ecumenicalism

[fadded blue jeans]

Introduction


Every Christian should agree that the splintering of the church into warring factions is not the Lord's idea. How can it be stopped? How can it be reversed?
A popular answer today is ``Deeds, not creeds! Doctrines divide!'' Be nice if it worked. Unfortunately, as the sainted Dr. Siegbert Becker of Wisconsin Lutheran Seminary remarked,

What happens in the ecumenical movement is that they emphasize everything they agree on, which is almost nothing, and de-emphasize everything they disagree on, which is almost everything, until the sum total of their beliefs can be stated in two sentences: ``Love thy neighbor and be kind to animals.''​

God's answer is that the source of division is not creeds, but false creeds -- false doctrine. The source of false doctrine is Bible misinterpretation. To aid the church toward a true ecumenical movement, I offer the Ten Commandments of Bible Interpretation. You may look at that ambitious title and think: ``This clown thinks he's found Mount Sinai!'' But read them and see for yourself whether they are not only Biblical, but so obviously true that even an atheist would probably agree that this is the way to read the Bible if you want to know what the Bible -- rather than a human theologian -- has to say. Read them and see for your self whether these methods of interpretation are not the methods the Bible itself, and Jesus Himself, use.

read rest


Ten Commandments of Bible Interpretation

 

[mojobadshah]

11:00 Sunday is the most racially segregated hour in the United States. There's one of you're problems right there. People don't go to Church because they believe in God, they go there because it's in their heritage, and that's what makes it dangerous, because people are no longer concerned with what's right, they're concerned about what will benefit their respective cultural heritages. Secondly, even if they do uphold the God delusion the problem is not just Bible interpretation, but translation. A lot of the Old Testament has been translated so that it conforms to the New Testament. For example the Hebrew words for "the skies" and "the grave" were translated to "Heaven" and "Hell" to conform to Christian ideology. I propose that if you want to galvanize the Christian community, and the rest of the religious sects for that matter, revolutionize the religious institutions entirely by taking religion out of religion, by presenting these communities with only the literature, and leaving individuals themselves with the Free Will to choose what they want to believe and what they don't want to believe when it comes to the actual existence of the phenomenon conveyed in the literature. The thing about Christianity and the rest of the Abrahamic and even Zoroastrian religious institutions is that in they all profess blind faith. Their philosophies, there rules, and there laws, seek to keep people in the dark, so that they can continue to function as religious institutions. In this sense we have our own Taliban right here in the United States, and until the people realize that all religious institutions seek to suppress certain undeniable truths including ones that come from without their exclusionary beliefs systems the United States will be no closer to the light, and nor will countries like Afghanistan. Defend the troops!

 

[wil]

Introduction


Every Christian should agree that the splintering of the church into warring factions is not the Lord's idea.
Ten Commandments of Bible Interpretation

So you don't like the schism yet you are Lutheran? Interesting, in order to avoid the schism I'd have thought you'd have to be Catholic....

And your first commandment is fun....lets get into that scripture and punishment for homosexuality....and not take it out of context...and I love it that your preacher has justification for his bottle of vodka....that was hilarious, thanx!!

11:00 Sunday is the most racially segregated hour in the United States. There's one of you're problems right there. People don't go to Church because they believe in God, they go there because it's in their heritage, and that's what makes it dangerous, because people are no longer concerned with what's right, they're concerned about what will benefit their respective cultural heritages.

Well you'd be 100% wrong at my church...about 50/50 black white, 98% of us not raised in our denomination...no cultural heritage, no racial divide, folks with ancestry from every continent but antarctica....

 

[fadded blue jeans]

So you don't like the schism yet you are Lutheran? Interesting, in order to avoid the schism I'd have thought you'd have to be Catholic....

And your first commandment is fun....lets get into that scripture and punishment for homosexuality....and not take it out of context...and I love it that your preacher has justification for his bottle of vodka....that was hilarious, thanx!!

Well you'd be 100% wrong at my church...about 50/50 black white, 98% of us not raised in our denomination...no cultural heritage, no racial divide, folks with ancestry from every continent but antarctica....

it appears we can just for get about ecuminism

 

[fadded blue jeans]

it appears we can just for get about ecuminism

welcome to the hate fest at inter faith forums

 

[wil]

welcome to the hate fest at inter faith forums

Your goal is to get kicked out isn't it?

Do you ever have any intention to actually discuss anything?

You made a point about homosexuality....again, which chapter and verse, and what punishment should be utilized for this sin??

Let us discuss it according to your 1st commandment....in context, but without the vodka eh?

 

[fadded blue jeans]

Your goal is to get kicked out isn't it?

Do you ever have any intention to actually discuss anything?

You made a point about homosexuality....again, which chapter and verse, and what punishment should be utilized for this sin??

Let us discuss it according to your 1st commandment....in context, but without the vodka eh?

not with you acting like some whack job i dont . youi settle down and then perhaps we can discuss it

 

[wil]

not with you acting like some whack job i dont . youi settle down and then perhaps we can discuss it

Do you have a date in mind?

 

[mojobadshah]

Well you'd be 100% wrong at my church...about 50/50 black white, 98% of us not raised in our denomination...no cultural heritage, no racial divide, folks with ancestry from every continent but antarctica....

Well I guess you're Church is just special then isn't it. Doesn't change the fact that "Church" in the greater sense of the word implies closed off to the real world.

 

[IowaGuy]

Well I guess you're Church is just special then isn't it. Doesn't change the fact that "Church" in the greater sense of the word implies closed off to the real world.

Mojo - could you elaborate on "closed off to the real world"?

Do you mean that non-members of that church aren't welcome there? Or do you mean that the church closes itself off to the "real problems" in the world.

My experience has been that, in general, churches welcome folks of all stripes to sit in on their services. I'm agnostic, but enjoy occasionally sitting in on a random church service; I have attended servies of several different denominations/faiths in different areas of this country. It can be an interesting cultural experience, and cheaper than most other entertainment (depending on your generosity when the offering plate comes by).

But I do think many churches are too focused on the institution itself and not enough on the problems of the local community or the greater society. And I agree with your earlier comments that individuals should interpret the holy scripture themselves. Catechisms are a good example of a "filtered" version of holy scripture given to the members of a religious institution.

I often wonder, "why churches at all?" After all, Jesus didn't need a church to teach out of?

 

[wil]

Well I guess you're Church is just special then isn't it. Doesn't change the fact that "Church" in the greater sense of the word implies closed off to the real world.

I'm not denying that 11 am Sunday is the most segregated time of the week....

Birds of a feather flock together. Ever heard that? Wonder why it is that people gravitate to their comfort zone?

Many gather by familial relationships, or nationality relationships, and yes, even by color, or gender, or age...that doesn't make anything racist.

The diverse racial, ethnic, national, and religious make up of my church is due to the fact that we all gather in the thought...we all have a similar understanding to beliefs and enjoy discussing and being in the presence of people of like mind...something we don't find regularly in our work world.

 

[mojobadshah]

But I do think many churches are too focused on the institution itself and not enough on the problems of the local community or the greater society.[

That is basically what I mean, but to elaborate: Churches are on a large part set in there ways. Think of Galileo for example and how long it took the Church to come to terms with the Heliocentric theory. And if I was to say that the concept of "angels" as we know "angels" originated with the Aryan people and therefore the Aryan people have the right to be justly compensated for the third party usage of this concept in commerce... well, I have already been faced with an uphill battle

The diverse racial, ethnic, national, and religious make up of my church is due to the fact that we all gather in the thought...we all have a similar understanding to beliefs and enjoy discussing and being in the presence of people of like mind...something we don't find regularly in our work world.

Yes, but not only do they gather in thought, they gather in fear of the other, they defend delusion over the truth, and at that point might really just becomes strength in numbers and NOT what is right, just as legislation in the United States is determined by the highest bidder.

Just out of curiosity why would someone promote a concept like "blind faith"?

 

[Dream]

To understand a doctrine, collect all the passages that speak about it. Just read through the Bible and write them down. Then you can organize them in the proper order. If you don't have the time, sell your TV. If you don't have the ability, then spend a few bucks on the book that has already done most of the work for you.

Silly. For you gladly bear with fools, being wise yourselves! 20 For you bear it if a man makes slaves of you, or preys upon you, or takes advantage of you, or puts on airs, or strikes you in the face.

"Spend a few bucks" and you're good to go. Just "collect all the passages and organize them in the proper order"! This Bible passage applies to whoever wrote that: 1 John 1:8 "If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us." The reason it applies is that they are claiming so much doctrinal perfection. Their goal is to enslave you through arguments.

I Cor 7:23 "You were bought with a price; do not become slaves of men." That includes Martin Luthor.

 

[IowaGuy]

And if I was to say that the concept of "angels" as we know "angels" originated with the Aryan people and therefore the Aryan people have the right to be justly compensated for the third party usage of this concept in commerce

Are you talking about some sort of copyright and financial compensation? I think the statute of limitations has probably run out on that

Just out of curiosity why would someone promote a concept like "blind faith"?

I think this is self-evident. No questioning of authority keeps the powerful in power. The shepherd and his sheep...

 

[bob x]

the sum total of their beliefs can be stated in two sentences: ``Love thy neighbor and be kind to animals.''

Those are the good people.

 

[mojobadshah]

Are you talking about some sort of copyright and financial compensation? I think the statute of limitations has probably run out on that

I am talking about financial compensation, but until that day comes I expect the religious institutions to credit the source for the ideas. From what I understand the Catholic schools do bring up Zoroastrianism, but as far as really pointing out the significance of Zoroastrianism is another question. And I'm optimistic that that day will come, even though you're right the statue of limitations has run out according to U.S. Law, because there is already a move among intergovernmental agencies, and also locally in other countries, to grant ethnic groups the right to their respective Traditional Knowledge including ideas that go back millennia. The policy is known as Sui Generis Rights.

Introduction the sum total of their beliefs can be stated in two sentences: ``Love thy neighbor and be kind to animals.''

Yeah, I hear the "Do unto others as you would have others do unto you" bit everywhere, I agree with it, and that's one of the reason I'm so adamant about this Sui Generis Rights policy. I personally don't have a problem paying other societies for the use of their cultural heritage in commerce. When you think about it you're not really limiting creativity, you're just limiting the size of you're wallet in return for offering some sense of justice to the cultures who feel their heritage is being exploited or even misrepresented.

I think this is self-evident. No questioning of authority keeps the powerful in power. The shepherd and his sheep...

Yes, that much is obvious, but I was actually expecting a defending argument, because if no one is going to defend blind faith, then why are so many people so adamant about the existence of phenomenon that are just not provable like "Hell" as most people know "Hell" for example, but when it comes to just compensation for the third party usage of distinct ideas to the culture who originated those distinct ideas even it was thousands of years ago they have such a big problem believing that that is the right thing to do.

 

[radarmark]

This is a little over the edge. While it is virtually undeniable that Judaism (and therefore other Abrahamic religions) "are indebted to" Zoroastrianism. It is virtually unprovable that the way G!d is used in the Avesta is any closer in meaning to G!d as used today then, say Jehovah is to Ha-Shem or physics in Plato is to Super String Theory.

The same can be said for any other term in the Avesta. Now, if you want to discuss the relationships and evolutions of these terms, that makes sense. If you want respect for the Zoroastrian like the Muslims ask for scientific respect or Hindus for logical or mathematical respect... then I think a thread entitled "ecumenicalism" is a good place to start.

Pax et amore omnia vincunt, radarmark

 

[wil]

I am talking about financial compensation, but until that day comes I expect the religious institutions to credit the source for the ideas.

Is it absolutely wrong to find this hilarious?

Exactly who do you think has any right to final compensation over something 3000 years old?

Do you also suggest we all go back to live where our ancestors came from and leave all newly (within 3,000 years) conquered lands?

Are you working on a novel? Or a sitcom?

 

[fadded blue jeans]

Your goal is to get kicked out isn't it?

Do you ever have any intention to actually discuss anything?

You made a point about homosexuality....again, which chapter and verse, and what punishment should be utilized for this sin??

Let us discuss it according to your 1st commandment....in context, but without the vodka eh?

I made a mistake about joining here. Yet i dont plan to get kicked out.

My discussion over homosexuality is this either a person should accept that homosexuality is sin because Romans chapter 1 says it is .
if the person does not .The discussion On homosexuality is over..

no matter what they say further about it .. They are just wasting there time..
This does not mean i hate that person its just means i dont want any further discussion with that person on that subject .. untill they have a change of mind,
im deaf to their arguments ..

 

[Dream]

im deaf to their arguments ..

You are bought and sold through arguments. Too confident about arguments. There is a verse "If any one among you thinks that he is wise in this age, let him become a fool that he may become wise" and "We destroy arguments and every proud obstacle to the knowledge of God."