The Christian Cross - True Origin

[Divos]

The Christian "Cross" or "Cruciform" is always associated with JESUS and his Crucifixion and associated with Roman Punishment, Roman Coins and Epigraphy tell a Completely different Story, and shows its true symbolic meaning

Exhibit A

Coin Dated to 44-42BC

There is a Cross, an Effigy, Shields and Swords, and Foot Support

Exhibit B

The CRUCIFORM TROPHY and the Criminals are upon the Floor tied up, the Cross is a Sacred Symbol representing Divus Iulius and Victory, its Divine, and they would never place a Criminal upon a CROSS, because, its a Divine Symbol

Exhibit C

The Cruciform Trophy of Caesar [GOD] and the Armour, repressenting the Armour of God

in the Biblical text of Ephesians chapter 6, there are 6 pieces of armor: the helmet, shield, loins, feet, sword, and breastplate. These pieces have a description of what they are: helmet of salvation, shield of faith, loins girt with truth (belt of truth), feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace (peace), the sword of the spirit/word of God, and the breastplate of righteousness

No Doubt, Ephesians is referring to CAESAR , GOD.

Exhibit D
69AD

COIN READS JUDEA

There is a CRUCIFORM TROPHY WITH ARMOUR AFFIXED UPON IT , the Criminal is UPON THE FLOOR - NEVER UPON THE CROSS ITSELF
The Crucifixion(VICTORY) of Jesus is a representation of the Coin above,

Capta means "Conquered", the term "Capta" is similer to Latin terms "Head" ( caput ), Golgotha ( 'Gûlgaltâ' is the Aramaic for 'skull') (HEAD), and Golgotha was the Location where Jesus was Crucified.

Alternatively a Tree, t: Jesus was crucified on a tree according to the books of "Acts" and "1 Peter"

 

[Divos]

Crucified Bacchus with Foot Support

Foot Support????

Caesar Temple with CROSS

Caesar WAX(Christ) Effigy upon the Cross (For he is Divine)

Christ = Wax (Anointed one = Oiled One = Wax One )

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

< -- yawn -- >

 

[Divos]

Roman Never Placed Criminals on Crosses
Fin des Voies Rapides (If Peak Oil Were no Object): April 2011

Crosses have an Ancient Tradition as being Associated with the SUN, and SUN is always synonymous with GOD (THEO), Julius Caesar was the FIRST Deified Person within the Roman Empire

Caesar with GOD in Greek letters

Iulius Caesar Theou Huios, Sōtēr. (With Sidus Iulium)

Star of David = Sidus Divus (Star of The Divine Caesar)
Herod the Greats Hat

 

[Divos]

The Quran says that he was not crucified but "a very similar figure appeared to them" or more precisely "was shown" (sura 4.157). The same with Marcion, who saw Jesus on the cross as a mere phantasma (cf. Tert. adv. Marc. 4.42). And the early church did not talk about crucifixion either.

Quran is right on targat, it was a FIGURE (EFFIGY)

“He was not crucified but only an effigy was shown to them.”
(Sura 4.157).

What IS an Effigy

http://divusjulius.wordpress.com/2010/03/17/liberalia2010/
On Friday, 17 March 44 BCE, the day of the Liberalia, the festival of Liber Pater (Bacchus/Dionysus), Julius Caesar received his state funeral and resurrected as god by the will of the people. A wax effigy of his slain body was presented, raised above the bier, at the exact spot where a cruciform tropaeum stood, and was then rotated for the attending crowd.

Appian of Alexandria (c.95-c.165)

When the crowd were in this state, and near to violence, someone raised above the bier a wax effigy of Caesar - the body itself, lying on its back on the bier, not being visible.

It thus later became a Symbol of VICTORY

The Kingdom of God began with Christ's death and Resurrection
The Roman Empire Begin with the WAX EFFIGY Placed in IUDAEA, and JUDEA was thus part of the Roman Empire

Kingdom of God is a Synonym with the ROMAN EMPIRE, it means "JESUS" (Judea) will Ressurected as part of the ROMAN EMPIRE (Kingdom of God)

Basileia tou Theou (Kingdom of God)
Basileia tou Romaion (Roman Empire)

Basileia means EMPIRE not KINGDOM, and THEOU is CAESAR

Birth of Jesus = Birth of Judea Province ( 6CE )
Death of Jesus = Death of Judea (70AD) WAR / Fall of Jerusalem ROMAN VIctory
Resurrection = As part of the Roman Empire


Luke has Jesus' birth in 6CE when Quirinius was governor of Syria

Cant get more Obvious then that

 

[Thomas]

If one is going to talk about symbolism, it is a wise move to locate the symbol in the hierarchy of symbols.

The Cross, like the Circle, the Triangle, the Square and so on, is a universal symbol used the world over — to identify specifically with Rome, and especially with the exoteric cultural aspect, is not going to get you anywhere.

One needs to discern between an object and a symbol. The ancients saw this distinction quite clearly, modernity hardly sees it at all, and consequently is prone to making erroneous assumptions.

The Cross stood on Golgotha before the world was made.

Much as I admire the Q'ran, the idea that anybody was executed 'in effigy' is simply a nonsense. I think the Romans, for a start, would be able to tell the difference ... ?

Again, a largely unrealised aspect of Christianity is that it manifests in a physical higher spiritual realities, in effect it's a higher plane making itself immediately manifest in the lower.

In exoteric terms, the symbol is universal, and in Christian terms it expresses aspects of the hermeneutic as a whole ... everything can be explained from the Cross, and for those 'with the eyes to see' it is self-explanatory.

When the Cross is referred to as a Tree, this signifies a certain teaching with regard to the creation account in Genesis.

God bless,

Thomas

 

[Divos]

P

If one is going to talk about symbolism, it is a wise move to locate the symbol in the hierarchy of symbols.

The Cross, like the Circle, the Triangle, the Square and so on, is a universal symbol used the world over — to identify specifically with Rome

Christianity is a ROMAN Religion, thus the Roman Context

The Cross stood on Golgotha before the world was made.

Much as I admire the Q'ran, the idea that anybody was executed 'in effigy' is simply a nonsense. I think the Romans, for a start, would be able to tell the difference ... ?

The Roman are the only Culture that created Cruciform Trophy Effigies, J-C (Julius Caesar) Wax-Body(Christ) was Crucified.

Again, a largely unrealised aspect of Christianity is that it manifests in a physical higher spiritual realities, in effect it's a higher plane making itself immediately manifest in the lower.

Using terms like "Spiritual Realities" is meaningless its just poetic hypnotism with no concrete meaning. also a money making scam, make the Ignorant/less educated less poor.

In exoteric terms, the symbol is universal

Christianity is a Roman home-brew Religion, if it was UNIVERSAL, Jesus would have appeared to the Chinese or the Aztecs, (thus he is biased and a Racist) (Specially the OT God, loves Jews(racism), hates everyone else, WHY, because its a MAN_MADE religion, created in the Greedy image of Man

God bless

The term "Bless", from P.Gmc. *blothisojan "mark with blood," from *blotham "blood" , it MEANS BLOOD, and "God" " from root *gheu- "to pour, pour a libation" "make a sacrifice"

A libation is a ritual pouring of a liquid as an offering to a god or spirit or in memory of those who have died. It was common in many religions of antiquity and continues to be offered in various cultures today.

Thus GOD BLESS = BLOOD SPILL/BLOOD SACRIFICE (Its really a Satanic, evil Saying)
....

PAX (L. pax (gen. pacis) "peace)

 

[Etu Malku]

If we want to get a clear understanding of what happened that day Yeshua was crucified we should go to the Roman records of that day (Roman's kept good records) . . . oops, no records of anyone named Jesus, Yeshua, Joshua, The Nazarene, etc. getting crucified that day, or any day.

 

[mojobadshah]

Anyone ever get a look at the Naqsh-i-Rustam tombs of the Persian Emperors. They call them crosses because their are impressions of crosses on the outside and Darius's cross has the farohar (winged disc sun symbol with a man) which someone once told me looked like a crucifix. The Garduneh-i-Chorshid "wheel of the sun" is the Zoroastrian cross and these tombs are in Chorashan "city where the sun rises" which was a center for Christians that sought exile because they suffered persecution under the Romans. What if the crucifix was some kind of symbol that represented the persecution the Persian Zoroastrian king of kings underwent at the hands of their non-believer enemies?

 

[Divos]

Anyone ever get a look at the Naqsh-i-Rustam tombs of the Persian Emperors. They call them crosses because their are impressions of crosses on the outside and Darius's cross has the farohar (winged disc sun symbol with a man) which someone once told me looked like a crucifix. The Garduneh-i-Chorshid "wheel of the sun" is the Zoroastrian cross and these tombs are in Chorashan "city where the sun rises" which was a center for Christians that sought exile because they suffered persecution under the Romans. What if the crucifix was some kind of symbol that represented the persecution the Persian Zoroastrian king of kings underwent at the hands of their non-believer enemies?

Remember that "Sun" and "God are interchangeable in the Ancient world, and Kings always associated themselves with GOD or the Sun.

Simply put, there could have been no royalty without a god or gods to ordain them, and its the Royal themselves who created "God", creating gods and religions was a means of establishing and creating "authority" for royals in order for them to rule in the first place. They were "ordained" by the very gods that they created.

King e Naqsh-i-Rustam is a "King"

The Roman Religion.i believes have a Strong tie with the Persians, and even the Jewish Religion,
believe it or not, The Highest Roman God in Rome was "IOVE", which perfectly transliterates into the Hebrew, Yahweh, the Christians try there best to cover thus up, by inserting a "U", hence "Yah_u_weh", in fact provokes "Ah_u_ra", maybe is a Accent thing, and the "r" was silent, Ahura became "ahua" > "Ihua" > "Yhwh" "Iove".

I have heard theories, that Zoroastrian Priests assisted Gaius Julius Caesar when he created the Solar Calender, in fact the old Zoro Calender was a " lunisolar" calender, Month (Moon-eth).

If you look at Loads of Caesar Coins, his symbols was the Cross, Star(hexagram/sidus iulium, and in some cases the Crescent Moon.

Moon-Star

Cross

Hexagram

Bronze Judean coin(above) datable to 37 BCE, the third year after Herod's appointment as "king of the Jews." The Greek inscription reads (clockwise from the bottom) Herodou Basileos ["of King Herod"]

See that STAR, that is the Symbol of Caesar, which mutated into the Star of David (Divos)

The Jewish, Christian and Islamic Symbol all represent Caesar and also Zoroastria.

Garduneh-i-Chorshid (Wheel of the Sun)

Mithras (Persian Mitre combined with Sol Invictus ... Divus Iulius)

The luni-solar Calender created by Julius Caesar, created the RISE of the Sun Gods within the Roman Empire, which begin with Divus Iulius

Yuletide (Yule > Julius) |
Decorating Christmas Tree (Tree is from TROphy), Roman DID decorated Trees, and made them into Trophys, as show above, placing a Star at the TOP, its a Caesar Symbol, notice Book of Act, Jesus was upon a Tree, its pure symbol.

Easter (15 March = Funeral of Caesar)

The clearest parallels were to be found in the death, apotheosis and worship of Caesar: Hudson agreed both with Ethelbert Stauffer’s conclusion that the Easter liturgy follows Caesar’s funeral, and with Carotta’s analysis that the Passion and Crucifixion account is also modeled on this ceremony, also note that the Caesar Funeral occurred near the Bacchus Festival, God of WINE

 

[radarmark]

The problem is that the truth you seek does not exist. Truth as some correspondence between a state-of-affair and a proposition of that state-of-affair just is not there. This absolutist notion of the truth fires scientism (the ideology of scientists), fundamentalism (the ideology of words as truth), and all conspiracy theories (a prime example of which we see above).

Truth is always a matter of relativity and intersubjectivity and probability and possibility. It does not grow on trees for us to pluck and eat as if it were the fruit of the tree of knowledge.

Pax et amore omnia vincunt!

 

[Divos]

The problem is that the truth you seek does not exist. Truth as some correspondence between a state-of-affair and a proposition of that state-of-affair just is not there. This absolutist notion of the truth fires scientism (the ideology of scientists), fundamentalism (the ideology of words as truth), and all conspiracy theories (a prime example of which we see above).

Truth is always a matter of relativity and intersubjectivity and probability and possibility. It does not grow on trees for us to pluck and eat as if it were the fruit of the tree of knowledge.

Pax et amore omnia vincunt!

Everything is a Conspiracy theory, the Bibles, Qurans, Torah, the News, which are all subject to interpretation and thus, are pure Conspiracy.

Conspiracy theory means "The Speak(Spira) Together(con) and to Spectate(theoro)

Truth is always a matter of relativity and intersubjectivity and probability and possibility.

Truth is always a matter of relativity, but when Religion is concerned .............

It does not grow on trees for us to pluck and eat as if it were the fruit of the tree of knowledge.

You using hypnotic symbolism, like using words like "pluck" "eat" "fruit" "tree", its not going to fool me, the above that i posted is about understanding the Symbolism

Pax

 

[Thomas]

Re: P

Christianity is a ROMAN Religion, thus the Roman Context

Why? Because the HQ is in Rome?

If you had ever read any of the documents from, say, the 1st to the 10th century, you'd realise the influence of Greek philosophy ... not a shred of Roman religion.

What we do have is evidence of the fact that Mithraism, a Roman religion, based on Greek ideas, contemporaneous with Christianity, borrowed heavily from Christian symbolism in Rome and elsewhere.

The Roman are the only Culture that created Cruciform Trophy Effigies, J-C (Julius Caesar) Wax-Body(Christ) was Crucified.

Immaterial. You won't understand anything by looking at the surface. Investigate what the crucifixion meant for Christianity, and show me how that was modelled on Rome.

Using terms like "Spiritual Realities" is meaningless its just poetic hypnotism with no concrete meaning. also a money making scam, make the Ignorant/less educated less poor.

Really? Again, you're ignorance of the doctrine you critique us telling. 'Spiritual Realities' has a concrete meaning in Christianity. You opinion on the matter is something else and, again, immaterial.

Christianity is a Roman home-brew Religion, if it was UNIVERSAL, Jesus would have appeared to the Chinese or the Aztecs, (thus he is biased and a Racist) (Specially the OT God, loves Jews(racism), hates everyone else, WHY, because its a MAN_MADE religion, created in the Greedy image of Man

Oh dear ...

God bless,

Thomas

 

[Divos]

Re: P

If you had ever read any of the documents from, say, the 1st to the 10th century, you'd realise the influence of Greek philosophy ... not a shred of Roman religion [Ignorance]

Roman Empire - Roman Religion

You won't understand anything by looking at the surface. Investigate what the crucifixion meant for Christianity

I Just Did

God bless,

I don't want a Bloody Sacrifice

I have shown Lots of Epigraphy, where are your Epigraphy for your Points?

 

[NiceCupOfTea]

If we want to get a clear understanding of what happened that day Yeshua was crucified we should go to the Roman records of that day (Roman's kept good records) . . . oops, no records of anyone named Jesus, Yeshua, Joshua, The Nazarene, etc. getting crucified that day, or any day.

are there any remaining records for that particular year regarding crucifixion in the area that Jesus was crucified ?

or is it just Jesus's that is not present ?

 

[NiceCupOfTea]

The true origin of the the cross in Christianity is Christ Crucified on a cross.

 

[arthra]

Please pardon my post on the Christian forum, I do not mean to intrude here..


Just a couple of things..

As to records... Since Jerusalem was destroyed around 71 CE it would be unlikely that many records prior to that era would have survived. Also there was a diaspora..

The Jews were not allowed to return to the city and it became Aelia Capitolina.

Aelia Capitolina - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Baha'i view of Quran 4:156

The verse to which the author refers is 4:156 and reads as follows:

"And for their saying, 'Verily we have slain the Messiah, Jesus the son of Mary, an Apostle of God'. Yet they slew him not, and they crucified him not, but they had only his likeness... No sure knowledge had they about him, but followed only an opinion, and they did not really slay him, but God took him up to Himself."

'Abdu'l-Baha's interpretation of the verse is provided in a Tablet published in Star of the West, vol. 2, no. 7, p. 13, in which He has written:

"In regard to the verse, which is revealed in the Koran, that His Highness, Christ, was not killed and was not crucified, by this is meant the Reality of Christ. Although they crucified this elemental body, yet the merciful reality and the heavenly existence remain eternal and undying, and it was protected from the oppression and persecution of the enemies, for Christ is eternal and Everlasting. How can He die? This death and crucifixion was imposed on the physical body of Christ, and not upon the Spirit of Christ"

See also Gleanings from the Writings of Baha'u'llah, pp. 85-6. Juan Ricardo Cole discusses Muslim objection to Gospel accounts of the crucifixion of Christ in "the Christian-Muslim Encounter", World Order, Winter 1977-8, pp. 18 and 22.

Baha'is believe Christ was martyred and crucified.

 

[Divos]

Please pardon my post on the Christian forum, I do not mean to intrude here..


Just a couple of things..

As to records... Since Jerusalem was destroyed around 71 CE it would be unlikely that many records prior to that era would have survived. Also there was a diaspora..




The Jews were not allowed to return to the city and it became Aelia Capitolina.

Aelia Capitolina - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Baha'i view of Quran 4:156

The verse to which the author refers is 4:156 and reads as follows:

"And for their saying, 'Verily we have slain the Messiah, Jesus the son of Mary, an Apostle of God'. Yet they slew him not, and they crucified him not, but they had only his likeness... No sure knowledge had they about him, but followed only an opinion, and they did not really slay him, but God took him up to Himself."

'Abdu'l-Baha's interpretation of the verse is provided in a Tablet published in Star of the West, vol. 2, no. 7, p. 13, in which He has written:

"In regard to the verse, which is revealed in the Koran, that His Highness, Christ, was not killed and was not crucified, by this is meant the Reality of Christ. Although they crucified this elemental body, yet the merciful reality and the heavenly existence remain eternal and undying, and it was protected from the oppression and persecution of the enemies, for Christ is eternal and Everlasting. How can He die? This death and crucifixion was imposed on the physical body of Christ, and not upon the Spirit of Christ"

See also Gleanings from the Writings of Baha'u'llah, pp. 85-6. Juan Ricardo Cole discusses Muslim objection to Gospel accounts of the crucifixion of Christ in "the Christian-Muslim Encounter", World Order, Winter 1977-8, pp. 18 and 22.

Baha'is believe Christ was martyred and crucified.

It was Caesar who was Original who was Martyred and Crucified - because Christianity is a Roman Religion, and Caesar is there God

As to records... Since Jerusalem was destroyed around 71 CE it would be unlikely that many records prior to that era would have survived. Also there was a diaspora..

(Titus Flavius)Josephus wrote about some of the history, specifically that of the Jewish War of 70AD, where Titus makes Fishers of Men, documents Mary eating her Child as a Passover Lamb and severe famine

The Jews were not allowed to return to the city and it became Aelia Capitolina.

Capitolina is related to the term for Head/Skull alike Capta, this mockery is within the Gospels, punned as "Golgotha" (Place of the Skull)

Caesars Resurrection

The Jews were not allowed to return to the city and it became Aelia Capitolina.

The Jewish Maccabees escaped to Arabia, whom set up a shrine called the "Mecca_Kabaa" (which are derived from the term Maccabees),whom wrote the Quran, has revenge against Rome, for destroying Herod Temple, as a competitor against Christianity

 

[Etu Malku]

are there any remaining records for that particular year regarding crucifixion in the area that Jesus was crucified ?

or is it just Jesus's that is not present ?

There's no mention of Pontius Pilate crucifying anyone named Jesus. It is difficult to determine the actual date of this crucifixion, but I can't find anything in historian Tacitus' accounts.

Which of course only means that it isn't known to be documented and could have taken place.

 

[bob x]

There are no records whatsoever of any criminal trial of any date from the Roman period. None. Paper does not survive very well, except under extraordinary circumstances (such as being sealed in jars in the desert, in the Dead Sea Scrolls case). People have a very exaggerated notion of what we have preserved from ancient times.