Proposed Prayer Study

IowaGuy

IowaGuy

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luecy7 said:
So you think if a person prays in their mind, and does not speak a word of it, then they have programmed someone else with it?
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I believe this is true if you tell that person that you are praying for them.

Actually, I think if you tell them you are praying for them it doesn't really matter if you pray out loud, pray silently, or don't pray at all. They think you are praying for them, and their power of positive thinking acts as a placebo effect to help them in their given situation.
 
Re: human nature - inherently good or evil?

IowaGuy said:
I believe this is true if you tell that person that you are praying for them.

Actually, I think if you tell them you are praying for them it doesn't really matter if you pray out loud, pray silently, or don't pray at all. They think you are praying for them, and their power of positive thinking acts as a placebo effect to help them in their given situation.
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I'm not so sure it is as simple as that. You have heard about/experienced "feeling" someone stare at you even though you can't see them? Similarly, just as focusing your attention on someone by staring at them can have an effect, focusing your attention on someone through prayer may also have that kind of effect.
 
Re: human nature - inherently good or evil?

seattlegal said:
I'm not so sure it is as simple as that. You have heard about/experienced "feeling" someone stare at you even though you can't see them? Similarly, just as focusing your attention on someone by staring at them can have an effect, focusing your attention on someone through prayer may also have that kind of effect.
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As with everything there is an explanation, and this is no different.

the perception originates from a system in the brain that's devoted just to detecting where others are looking.
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. . . Read More

There is no way that praying for someone can directly affect them, as a placebo sure, but this requires that the person know you are praying for them and they must also believe that prayer works, very much the same way Vodoun works. Praying is most effective when applied to one's self as I mentioned, it is a form of trance induction and can be used to neurologically program the brain.
 
Re: human nature - inherently good or evil?

seattlegal said:
I'm not so sure it is as simple as that. You have heard about/experienced "feeling" someone stare at you even though you can't see them? Similarly, just as focusing your attention on someone by staring at them can have an effect, focusing your attention on someone through prayer may also have that kind of effect.
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Let's consider a scenario where 2 different people are sick in the hospital:

SG prays for person #1, but doesn't tell them.

SG doesn't pray for person #2, but tells person #2 she IS praying for them.

Both person #1 and person #2 believe in the power of prayer.

Which person do you think will show positive results from your prayer?
 
Re: human nature - inherently good or evil?

IowaGuy said:
Let's consider a scenario where 2 different people are sick in the hospital:

SG prays for person #1, but doesn't tell them.

SG doesn't pray for person #2, but tells person #2 she IS praying for them.

Both person #1 and person #2 believe in the power of prayer.

Which person do you think will show positive results from your prayer?
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Don't know. Would have to test it out to know.
 
Re: human nature - inherently good or evil?

Here is the study I would propose:

hospital setting, double-blind study, enough people in each group for statistical significance, all people in study believe in the power of prayer

Group A: are told they are being prayed for and actually ARE prayed for

Group B: are told they are being prayed for but are NOT prayed for

Group C: are not told they are being prayed for but ARE prayed for

Group D: are not told and are not prayed for


Iowa Guy's hypothesis: Groups A and B will show the same results, and groups C & D will show the same results. Group A & B's results will be better than group C & D results.

i.e. someone that is NOT being prayed for but told they are will have better results (placebo effect/self-fulfilling prophecy) than someone who is actually being prayed for but doesn't know it. And if people are told they are being prayed for it doesn't matter whether they really are or not. Conversely if people are not told they are being prayed for it doesn't matter if someone is praying for them, since they don't know it it doesn't affect them.

Thoughts?
 
Re: human nature - inherently good or evil?

No way of telling is there?

God bless

Thomas
 
Re: human nature - inherently good or evil?

IowaGuy said:
Here is the study I would propose:

hospital setting, double-blind study, enough people in each group for statistical significance, all people in study believe in the power of prayer

Group A: are told they are being prayed for and actually ARE prayed for

Group B: are told they are being prayed for but are NOT prayed for

Group C: are not told they are being prayed for but ARE prayed for

Group D: are not told and are not prayed for


Iowa Guy's hypothesis: Groups A and B will show the same results, and groups C & D will show the same results. Group A & B's results will be better than group C & D results.

i.e. someone that is NOT being prayed for but told they are will have better results (placebo effect/self-fulfilling prophecy) than someone who is actually being prayed for but doesn't know it. And if people are told they are being prayed for it doesn't matter whether they really are or not. Conversely if people are not told they are being prayed for it doesn't matter if someone is praying for them, since they don't know it it doesn't affect them.

Thoughts?
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Online Paper: Positive Therapeutic Effects of Intercessory Prayer in a Coronary Care Unit Population

Scientific Review
 
Re: human nature - inherently good or evil?

IowaGuy said:
Here is the study I would propose:

hospital setting, double-blind study, enough people in each group for statistical significance, all people in study believe in the power of prayer

Group A: are told they are being prayed for and actually ARE prayed for

Group B: are told they are being prayed for but are NOT prayed for

Group C: are not told they are being prayed for but ARE prayed for

Group D: are not told and are not prayed for


Iowa Guy's hypothesis: Groups A and B will show the same results, and groups C & D will show the same results. Group A & B's results will be better than group C & D results.

i.e. someone that is NOT being prayed for but told they are will have better results (placebo effect/self-fulfilling prophecy) than someone who is actually being prayed for but doesn't know it. And if people are told they are being prayed for it doesn't matter whether they really are or not. Conversely if people are not told they are being prayed for it doesn't matter if someone is praying for them, since they don't know it it doesn't affect them.

Thoughts?
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Ah, so the people you associate with are machines... lab rats. Yipes, I'd hate to be your neighbor. :D

Do you think God is a machine that can't see the spirit of someone's experiments?
 
Re: human nature - inherently good or evil?

IowaGuy said:
Here is the study I would propose:

hospital setting, double-blind study, enough people in each group for statistical significance, all people in study believe in the power of prayer

Group A: are told they are being prayed for and actually ARE prayed for

Group B: are told they are being prayed for but are NOT prayed for

Group C: are not told they are being prayed for but ARE prayed for

Group D: are not told and are not prayed for


Iowa Guy's hypothesis: Groups A and B will show the same results, and groups C & D will show the same results. Group A & B's results will be better than group C & D results.

i.e. someone that is NOT being prayed for but told they are will have better results (placebo effect/self-fulfilling prophecy) than someone who is actually being prayed for but doesn't know it. And if people are told they are being prayed for it doesn't matter whether they really are or not. Conversely if people are not told they are being prayed for it doesn't matter if someone is praying for them, since they don't know it it doesn't affect them.

Thoughts?
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I was thinking about this:

Potted plants, all of the same age and species, planted in color-coded pots, four pots of each color, plus a different color for the control group.

  • Each member of my mother's china painting class (they'd participate) gets to pick a color of pot to work with
  • Groups A, B, and C all go to the china painting class, while group D remains isolated from the rest, with the control group.
  • Group A gets prayed for before and after the china painting class, as well as their "unseen friends" in group D
  • Group B gets to "sit" with their sponsors while they are doing their creative china painting, but doesn't get prayed for
  • Group C doesn't get prayed for, but gets to go along for the ride with the other plants.
I'm not sure what kind of data to record, however. I can measure height of plants, count leaves/stems. I could make a standard scale of how "green" they are. Weighing them prolly wouldn't be a reliable measurement while they are in their pots. Any other suggested measurements I might make, other than having the participants disclose their chosen prayer technique? (They are a diverse group of ladies--Christians, new-age types, etc.)
 
Re: human nature - inherently good or evil?

SG - What's your hypothesis on your proposed potted plant study?
 
Re: human nature - inherently good or evil?

The steps of the scientific method are to:
  • Ask a Question
  • Do Background Research
  • Construct a Hypothesis
  • Test Your Hypothesis by Doing an Experiment
  • Analyze Your Data and Draw a Conclusion
  • Communicate Your Results
So, you're in the "background research" phase? I thought you were proposing a scientific experiment (different pots, praying, etc) to test a hypothesis, my bad.
 
Re: human nature - inherently good or evil?

Thomas said:
No way of telling is there?

God bless

Thomas
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So then, do you pray "just in case"?

If there is no way of telling (in your opinion), what is the difference between prayer and superstition?
 
Re: human nature - inherently good or evil?

IowaGuy said:
The steps of the scientific method are to:
  • Ask a Question
  • Do Background Research
  • Construct a Hypothesis
  • Test Your Hypothesis by Doing an Experiment
  • Analyze Your Data and Draw a Conclusion
  • Communicate Your Results
So, you're in the "background research" phase? I thought you were proposing a scientific experiment (different pots, praying, etc) to test a hypothesis, my bad.
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Question: Does prayer constitute an environmental factor in the development of plants?

Steps:

  • gather data from different environmental factors among plants of the same age and species as described in previous post.
  • compare data from plants within each specific group to form a baseline to account for differences between individuals
  • once individual variances are tracked, compare data from plants of different groups to see if there different trends within each group as compared to others that might be attributable to environmental differences
  • if any phenomenal trends are found that can be attributed to environmental differences, try to form a hypothesis that might explain these phenomenal trends that can be experimentally tested
  • design a follow up experiment to test hypothesis
I still need suggestions on what I can objectively measure, otherwise any observations would be purely subjective!
 
Re: human nature - inherently good or evil?

I would say mass is the most straightforward way to go. You'll have to rip them out of the soil root and all, but you can always replant afterwards.
 
Re: human nature - inherently good or evil?

radarmark said:
Hummm... if they are flowering, the size and color and wuantity of blooms. If bearing the same for the vegetables or seeds. If only ornamental, the number and size and color of the leaves? Or you could look up all the research cited by Penn State Aggies at: Research|Penn State: Does talking to plants help them grow?!
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I was thinking an ornamental, as sexual reproduction (flowering) has been linked to stress, whereas asexual reproduction has been favored in absence of stress.
 
Re: human nature - inherently good or evil?

"Does prayer constitute an environmental factor in the development of plants?"

--> The one thing missing from the list of steps in the scientific method in this thread is the use of a control group. Controlled studies of meditating on plants (with a control group of plants that do not receive meditation) have shown that 'prayer' does effect the development of plants.

Regarding heart patients, it would be fascinating to run three groups; one group who are told they are receiving prayer, one group who are told so but are lied to about receiving prayer (a placebo group), and one group with no prayer and not told anything.
 
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