
Scriptures mean sacred writings of a religion, but personally, I think the meaning of scripture includes anything that someone resonates to... that inspires them in some way.
P
Persona
Guest
Thanks, Nick. Believe me, I'm very grateful to you, after my experiences today - being surrounded by people who don't believe in questioning anything & shame & pity those who do, like I do. So, I really appreciate your positivity in this regard. Hug or high-5 to you!
I agree that there are two sides (or more) to this. There's a tendency to conclude with labels of all good or all bad, when often it's a mix of both. I love ideas from many religions - Christianity being most familiar. I especially appreciate the goal of loving others as one loves oneself. However, I read that the majority of mental illnesses (depression, anxiety etc.) are rooted in misunderstandings of Judaic & Christian doctrines. In my experience, religion has inspired hope, high standards & a sense of community, yet also excessive fear, shame & extortion.
Nick the Pilot
Well-Known Member
"Hug or high-5 to you!"
"...the majority of mental illnesses (depression, anxiety etc.) are rooted in misunderstandings of Judaic & Christian doctrines."
--> I do divorce counseling, so the twin topics of depression and anxiety are especially important to me. How is it that they are mainly rooted in misunderstandings of Judaic & Christian doctrines?
"...the majority of mental illnesses (depression, anxiety etc.) are rooted in misunderstandings of Judaic & Christian doctrines."
--> I do divorce counseling, so the twin topics of depression and anxiety are especially important to me. How is it that they are mainly rooted in misunderstandings of Judaic & Christian doctrines?
P
Persona
Guest
"Hug or high-5 to you!"
"...the majority of mental illnesses (depression, anxiety etc.) are rooted in misunderstandings of Judaic & Christian doctrines."
--> I do divorce counseling, so the twin topics of depression and anxiety are especially important to me. How is it that they are mainly rooted in misunderstandings of Judaic & Christian doctrines?
Wow... a bow! Thanks, Nick. I bow back to you.
Namaste.
I read about religious causes of mental illness in a book, "Glimpses Beyond Death's Door." (by Topp) and I don't know which study they found, but they even had a percentage of up to 85%. I believe it was referring to those in the USA. I'm unsure about their findings, so I'll just tell you my perspective.
Thoughts are the root cause of mental illness (besides brain injuries etc.).
Scriptures have been warped & twisted by those in power (ie Constatine), to keep people submissive.
Consider the definition of sin: an immoral act considered to be a transgression against divine law.
If people with bad intent have defined divine law... then what is taught to be sin is likely misleading.
As a councelor, you know that the essence of working through problems is through thoughts. How we think affects how we feel, which affects how we behave. So the root of both religious beliefs & psychology ("study of the soul") is thought. "As he thinketh in his heart, so is he." Proverbs 23:7
Consider typical thinking distortions:
1. Filtering: filtering out positive aspects of a situation while magnifying negative
2. Polarized thinking: black- or white (when often it is a mix)
3. Overgeneralization - something happens once, but general conclusions are based on that one happening
4. Jumping to conclusions - concluding with out knowing or considering all of the facts
5. Catastrophizing - magnifying or minimizing, expecting disaster
6. Personalization - taking things personally, comparing
7. Control Fallacies - Viewing ourselves victim to external controls, or internalizing others pain (to feel control)
8. Fallacy of Fairness - Constantly looking for fairness & being disappointed (because life often isn't fair)
9. Blaming - holding others responsible for our pain, or blaming ourselves for others pain
10. Shoulds - making rules about everything - & inducing shame when rules aren't kept
11. Emotional Reasoning - thinking feelings are facts (when they aren't)
12. Fallacy of Change - Thinking we can change others & then we'll be happy (both aren't true)
13. Global Labeling - Generalizing
14. Always being right - Continually on trial to prove our opinions & actions are correct
15. Heaven's Reward Fallacy - Belief that if you suffer enough, the pay-off will be worth it after-life
Now, consider some of the preachers you've heard, or doctrinal interpretations you've read. Personally, I see every one of these thinking distortions taught & believed in churches and religious doctrines. Fear and shame are especially taught and contribute to anxiety and depression.
P
Persona
Guest
I Just realized I was "generalizing."
So, to clarify: not all religious doctrines teach these thinking distortions, but many do.
So, to clarify: not all religious doctrines teach these thinking distortions, but many do.
Nick the Pilot
Well-Known Member
Persona,
You said,
"Scriptures have been warped & twisted by those in power (ie Constatine), to keep people submissive."
--> I totally agree. It is the natural tendency of any religion to become warped and twisted as the centuries go by.
"I read about religious causes of mental illness in a book, "Glimpses Beyond Death's Door." (by Topp) and I don't know which study they found, but they even had a percentage of up to 85%. I believe it was referring to those in the USA. I'm unsure about their findings, so I'll just tell you my perspective... Thoughts are the root cause of mental illness (besides brain injuries etc.)."
--> Mental illness is usually caused by people being deprived in childhood of human warmth and kindness. They then spend the rest of their lives trying to deal with this (and failing miserably). They then try to use religion to solve this problem, fail at this too, and turn religion into something terrible along the way. I do not see religion as typically being an initial cause of mental illness, this is only a symptom, and the cause is much deeper. (But these people then try to force religion on others in a manipulative way, succeed, thereby causing religion to become an initial cause of mental illness.)
"…the root of both religious beliefs & psychology ("study of the soul") is thought."
--> The root of being deprived in childhood of human warmth and kindness is also thought.
"Emotional Reasoning - thinking feelings are facts (when they aren't)"
--> I would tweak this a little. Every event causes a person to have an emotional response, and every emotion is caused by an event. (But most people refuse to see this basic relationship, and how it leads to unhappiness and ultimately mental illness.)
"Fallacy of Change - Thinking we can change others & then we'll be happy (both aren't true)"
--> Actually, we can change others which will lead to us being happier, but most people do not know how to do it, go about it wrong, and cause more trouble as a result.
"Always being right - Continually on trial to prove our opinions & actions are correct"
--> This is one of the biggest causes of divorce (and many people do not realize it). It also infers at other, more common deeper-causes of divorce that most people are not aware of at all.
"Heaven's Reward Fallacy - Belief that if you suffer enough, the pay-off will be worth it after-life"
--> But there is another side to this point of view. Can you see the other point of view?
"…I see every one of these thinking distortions taught & believed in churches and religious doctrines."
--> Once again, there is the other point of view. What would you say that point of view is?
You said,
"Scriptures have been warped & twisted by those in power (ie Constatine), to keep people submissive."
--> I totally agree. It is the natural tendency of any religion to become warped and twisted as the centuries go by.
"I read about religious causes of mental illness in a book, "Glimpses Beyond Death's Door." (by Topp) and I don't know which study they found, but they even had a percentage of up to 85%. I believe it was referring to those in the USA. I'm unsure about their findings, so I'll just tell you my perspective... Thoughts are the root cause of mental illness (besides brain injuries etc.)."
--> Mental illness is usually caused by people being deprived in childhood of human warmth and kindness. They then spend the rest of their lives trying to deal with this (and failing miserably). They then try to use religion to solve this problem, fail at this too, and turn religion into something terrible along the way. I do not see religion as typically being an initial cause of mental illness, this is only a symptom, and the cause is much deeper. (But these people then try to force religion on others in a manipulative way, succeed, thereby causing religion to become an initial cause of mental illness.)
"…the root of both religious beliefs & psychology ("study of the soul") is thought."
--> The root of being deprived in childhood of human warmth and kindness is also thought.
"Emotional Reasoning - thinking feelings are facts (when they aren't)"
--> I would tweak this a little. Every event causes a person to have an emotional response, and every emotion is caused by an event. (But most people refuse to see this basic relationship, and how it leads to unhappiness and ultimately mental illness.)
"Fallacy of Change - Thinking we can change others & then we'll be happy (both aren't true)"
--> Actually, we can change others which will lead to us being happier, but most people do not know how to do it, go about it wrong, and cause more trouble as a result.
"Always being right - Continually on trial to prove our opinions & actions are correct"
--> This is one of the biggest causes of divorce (and many people do not realize it). It also infers at other, more common deeper-causes of divorce that most people are not aware of at all.
"Heaven's Reward Fallacy - Belief that if you suffer enough, the pay-off will be worth it after-life"
--> But there is another side to this point of view. Can you see the other point of view?
"…I see every one of these thinking distortions taught & believed in churches and religious doctrines."
--> Once again, there is the other point of view. What would you say that point of view is?