Was JESUS the only heavenly being to incarnate into the human community from heaven?

[radarmark]

Re: Was JESUS the only heavenly being to incarnate into the human community from heav

CHOMP CHOMP..... burp (ego feed)!

 

[Etu Malku]

Re: Was JESUS the only heavenly being to incarnate into the human community from heav

How can you say Osho is nihilistic?

A purpose is an end to a curtain means. Whatsoever purpose we formulate, we have added ourselves because life is its own end and means. Life is to be lived, and lived joyously, never missing a single moment.

This is nihilism in your mind?

Nothingness is nihilistic to me, there is more to our existence than this mere physical one. Being fully awake

never missing a single moment

has a ring of Gurdjieff to it, I like it, difficult to implement though. If I wanted to indulge in the Carnal Earthly Pleasures of only this physical world, believing there is nothing more than this, I would have become a Satanist.

 

[seattlegal]

Re: Was JESUS the only heavenly being to incarnate into the human community from heav

CHOMP CHOMP..... burp (ego feed)!

Need your expertise for this set of posts back from page 8:

What is matter and anti-matter?

They are naught but the positive and negative aspect of matter - they are opposites, a duality.

All dualities balance each other out, -1+1=0 ... nirvana means nothingness, you are to arrive at the absolute zero of reality. What is the nature of that? It is truth, but what is that truth?

Go into it and see.

Matter and antimatter are not exact mirror images of each other, after the Big Bang, energy was transformed into matter and antimatter in equal proportions. They are not opposites of one another, nor polar extremes, they are two different things that when they collide they destroy one another and create energy.

Um, I would speculate that they were not created in equal proportions--matter was clearly in excess over anti-matter. If they were in equal proportions, our universe would likely be just a soup of radiation from all the matter and anti-matter cancelling each other out. I could be wrong, though.

Radarmark! We need your expert advice here!

 

[Lunitik]

Re: Was JESUS the only heavenly being to incarnate into the human community from heav

Nothingness is nihilistic to me, there is more to our existence than this mere physical one. Being fully awake

Awakening means experience of nothingness.

has a ring of Gurdjieff to it, I like it, difficult to implement though. If I wanted to indulge in the Carnal Earthly Pleasures of only this physical world, believing there is nothing more than this, I would have become a Satanist.

I have not said carnal earthly pleasures, although sexuality should also be enjoyed certainly, what is wrong in it? There is a whole different dimension though, simply looking at a flower there is a great joy for instance. Recognizing the flower is sharing its being with you as its fragrance, there is great joy.

 

[Lunitik]

Re: Was JESUS the only heavenly being to incarnate into the human community from heav

It is not difficult to implement at all, I have provided a method to allow you to experience this very moment. Now simply sustain it... it is not possible to miss anything if you can maintain that state.

It is interesting you bring up Gurdjief though, he has said that without this attainment, no afterlife is possible at all. He says that you have to give birth to your own soul in that state, you are not given it, only the seed is provided. It should create an urgency for you if you want something to be after this life...

I personally say this is a device only, a lie for exactly the purpose I have stated: creating an urgency.

 

[Etu Malku]

Re: Was JESUS the only heavenly being to incarnate into the human community from heav

Awakening means experience of nothingness.



I have not said carnal earthly pleasures, although sexuality should also be enjoyed certainly, what is wrong in it? There is a whole different dimension though, simply looking at a flower there is a great joy for instance. Recognizing the flower is sharing its being with you as its fragrance, there is great joy.

I see a flower and it screams of Fibonacci sequence . . .

** how come every thread you're on becomes derailed into your teaching us to be enlightened?

 

[Lunitik]

Re: Was JESUS the only heavenly being to incarnate into the human community from heav

I see a flower and it screams of Fibonacci sequence . . .

** how come every thread you're on becomes derailed into your teaching us to be enlightened?

Because it is all I am interested in here.

It is actually only 2-3 threads, so in reality it would be quite easy for you to avoid - there must be some sort of curiosity for you.

I will probably not be responding in another thread once these have died, it is proving a waste of time.

 

[Etu Malku]

Re: Was JESUS the only heavenly being to incarnate into the human community from heav

Because it is all I am interested in here.

It is actually only 2-3 threads, so in reality it would be quite easy for you to avoid - there must be some sort of curiosity for you.

You do know you have just defined yourself as a Troll

 

[Lunitik]

Re: Was JESUS the only heavenly being to incarnate into the human community from heav

You do know you have just defined yourself as a Troll

No, you have.

 

[radarmark]

Re: Was JESUS the only heavenly being to incarnate into the human community from heav

Um, I would speculate that they were not created in equal proportions--matter was clearly in excess over anti-matter. If they were in equal proportions, our universe would likely be just a soup of radiation from all the matter and anti-matter cancelling each other out. I could be wrong, though.

Radarmark! We need your expert advice here!

SG has it right. A perfect balance would have menat that during the first half million years or so it took for atoms to form (hence, the earliest point we can "see" -- the cosmic microwave radiation) all protons would have met anti-protons, neutrons anti-neutrons, electrons positrons.

All that would have been let is a bunch of gamma rays (energy without mass zipping around at the speed of light). That surely is not the case.
The balance was off by a few ppm (I would have to look this up, it gets complex... in the first 50,000 years according to the Standard Theory, remember there is no proof of this, there was instead of energy production, mass production) for the background to be as Lumpy" as it is (again in terms of ppm, parts per million).

The problem is there are several ways to model the first half million years. Again, the most popular is that matter-anti-matter creation was as as it is in big machines, showing a slight tendency to over-create matter. But this was in the era where relativity gets "wierd". When do the forces "freeze out"? That is when does gravity become a separate force? Ditto for the strong force. Ditto for electroweak.

It's all a matter of modelling and conjecture at this point. You can get the present universe with a slight matter-to-antimatter imbalance. You can also get there with an imbalance in the creation of matter and anti-matter.

But without an imblance somewhere between 50,000 at 500,000 years (or so), there ain't no universe to be had.

 

[IowaGuy]

Re: Was JESUS the only heavenly being to incarnate into the human community from heav

I like Einstein's simple explanation of matter/anti-matter:

"For every one billion particles of antimatter there were one billion and one particles of matter. And when the mutual annihilation was complete, one billionth remained - and that's our present universe."
- Albert Einstein (1879-1955)

 

[radarmark]

Re: Was JESUS the only heavenly being to incarnate into the human community from heav

Probably a little higher than that (CMB was not discovered during his lifetime, let alone mapped so we see as much as 1/10,000 differences in anisotropy). That is, however, a matter of clear debate in the details.

I tend to think that if the cosmic microwave background is 1/10,000, that means 100 ppm is a better number (only differs from the master by 5 orders of magnitude... not bad). Even then, those differences could be caused by free monopoles or strings (there are some crazy explanations out there).

The point is to realize this is "fringe physics" and subject to change... like the change from "Einstin's Cosmological Constant" to "Vacuum Energy".

 

[Quahom1]

Re: Was JESUS the only heavenly being to incarnate into the human community from heav

I like Einstein's simple explanation of matter/anti-matter:

"For every one billion particles of antimatter there were one billion and one particles of matter. And when the mutual annihilation was complete, one billionth remained - and that's our present universe."
- Albert Einstein (1879-1955)

But damaged beyond recognition...

 

[luecy7]

Re: Was JESUS the only heavenly being to incarnate into the human community from heav

I have said nothing of the sort

No reason to waste time meditating then.

I work inwardly, not outwardly...

So you work alone, not with others.

I am concerned with you noticing what you are thinking, what actions you take, and whether they are voluntary or not - whether you are a master or a slave at this time.

You said you work inwardly, and then you tell me that you have concern with what I notice? I am outwardly to you.

How is not wasting energy something selfish? Explain.

Does a person lift a finger for someone else while they go meditate? Does a person go meditate to enlighten someone else?

The light is not mine, but in a way you have described enlightenment.

I was thinking more of a self induced illusion.

When you take, you feel perhaps that you have gotten the better of someone, or maybe guilty. When you give, it is because you have already taken before, you give a small part to ensure you do not feel guilt.

These are your beliefs and feelings.

No, both of these are not the way of love, they fundamentally about possession - they are material. There must be an environment of sharing, whosoever has will simply give to whosoever needs without caring about who that person is, and that person will simply receive joyfully. Neither can possess though, at most a thing can be used, it can provide a function.

I think many like yourself prefer to give to a stranger who does not know them so that they can keep their illusions of themselves in tact without confrontation.

I certainly have said nothing of this dream...

I thought it was you. Sorry if I got it wrong.

I have said blind trust is a disgusting thing, to accept something simply because it is said cannot accomplish a thing. Yet, you also cannot throw away whatsoever you feel is wrong because even you cannot be trusted.

Faith and forgiveness are often a matter of trust despite the evidence that says a person is unfaithful and untrustworthy.

When you encounter the Real, now there is a knowing, a deep love has happened and now you can do nothing but trust. You have utterly surrendered to Now, it has rewarded you, you have a support for future trust. Now, gradually, you are utterly naive. Whatsoever happens, it has needed to happen, there is no risk so where is the trust really? It is simply a deep complete totality of love for the whole.

Having faith and trusting someone will always be with uncertainty, or quite possibly even with evidence that the other person will be unfaithful or untrustworthy.

This is quite strange, I might ramble about repression but I will simply drop the device because I do not see a useful way it can be advanced.

Since you are dropping the car and the computer, there is always the running shoes and pencil to return to.

So you are saying it doesn't show a trust?

If it is a baby step for you, then congratulations on taking a step towards trusting someone you don't know.

I do not own any of my words... what an absurd statement.

Whose words are they?

 

[Lunitik]

Re: Was JESUS the only heavenly being to incarnate into the human community from heav

No reason to waste time meditating then.

There is no reason for anything ever, existence itself has no reason at all... what is your point exactly?

You can certainly convince yourself what you do has a purpose, but it is delusional utterly. Every faith says this creation will some day terminate, so even if you say you are working to improve the world, eventually it will be no more so it is pointless. Whatsoever we accomplish will be destroyed some day, whosoever we meet in this life, both us and them will eventually be dead so what is the purpose of it?

Meditation creates a space where you can know that which is permanent, that which will persist even after this universe ceases. Not only that, but as in the example of Bodhisatva's, the enlightened mans energy can effect all around him - you can set creation in a certain direction merely by willing it enough, this is why Christians are taught to pray... it is the same phenomenon only the normal person has very little energy. You meditate to procure energy, you work to still the mind so that less energy is wasted in it. Eventually you are surrounded by energy, it is utterly overflowing and reaches to everyone around you. Now there is a great responsibility, now if you think anything negative, you simply watch and chaos will ensure. Then, if you think something positive, beauty ensures... THAT is why I meditate.

For me, everything you claim as your good actions is naught but superficial busy work. You think you are accomplishing something, but it is nothing in the larger scheme of things. It is so petty and small it really is a waste of time, utterly.

 

[luecy7]

Re: Was JESUS the only heavenly being to incarnate into the human community from heav

There is no reason for anything ever, existence itself has no reason at all... what is your point exactly?

You can certainly convince yourself what you do has a purpose, but it is delusional utterly. Every faith says this creation will some day terminate, so even if you say you are working to improve the world, eventually it will be no more so it is pointless. Whatsoever we accomplish will be destroyed some day, whosoever we meet in this life, both us and them will eventually be dead so what is the purpose of it?

Meditation creates a space where you can know that which is permanent, that which will persist even after this universe ceases. Not only that, but as in the example of Bodhisatva's, the enlightened mans energy can effect all around him - you can set creation in a certain direction merely by willing it enough, this is why Christians are taught to pray... it is the same phenomenon only the normal person has very little energy. You meditate to procure energy, you work to still the mind so that less energy is wasted in it. Eventually you are surrounded by energy, it is utterly overflowing and reaches to everyone around you. Now there is a great responsibility, now if you think anything negative, you simply watch and chaos will ensure. Then, if you think something positive, beauty ensures... THAT is why I meditate.

For me, everything you claim as your good actions is naught but superficial busy work. You think you are accomplishing something, but it is nothing in the larger scheme of things. It is so petty and small it really is a waste of time, utterly.

Once again: I am known by my actions. You have been vocal on the importance of what I think, or don't think, and do, or don't do, for quite some time. If you can't see that in your own words there, then it seems there is something that you are failing to see.

 

[IowaGuy]

Re: Was JESUS the only heavenly being to incarnate into the human community from heav

There is no reason for anything ever, existence itself has no reason at all... eventually it will be no more so it is pointless... Whatsoever we accomplish will be destroyed some day...

Meditation creates a space where you can know that which is permanent

Lunitik, using your nihilist logic, isn't meditation also pointless?

Do you think knowing the permanent will affect your personal afterlife?

If not, who cares if you can know that which is permanent, if you and everything else will eventually be destroyed anyway? In a nihilistic scenario, why is meditating and "knowing the permanent" a better activity than just sitting on the couch and watching television? Just knowing the permanent doesn't make you permanent, just as knowing a celebrity doesn't make me rich & famous.

 

[Lunitik]

Re: Was JESUS the only heavenly being to incarnate into the human community from heav

Once again: I am known by my actions. You have been vocal on the importance of what I think, or don't think, and do, or don't do, for quite some time. If you can't see that in your own words there, then it seems there is something that you are failing to see.

Once again: what ultimate purpose are your actions serving?

 

[Lunitik]

Re: Was JESUS the only heavenly being to incarnate into the human community from heav

Lunitik, using your nihilist logic, isn't meditation also pointless?

Do you think knowing the permanent will affect your personal afterlife?

If not, who cares if you can know that which is permanent, if you and everything else will eventually be destroyed anyway? In a nihilistic scenario, why is meditating and "knowing the permanent" a better activity than just sitting on the couch and watching television? Just knowing the permanent doesn't make you permanent, just as knowing a celebrity doesn't make me rich & famous.

I have said existence itself is pointless, I exist, so everything I do is ultimately pointless.

I do not cling to anything like an afterlife, I am more concerned with enjoying this life. I see no benefit in existing for all eternity, for what? It is just as much pointless as this place.

Knowing the permanent is irrelevant, creating a better life for those around you using the energy you have built up through meditation is something worthy to do with your life. I can think of nothing more worthwhile, perhaps you can give me a few examples?

You have missed though, ultimately, because in merging with the permanent, you are the permanent. This isn't a whole truth of course, language cannot portray such a thing. In that merging, you cease to be, as a separate being with your own will you are no more. At the same time, until this body dies, such ecstasy, such pure rich love, you cannot even fathom it until you realize it, until it happens to you.

You have declared truth nihilistic. It is not nihilistic at all, if I could portray the beauty of it I would, if I could portray anything of it I would love to. Even if I manage to come close though, words cannot allow you to feel it. Only your own surrendering to the Whole can show you that. Nihilism is the conclusions of a man ready to be awakened but that has refused to surrender. They have described the condition before the soul is truly ready to awaken, and all enlightened beings have experienced that disenchantment. They have simply never truly accepted it, never truly sought in a healthy direction... they are basically suicidal with a purpose that distracts them.

 

[Lunitik]

Re: Was JESUS the only heavenly being to incarnate into the human community from heav

luecy: Do you not realize that your ego is attached to your service now?

You probably think it is a humble deed, but it is no such thing. You say yourself that you are identified by them, are they you? If you stopped all service this moment, will you know who you are now?

I am not saying don't help people, don't volunteer, what I am saying is that you should look into the motivations behind it. Based on our conversations, you certainly seem to believe that your service makes you a better person, why? Both the people you are assisting and yourself will ultimately die, then what is left of your service? Can you see the truth in this?

I am not sure your ego will allow it to seep in, but it is worth a try. For me, it would be better if you devote yourself to a husband, become reacquainted with your femininity, it is not natural for such an ego to persist in a woman and it will allow you to truly melt into love. Our discussions show a subtle competition on your part, for what? What are you trying to accomplish by conversing with me, by offering to meet me?

You simply want to show that your way is better - my sole purpose is to share what I have experienced, to allow others to experience the same, why is this a threat to you?