Muslimwoman said:
but how does that fit with "the scattering has led to the firming up and institutionalisation of the old traditions". Surely if Jews had remained in one geographic location, as a nation of people, you would expect the institutionalisation of the old traditions but what I expect is that western culture has watered down how Jews follow such old traditions .. as with any faith's followers.
not at all; what has happened is that faced with the challenge of survival in a mostly hostile environment, the communities rallied around the standards that they brought from the "old country", as it were. it's not a million miles away from what originally happened in some of the south asian communities here in the uk which stuck to the norms that they knew from "back home" in the face of lack of acceptance from the environment they were in. the "watering down" didn't really happen until much later when society became more open.
Tamar said:
I am Jewish and I find that my Judaism and being in the west do not conflict.
gosh, i do, sometimes. it depends what you mean. some of the anti-clericalism of the enlightenment can be difficult, as can much of the public discourse, certain technology trends and working practices. my judaism is perhaps a little stricter than yours, though.
It is important that women have a voice in religion and that there be women rabbis. I have been lucky to have had the wise advise of 2 very knowledgable rabbis in my life who were women.
the thing is, you're kind of begging the question here; it seems to me that the essential questions are:
1. what is/are the function/s of a rabbi and can they be discharged by women?
if the role is that of teacher and scholar, it seems self-evident that women can be amongst the most inspiring and knowledgeable teachers that exist, i might mention, for example, scholars such as aviva zornberg. if the role is that of community leader, equally, this can self-evidently be done by a women. if the role is that of halakhic expert and decisor, this is more in doubt because it hasn't been so clear in the past, but that is not to say that women cannot excel equally in this area. in some areas, female halakhic experts (if not rabbis) are becoming more common, even if they are not paskening (making halakhic decisions). that's in the traditional world, of course, there have been women on conservative and reform batei din for a long time.
i guess the point i'm making is that there's nothing "magic" about being a rabbi in the way that priests in the rc church are supposed to have special powers of whatever; a rabbi fulfils functions - if a woman can fulfil them, then i don't see why you couldn't call her a rabbi; i'm not hung up on the title. i know there was recently a furore over a lady in the new york area who was being called a "rabbah" and serving an orthodox community, so the gates have started to open. i'm quite liberal about this, i hope.
2. to what extent is the issue of women rabbis an indicator of religious equality?
this, for me, is at the heart of the issue and it is starkly revealed by the following:
When we relegate half the population to the back seat or the balcony and do not let them be full members of a religion the religion suffers in my opinion.
what you're doing here is confusing synagogue services with religion. i personally do not consider public religious ceremonies to be the sole standard by which participation in judaism should be judged. personally, i have come to the conclusion that, as group prayer is halakhically incumbent only on men, it should be considered to be a male equivalent of, say, a women's group, which i know are common and i don't see that there's anything wrong with that. i've also got no problem with women's tefillah groups, but i think that the emphasis on group prayer ceremonies is incorrect. judaism is primarily about personal behaviours and living the values of Torah and, indeed, it is possible to display these and be a "full member of a religion" without ever setting foot in a shul. LEARNING and PERSONAL PRACTICE is far more important than who opens the ark or reads from the Torah, or who sits next to whom and when. women are the primary care-givers, educators and custodians of our children and the primary determinants of the jewish values and behaviours in the home environment. put it this way, if the men spend all their time at shul and in shiurim, but the women aren't ensuring that the family had a comprehensive and properly supported jewish environment, jewish content and continuity will be unsustainable.
my personal opinion is that the obsession with who does what in the public sphere is a mistake and causes neglect of far more important issues in every part of judaism, whether you're talking about orthodox, reform, or whatever. shul just isn't as important as people make it out to be and our collective and divisive over-emphasis on the public domain has really harmed us as a community. if reform worried more about what people did outside shul, it would be in a far better position. by the same token, if the various traditional denominations worried more about darkei shalom, social action and personal ethics, they would also be in a far better position!
b'shalom
bananabrain
