biblical phophecies

[ciel_perdy]

OK, I'll tone down my rhetoric a bit. But do you not think that Leviticus 20:13 is ridiculous? Or do you think homosexual acts should be punished with the death penalty? (Leviticus 20:13 is what I compared Revelations to, i.e. that we shouldn't take everything the bible says as literal interpretation). Most Christians that I know say they don't take Revelations as literal events that are going to happen, but instead that everything is metaphor. But if you want to think, per Revelations, that 10-headed beasts are going to come down to earth along with men on white and red horses and and destroy everything in their path then you are certainly entitled to that belief. It just sounds ridiculous to me.

The interpretation as metaphor is what leads to the self-fulfilling prophecy. You say the sign of the beast is being fulfilled because nightclubs in Europe put "payment microchips" in people. I stated they could just put the chip in the left hand and, no problem. Definitely not the sign of the beast if it's in the left hand not the right, correct?

Others say the droughts, floods, tsunamis, etc are a sign of the impending rapture; and reference the prophecies in Revelations as their source for this. That's why I think it would have been better to leave Revelations out of the modern bible (along with Deuteronomy). And instead focus on Jesus' teachings of peace, love, etc. Not the destruction and fear of Revelations.

How does reading and believing Revelations make anyone a better person here on this planet, in this present moment? How does it encourage anyone to help out their fellow mankind in need? I actually can't see anything positive that comes from reading Revelations; please correct me if I'm wrong.

I guess I'm more of a believer in the "red letter" parts of the bible. I personally put more weight on the things that Jesus actually said rather than John's predictions (scholars disagree on who "John" actually was) of horrific future events on earth. Why do you think Revelations is the Word of God? Just because it made it into the bible? Are the other apocrypha God's Word also? Is anything in the bible not God's Word?

As you have obviously studied Revelations, and seem to have a loving heart and compassion for your fellow man; I would be interested in your opinion on my questions raised in my previous post. I'm not trying to attack anyone's views here; but I do have some strong opinions about the prophecies of Revelations

I also put more weight on Jesus' teachings than on any other part of the bible, however, Revelation is to me, is very important, after all it's is a revelation to the servants of Jesus Christ. Did I say anywhere that I believe the Revelation to be the Word of God? I think you could probably answer your question regarding the mark, if you took the time to set aside your bias. Really the answer is very simple. I have noticed a couple of times you saying I have a 'loving heart and compassion for my fellow man'. You probably know the saying 'flattery will get you no-where'. What's your motivation is saying these things to me? I still don't see anything to indicate that discussion about prophecy with you will lead to anything but extended debate that will pretty much go no-where. Sorry.

 

[IowaGuy]

What's your motivation in saying these things to me? I still don't see anything to indicate that discussion about prophecy with you will lead to anything but extended debate that will pretty much go no-where.

No worries. I didn't mean anything malicious towards you personally, sorry if it came across that way.

Peace,
IowaGuy

 

[A Cup Of Tea]

ciel_perdy, I think that's too bad. Why are we here if not to share our beliefs and answer questions about them. I didn't read anything malicious in IGs posts only that he don't understand why you believe what you believe. And I think that is an important part in accepting other views.
So I don't understand why you wouldn't want to share.

 

[ciel_perdy]

ciel_perdy, I think that's too bad. Why are we here if not to share our beliefs and answer questions about them. I didn't read anything malicious in IGs posts only that he don't understand why you believe what you believe. And I think that is an important part in accepting other views.
So I don't understand why you wouldn't want to share.

I would hope we are hear to look for truth, not just opinion vs opinion (which is the basic feeling I got from IG's posts). With regards to maliciousness. I guess the confusion is that it is actually IG usuing the word 'malicious' in relation to me sharing that I associated his calling me 'loving and compassionate' with flattery. He has done it twice now (call me loving and compassionate), and I am pretty sure that both times (especially this time), it has been used for the purpose of manipulating me.

If you read his posts to me, you will see that he doe not start with an open attitude, in fact he has already decided that I believe the whole bible to be the word of God, and that I believe literal red and white horses and seven headed beasts are going to pop up in the earth. He has a prejudice against the book of Revelation, and lumps me in with them, without taking a moment to lay aside his prejudice and ask me sincerely for my thoughts. It's not very inspiring to answer someone who does this.

Perhaps if IG wants to try asking the question again, this time from an open attitude, i.e. not pidgeon holing me, then I might be more inclinded to answer.

I am more than happy to share about what I believe, but if I sense that someone is not sincere in their questions, then I am also happy to just stay quiet.

 

[radarmark]

Ceil Perdy, I agree with ACOT. IG, like me has a "left-brain" scientific predisposition. I do not think he meant anything more than "loving and compassionate" (which I, too see in your posts).

Pax et amore omnia vincut

 

[A Cup Of Tea]

ciel_perdy, we simply disagree on IGs attitude, I always find him honest and curious.

 

[ciel_perdy]

ciel_perdy, we simply disagree on IGs attitude, I always find him honest and curious.

I guess in the end we will have to agree to disagree. I'm not saying that it was malicious flattery, or flattery in the 1st degree or anything like that, but I do think he was attempting to say something NICE about me, in order to make me feel more open to answering his questions. Perhaps IG could either confirm or deny that?

If he says ''no that was not the case, I merely wanted to say you were a loving and compassionate man for the sake of it'', then fine, I will accept it. Then perhaps we could move on. I certainly do not want some unresolved tension with IG on this forum, so it would be nice if it could be resolved. IG has only commented that he didn't mean anyting 'malicious'. I agree. What I am talking about above is not, in my mind, malicious. However, like I said in my post, I do believe he was using flattery to get me respond to his questions. Not malicious, but not something I appreciate either.

I can appreciate that I have two people telling me that they do not think IG was using flattery to soften me up and try to get me to answer his posts. However, both of you are just saying you 'don't think'. Therefore, I would appreciate hearing what IG 'thinks'. Was he using those words in a way as to encourage me to respond to his questions, or was he just saying them because of the sheer heck of it?

I should think this would help to resolve the tension over this issue. I look forward to IG thoughts.

Peace, ciel

 

[IowaGuy]

Therefore, I would appreciate hearing what IG 'thinks'. Was he using those words in a way as to encourage me to respond to his questions, or was he just saying them because of the sheer heck of it?

I should think this would help to resolve the tension over this issue. I look forward to IG thoughts.

Hi Ciel - I do appreciate your comments on this forum, you have a unique perspective (living in Africa, celibate, anti-greed, being the change you want to see in the world, etc) that adds depth to the discussions. But I don't say that to be manipulative. I have said similar "flattery" about many others including Thomas, BobX, Wil, Radar, etc.; without any manipulation intended. I just want others to know their unique perspective is appreciated, as I think many people contribute on this forum in an effort to educate and help others to learn, even though by doing so they are opening up their beliefs to "attack" by others.

I also realize that emotions can run high as some of these threads deal with values that are very dear to us; in fact we may structure our life around a value or belief that someone else is openly challenging, sometimes very agressively. I was probably too agressive in my earlier rhetoric of religious prophecies, which I know from previous discussions with my sister (devout Southern Baptist) can be a very sensitive issue. But that's just my style, I don't beat around the bush or sugar-coat anything. Sorry if anything came across as a personal attack towards you, that was never my intention.

So, no hard feelings, no unresolved tension. Let's leave it behind us and move on. I'll make sure not to say anything nice about you in the future

Peace,
IowaGuy

 

[ciel_perdy]

Hi Ciel - I do appreciate your comments on this forum, you have a unique perspective (living in Africa, celibate, anti-greed, being the change you want to see in the world, etc) that adds depth to the discussions. But I don't say that to be manipulative. I have said similar "flattery" about many others including Thomas, BobX, Wil, Radar, etc.; without any manipulation intended. I just want others to know their unique perspective is appreciated, as I think many people contribute on this forum in an effort to educate and help others to learn, even though by doing so they are opening up their beliefs to "attack" by others.

I also realize that emotions can run high as some of these threads deal with values that are very dear to us; in fact we may structure our life around a value or belief that someone else is openly challenging, sometimes very agressively. I was probably too agressive in my earlier rhetoric of religious prophecies, which I know from previous discussions with my sister (devout Southern Baptist) can be a very sensitive issue. But that's just my style, I don't beat around the bush or sugar-coat anything. Sorry if anything came across as a personal attack towards you, that was never my intention.

So, no hard feelings, no unresolved tension. Let's leave it behind us and move on. I'll make sure not to say anything nice about you in the future

Peace,
IowaGuy

HI IG,

Thanks for writing. I can appreciate that you were not using flattery, but were, as you say, wanting to show appreciation for others comments. I am sorry for thinking that your appreciation was flattery.

No, nothing came across as a personal attack towards me. The only thing I disliked was calling me 'compassionate and loving', (for the reasons I explained). I don't mind people questioning my belief in prophecy at all. I have answered many people and surely will continue to do so. I can appreciate that you don't 'beat around the bush'. However, perhaps you can appreciate that there may be a better way to raise your disagreements or opinions about issues that you too are obviously sensitive about?

Your last line about making sure not to say something nice about me again, made me laugh. Yeah, well, I don't mind so much ''good post'', or ''nice point'', kind of nicities, but perhaps yeah, you can leave out stuff like''you're loving and compassionate''.

Thanks for being willing to work out any tension.

Now, if you feel so inclined, you can ask the questions of me that you would like to know, and I will do my best to answer them.

Paix, Ciel