Enlightenment

wil

wil

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In a discussion the other day it was said that everyone is at different levels in consciousness, differing levels of their spritual journey.

This made me think, the concept of 'spiritual contracts' indicates that we are here in 3d with a task, or for our soul to learn some lessons, or grow.

So if that premise is within your realm of acceptance, then wouldn't it indicate that we are actually all on the same level of consciousness?

For further consideration, the Dali Lama said "You know you are enlightened when everyone you see you see as enlightened" (to which our preacher jokes, "So I go to the mall to see how far I need to go!")

and as synchronicity has it, today's note from Chabad.org seems to expand on the theme....
All or No One

Adar I 4, 5771 · February 8, 2011
By Tzvi Freeman

No man can claim to have reached the ultimate truth
as long as there is another who has not.

No one is redeemed
until we are all redeemed.

Ultimate truth is an unlimited light
-and if it is unlimited,

how could it shine in one person's realm
and not in another's?
Click to expand...
There is something about that, that just rises me up, creates a level of bliss, just reading it. To me it explains what the Dali Lama was referring to. Not that it is me, but all of us.

It also plays into a concept that I have considered in the past. We all have heard the story/parable/metaphor "The straw that broke the camel's back" ... wieghed down with soooo much that just one more thing sets us off.

What if the obverse were true?

That the entire world is waiting for me to reach enlightenment?
 
I've come to find the term rather unhelpful. It's only words but it's all we've got...

The word is the finger, the moon is...

I recall reading that "enlightenment" was the term used by Westerners who were trying to make Eastern traditions sound appealing to Westerners. It resonated with the Enlightenment, except that this was for the individual.

Now the term has lost much of its "value", a little like "zen". There must be thousands of books with that word in the title to help sell the book.

Tell someone you're a Buddhist and you're likely to immediately get asked "so are you enlightened then?"

s.
 
hey wil! bingo :) you've touched a grain of light by thinking of enlightenment as heaven on earth.

indeed think about it: did we fall from heaven? are we trying to get back? if so then at the end of our efforts is indeed enlightenment, that light cast upon us that might let us trough the sword of fire guarding the entrance into eden.
 
namaste wil,

interesting thread.

i'm rather with Snoopy on this one and his explanation of how the term came to be used is correct. the Buddha never used a term like Enlightenment...indeed, it would be easy enough to argue that the entomology of the terms used would be fairly opposite each other. Nibbana is a blowing out, and extinguishing not a lighting up or shining light.

the Buddha used the terms transliterated into English as Awakening and Liberation and they are different things from each other and from Enlightenment (though i've never really had a good explanation of what actually was...mostly i get some sort of garbled Buddhist/Hindu ideas glommed together).

and yes.. the entire universe has unfolded as it has and the way it has to lead you (and all sentient beings) to Awaken and attain Liberation... so get to it already! ;)

metta,

~v
 
Now the interesting part is I haven't referenced Bhudda...and the one who I did reference used the word Enlighetened... I wonder how the Dali Lama meant it....or is he westernized?
 
did you all notice that enlightment is a feature of eastern thinking?
christianity and mosaicism do not talk about enlightment. these religions are more preoccupied with death as the final answer. eastern religions however tend to encourage understanding the depths during life.
 
Hi Wil —

I can't comment on Vajradhara or Snoopy's comments, as I don't know enough about the East, but I do concur that I think the idea of 'Enlightenment' is a 'scientific' approach that has come to dominate the Western psyche over the last few centuries.

I rather think 'Enlightenment' is trying to categorise something which is prior to categorisation ... but I think you're on the right track. The whole world is waiting for us to join in.

The poet says it better:

'To see a world in a grain of sand,
And a heaven in a wild flower,
Hold infinity in the palm of your hand,
And eternity in an hour.'
william Blake

The trouble is, the Western psyche looks for the mindset that sees the world in a grain of sand, and that's not where it is ... Blake's position is not reasoned or intellectualised, its experiential, it's lived, what he sees before his mind tells him what it is he's looking at ...

"Amen I say to you, unless you be converted, and become as little children, you shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven." Matthew 18:3

Children have a non-discriminatory relationship with the world, the newborn does not conceive of 'I-and-thou' as two things, but as one thing. Babies learn they are not part of the furniture or their surroundings.

They play and they are 'in' the game, the game is as real as the world, they live in the moment.

The very act of seeking enlightenment is, in a sense, distancing oneself from what is, enlightenment reduces experience to a category, rather than simply living in the experience, or being in the moment.

When you're in the moment, there is no sense of time, no sense of self, no 'I-and-thou', we can see this easily in children who are 'lost' in play, and perhaps in athletes who talk of being 'in the zone' ...

It's in the Beatitudes, and in the parables ... because we look for it, we never find it. If we stopped looking, we'd find it ... of course, all this is very easy to say, because there we go categorising and organising again ...

God bless,

Thomas
 
wil said:
I've got no clue, I've been pursuing younger women, faster horses, older whiskey, give me weed, whites and wine, where the hell did I dine?
Click to expand...
Who cares? I'm with you, bro, it's one hellava ride, ain't it!

God bless,

Thomas
 
Spooky, isn't it?

iBrian asked me (with a wink), whether I was turning panentheist ... I gotta tell ya, I might just be moving that way, but don't tell anyone else around here, they'll never let me live it down!

Not that I've deserted my bank of the Tiber or anything, but this book, The Master and his Emissary .... sheesh ... and I'm only half way through.

I'm loathe to say too much, because I'm still at 'a little knowledge' stage, and as the author points out, certain studies in neuroscience have all but stopped because it got so popular that the 'real' science has been drowned out by a lot of 'pop' generalisations that are not only wrong, but point in entirely the wrong direction ...

But once I've finished, I'll maybe try and condense a few gems and throw them in for everyone, as some of them are so fundamental to discussions here ... especially those where you and I have got into hand-bagging each other ... sometimes it's not a case of right/wrong, but viewpoint ...

God bless,

Thomas
 
tychomorpheus said:
did you all notice that enlightment is a feature of eastern thinking?
christianity and mosaicism do not talk about enlightment. these religions are more preoccupied with death as the final answer. eastern religions however tend to encourage understanding the depths during life.
Click to expand...

i disagree, the promise of Christianity is eternal life with God the Father, no idea what misaicism is though.
 
NiceCupOfTea said:
i disagree, the promise of Christianity is eternal life with God the Father, no idea what misaicism is though.
Click to expand...

After death, that is. According to the dogmatic Christian view all the DEAD will wake up at the second coming. Eternal life is after death in the Kingdom of Heaven. And so on.

Mosaicism is ' "Mosaic religion", an obsolete synonym for Judaism '. Same issue here no enlightenment during the lifetime.
 
Quote:

No man can claim to have reached the ultimate truth
as long as there is another who has not.

No one is redeemed
until we are all redeemed.
---

Wil, here is a metaphor:

The wheel spins out of earthly control. The spices flavour the air and the whole world witnesses the evolution.. The next step is now. Want it or not, beleive it if you can: it's here. However close or far this seems to you you should live by your promises. The ones you made to God in your days before the request was granted. Do you remember? To have ever asked for anything, no, of course not ... You have also asked to forget it all ...


But i am here to remind you. To pull your arm out of the jar of earthly wonrders and to shout in your face its time. Come back.


And by remembering you i will save myself.
 
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