Lucifer the tragic hero.

[donnann]

EM and BX are correct, regardless of what you have heard Sevetus. Just brouse the wiki page --- his biggest impact was on Gardner and Sanders, the movers and ahkers behind the Wiccan movement. If you look at all the groups, abbeys, etc that Crowley founded none, repeat none is named or used Satanism.

Panta Rhei! (Everything Flows!)

Look at the holy bible rev 12 A great sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet and a crown of twelve stars on her head.

 

[Etu Malku]

Look at the holy bible rev 12 A great sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet and a crown of twelve stars on her head.

. . . and?

 

[donnann]

. . . and?

Ever hear of the black madonna?

 

[Etu Malku]

Ever hear of the black madonna?

Virgin Mary portrayed as an African? Sure . . . but what hell does that have to do anything?

Look my friend, please make sense and get to the point, please post entire commentary, just not "Ever hear of the black madonna?" this is a discussion, not a trivia game.

 

[donnann]

Virgin Mary portrayed as an African? Sure . . . but what hell does that have to do anything?

Look my friend, please make sense and get to the point, please post entire commentary, just not "Ever hear of the black madonna?" this is a discussion, not a trivia game.

No it refers to mary magdalene.

 

[radarmark]

Donnann, I knew your reference and was (am) mystified. As EM says this is not a trivia game. What in the Hades does MM or Rev12 have to do with what I wrote? I was pointing out how to verify that Crowley was no Satanist or Luciferian. (if I have that wrong, for H!s sake [get it?] let me know, EM).

Panta Rhei! (Everything Flows!)

 

[donnann]

Donnann, I knew your reference and was (am) mystified. As EM says this is not a trivia game. What in the Hades does MM or Rev12 have to do with what I wrote? I was pointing out how to verify that Crowley was no Satanist or Luciferian. (if I have that wrong, for H!s sake [get it?] let me know, EM).

Panta Rhei! (Everything Flows!)

You mentioned wicca. A lot of wiccans believe in the female aspect of the divine. I dont believe in labeling all of them satanic in nature. If that isnt what you meant I apolojize.

 

[Etu Malku]

Donnann, I knew your reference and was (am) mystified. As EM says this is not a trivia game. What in the Hades does MM or Rev12 have to do with what I wrote? I was pointing out how to verify that Crowley was no Satanist or Luciferian. (if I have that wrong, for H!s sake [get it?] let me know, EM).

Panta Rhei! (Everything Flows!)

Crowley was definitely NOT a Luciferian or Satanist.

 

[radarmark]

Donnann, wiccans are not satanists or luciferians, nor are they all women (I have gone to both services... just add nothing in my opinion for me).

EM, hpefully we can educate some prople on this. A common enough mistake on this side of the pond. In England, the understand the difference a little better.

Panta Rhei! (Everything Flows!)

 

[donnann]

Donnann, wiccans are not satanists or luciferians, nor are they all women (I have gone to both services... just add nothing in my opinion for me).

EM, hpefully we can educate some prople on this. A common enough mistake on this side of the pond. In England, the understand the difference a little better.

Panta Rhei! (Everything Flows!)

Yes in american they get a bad wrap.I am not a wiccan but have read about it and its not satanic in nature.

 

[Etu Malku]

Wiccans practice a Nature religion based loosely on older Stregherian practices, which are based on even older Greek cults, such as the Cult of Hecate.

Nothing to do with Satanism.

 

[donnann]

Wiccans practice a Nature religion based loosely on older Stregherian practices, which are based on even older Greek cults, such as the Cult of Hecate.

Nothing to do with Satanism.

I know thats my point.

 

[Servetus]

Of course I know why he identified himself as “the Beast 666.” . . . his Mother would refer to him as the "Beast". Still, nothing to do with Satanism.

Why should that be a matter of course, Etu Malku? If you are educated in the subject, then, provided the discussion doesn’t become adversarial (because I am not interested in getting into a toss with anyone), I shall be pleased to learn from you.

At any rate, if we cannot accept Aleister Crowley as a Satanist, are the now defunct Italian death metal band, Beasts of Satan, possible candidates?

EM and BX are correct, regardless of what you have heard Sevetus.

I know of Crowley primarily through one of his rather sympathetic biographers. If it weren’t enough that Crowley identified with the (or an) antichrist, he is, as I recall, also quoted as having said that, about the time he went off to boarding school, he “simply went over to Satan’s side.” I may need to borrow the book from my public library to revisit the quote.

… his [Crowley’s] contact with Aiwass was his Higher-Self …

Would you say that Aiwass was also Rose Kelly’s higher self? It seems she had some peculiar interactions with the entity. Similarly, was Choronzon also Aleister Crowley’s higher self?

What may I ask is your idea of a Satanic ritual?

You may. I think Blavatsky provides a good, if arguably extreme (because characteristically polemical), example in Isis Unveiled. She writes:

"IN that famous work of Bodin*, on sorcery, a frightful story is told about Catherine of Medicis. The author was a learned publicist, who, during twenty years of his life, collected authentic documents from the archives of nearly every important city of France, to make up a complete work on sorcery, magic, and the power of various "demons." To use an expression of Eliphas Levi, his book offers a most remarkable collection of "bloody and hideous facts" ... Catherine, the pious Christian ... the Queen Catherine, kept in her service an apostate Jacobin priest. Well versed in the "black art," so fully patronized by the Medici family, he had won the gratitude and protection of his pious mistress, by his unparalleled skill in killing people at a distance, by torturing with various incantations their wax simulacra. The process has been described over and over again, and we scarcely need repeat it.

Charles was lying sick of an incurable disease. The queen-mother, had everything to lose in case of his death, resorted to necromancy, consulted the oracle of the "bleeding head." This infernal operation required the decapitation of a child who must be possessed of great beauty and purity. He had been prepared in secret for his first communion, by the chaplain of the palace, who was apprised of the plot, and at midnight of the appointed day, in the chamber of the sick man, and in presence only of Catherine and a few of her confederates, the "devil's mass" was celebrated. Let us give the rest of the story as we find it in one of Levi's works: "At this mass, celebrated before the image of the demon, having under his feet a reversed cross, the sorcerer consecrated two wafers, one black and one white. The white was given to the child, whom they brought clothed as for baptism, and who was murdered upon the very steps of the altar, immediately after his communion. His head, separated from the trunk by a single blow, was placed, all palpitating, upon the great black wafer which covered the bottom of the paten, then placed upon a table where some mysterious lamps were burning. The exorcism then began, and the demon was charged to pronounce an oracle, and reply by the mouth of this head to a secret question that the king dared not speak aloud, and that had been confided to no one. Then a feeble voice, a strange voice, which had nothing of human character about it, made itself audible in this poor little martyr's head." The sorcery availed nothing; the king died, and — Catherine remained the faithful daughter of Rome!"

It may be anecdotal, but I recall having once read -and I don't think it was in the above-linked biography- that Aleister Crowley fancied himself the reincarnation of Eliphas Levi (who is mentioned in Blavatsky's quote), for what it is worth.

 

[Etu Malku]

At any rate, if we cannot accept Aleister Crowley as a Satanist, are the now defunct Italian death metal band, Beasts of Satan, possible candidates?

WTF does a Italian death metal band have to do with Crowley, Thelema, or Satanism? Am I surrounded with insanity?

Would you say that Aiwass was also Rose Kelly’s higher self? It seems she had some peculiar interactions with the entity. Similarly, was Choronzon also Aleister Crowley’s higher self?

This my friend you should answer for yourself, Choronzon has little to do with Crowley or Thelema, this the demon entity of 16th century occultists Edward Kelley and John Dee within the latter's occult system of Enochian magic.

Blavatsky provides a good, if arguably extreme (because characteristically polemical), example in Isis Unveiled.

LOL, Blavatsky and Theosophy is a joke within the occult community, I'm beginning to gather that very few here are well educated in the modern occult community.

 

[Ben Masada]

Geesh doesnt anyone know the archangels name is Lucifel not lucifer?

There is no such thing as lucifel or lucifer. Literally, it belongs in the realm of myths. Metaphorically, it can be used to symbolize powerful men on earth.
Ben

 

[Servetus]

At any rate, if we cannot accept Aleister Crowley as a Satanist, are the now defunct Italian death metal band, Beasts of Satan, possible candidates?

WTF does a Italian death metal band have to do with Crowley, Thelema, or Satanism?

Perhaps we should ask the Italian police that question. I think that they have established a link between some form of Satanism, and an apparently nasty one at that, and a woebegotten band called, funnily enough, Beasts of Satan.

Am I surrounded with insanity?

You are in a square tent. I am not sure it is possible for you to be surrounded.

Would you say that Aiwass was also Rose Kelly’s higher self? It seems she had some peculiar interactions with the entity. Similarly, was Choronzon also Aleister Crowley’s higher self?

This my friend you should answer for yourself, Choronzon has little to do with Crowley or Thelema, this the demon entity of 16th century occultists Edward Kelley and John Dee within the latter's occult system of Enochian magic.

I am glad that we can still be friends. Anyway, I don’t want to ask myself, I want to ask Amergin.

LOL, Blavatsky and Theosophy is a joke within the occult community …

As I pointed out, Blavatsky quoted Eliphas Levi who, according to Aleister Crowley, wrote the definitive chapter on necromancy. Levi, by the way, referred also to the “diabolical Sabbath of necromancers.” If Blavatsky must be dismissed, have you any ideas concerning the type of rites and rituals which might mark such a “diabolical Sabbath” referred to by Levi? If so, they might relate to the topic of this thread.

I'm beginning to gather that very few here are well educated in the modern occult community.

The obvious remedy for that is to send them off to Hogwarts post haste. But seriously, I wouldn’t have read Crowley’s biography if I weren’t interested in the man and his, I won’t call it religion, but “movement.” Furthermore, if I weren’t interested in Amergin’s defense of Satanism, I wouldn’t have posted to this thread. I am willing to be educated, I repeat, provided the process remains civil.

There is no such thing as lucifel or lucifer. Literally, it belongs in the realm of myths. Metaphorically, it can be used to symbolize powerful men on earth.

I am curious. Would you say that there is such a thing as Samael?