radarmark
Quaker-in-the-Making
Ha ha!Panta Rhei! Everything Flows
Different Christian perspectives
- Thread starter A Cup Of Tea
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Ha ha!Panta Rhei! Everything Flows
Panta Rhei! Everything Flows
I am serious.
Etu Malku
Mercuræn
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My perspective on Christianity?
Whereas I have little interest in or use for Right Hand Paths, I certainly see Christianity as a continuation of Judaism and the reorganizing of older Pagan religions.
I don't believe Yeshua was anything more than someone leading yet another renegade Jewish sect. Later Constantine and his Council of Nicea would elevate this cult to a higher status and the Church Fathers elevated it even further.
The teachings are good, but they can be found in much older teachings, which doesn't discredit their worth whatsoever. Same old product but with newer shinier packaging.
Whereas I have little interest in or use for Right Hand Paths, I certainly see Christianity as a continuation of Judaism and the reorganizing of older Pagan religions.
I don't believe Yeshua was anything more than someone leading yet another renegade Jewish sect. Later Constantine and his Council of Nicea would elevate this cult to a higher status and the Church Fathers elevated it even further.
The teachings are good, but they can be found in much older teachings, which doesn't discredit their worth whatsoever. Same old product but with newer shinier packaging.
I am into the Center path.
radarmark
Quaker-in-the-Making
I was laughing at how you responded to my use of "whitehead" with one of your own!
Oh ok sorry
P
Princely
Guest
I think Christianity has been misled and it has taken the wide gate to destruction.
I have Faith in Jesus but in a different way than the normal Christians. In fact I do not believe Christians follow the Lord as He wanted.I believe Jesus gave His follower the same message that was given to Him and sent him/her into the world as He was sent into the world thus making him/her son of man.
The reason I was born and came into the world is to testify to the truth.
It is written in scripture;
Psalms
25:12 When a man fears the Lord, He will teach him the way he should choose. 13 He will abide in prosperity, and his descendants shall inherit the land. 14 The friendship of the Lord is with those who fear him, and he makes his covenant known to them.
28:8 The Lord is the strength of his people; the saving refuge of his anointed.
30:4 For the word of the Lord is upright, and all his works are truthful. 5 He loves justice and right;
34:10The Lord is good; happy are those who take refuge in him. Fear the Lord, you his holy ones, for nothing is lacking to those who fear Him. The great grow poor and hungry but those who seek the Lord want for no good thing.
34:15The Lord has eyes for the just, and ears for there cry. When the just cry out, the Lord hears them, and rescues them from all distress.
34:22 The Lord redeems the life of his servants; none of those who take refuge in him incurs guilt.
Those are the words of the Lord.
I came down from heaven not to do my own will but the will of the one who sent me. Whoever chooses to do his will shall know about this teaching namely, whether it comes from God or whether I‘m speaking on my own.
Whoever speaks on his own seeks his own glory, but whoever seeks the glory of the one who sent him is truthful, and there is no dishonesty in his heart.
I am the narrow gate, anyone who enters by me will be saved.
I have Faith in Jesus but in a different way than the normal Christians. In fact I do not believe Christians follow the Lord as He wanted.I believe Jesus gave His follower the same message that was given to Him and sent him/her into the world as He was sent into the world thus making him/her son of man.
The reason I was born and came into the world is to testify to the truth.
It is written in scripture;
Psalms
25:12 When a man fears the Lord, He will teach him the way he should choose. 13 He will abide in prosperity, and his descendants shall inherit the land. 14 The friendship of the Lord is with those who fear him, and he makes his covenant known to them.
28:8 The Lord is the strength of his people; the saving refuge of his anointed.
30:4 For the word of the Lord is upright, and all his works are truthful. 5 He loves justice and right;
34:10The Lord is good; happy are those who take refuge in him. Fear the Lord, you his holy ones, for nothing is lacking to those who fear Him. The great grow poor and hungry but those who seek the Lord want for no good thing.
34:15The Lord has eyes for the just, and ears for there cry. When the just cry out, the Lord hears them, and rescues them from all distress.
34:22 The Lord redeems the life of his servants; none of those who take refuge in him incurs guilt.
Those are the words of the Lord.
I came down from heaven not to do my own will but the will of the one who sent me. Whoever chooses to do his will shall know about this teaching namely, whether it comes from God or whether I‘m speaking on my own.
Whoever speaks on his own seeks his own glory, but whoever seeks the glory of the one who sent him is truthful, and there is no dishonesty in his heart.
I am the narrow gate, anyone who enters by me will be saved.
Dream
Well-Known Member
How would you interpret Matthew 16:18? "...and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it." Do you suggest the gates of hell have prevailed? If so you aren't the only one to do so, and a lot of people are discussing that. Some shocking things keep happening in Christianity. Some people feel that the failings are because individuals have failings, not that Christianity has itself failed. What do you think of the other point of view -- the one that suggests the failures mean that its over. Do you remember Revelation chapters 1 & 2 about how it says the lamp-stand can be taken away? Do you think this has or hasn't happened? Do you think that the 'Church' can fail?Princely said:
I think that Cup of Tea was trying to show some Christians who were thinking out of the box. There are many strains of Christianity out there. First you have your state churches, then your non-state churches. You have your old churches claiming apostolic succession and also new ones. Cup of Tea was pointing out the church in Stockholm.
seattlegal
Mercuræn Buddhist
I'm really skeptical about the apostolic succession claim, as Jesus said that God could raise up children of Abraham from stones. (Luke 3:8)
Dream
Well-Known Member
God could also make clouds into t-shirts, but I've never heard of it. Why wouldn't God favor a credible line of succession to preserve core teachings?Seattlegal said:
Dream
Well-Known Member
Allel, Yes, I inadvertently stumbled upon a connection between clouds and t-shirts. Pressure and resistance are fundamental to both. It is good to be observant and thank you for pointing it out. I also did not forget what you said about the impermanence of things we write. Certainly our thoughts change long after we write something. I find however that writing helps me think sometimes, and particularly writing to other people helps. Reading is much more difficult, but sometimes I do that too.
I'm not really arguing with Seattlegal so much as giving her space to reply again about stones, to expand on it a little bit.
I'm not really arguing with Seattlegal so much as giving her space to reply again about stones, to expand on it a little bit.
seattlegal
Mercuræn Buddhist
What if they don't preserve core teachings, yet make the claim that their teachings are correct due to the "infallibility of apostolic succession?" Wouldn't that make skepticism all the more needful?
Dream
Well-Known Member
Some who claim to be apostles do not claim apostolic succession yet may still not preserve core teachings. Then the claim to succession appears extraneous to the problem of people claiming to be apostles who aren't apostles. If you are skeptical of corrupt apostles claiming succession, would you rather have equally corrupt apostles or worse with no predecessors to compare against? Would you not prefer corrupt, infallible succession-claiming apostles to corrupt, infallible free-radical ones? (Yes, I have left out the case of uncorrupted apostles. I am just discussing the comparison of corrupt ones to corrupt ones.)Seattlegal said:
Dream
Well-Known Member
If I ever say anything interesting about the Bible it is only interesting because I have heard something from other people more intelligent than myself or thought them so. I try to be interesting, but it is like the t-shirts and clouds. That is a terrific analogy on your part to explain what happens. I thought nothing of T-shirts or of clouds until you, who are clever, saw something about them. You saw a pattern. Most of the things you are say are hard for me to read.Allelyah said:
The post which you said was interesting is the result of two sources of information which really are one source, and so I borrowed the idea. One of them was the gospel of John, and the other was a comment by a Talmudic scholar. Both sources come from the same group, and so to consider me as an independent commenter would be a mistake. There is only one source: Talmudic. I found their comments to be interesting, so what I said was influenced by them. I didn't read the Talmud myself, but that is pretty much where interesting comments come from. I did read John, got the idea there and later heard it seconded by a scholar; but John is influenced by the Talmud so the two sources are one and I am none.
In discussing Biblical topics it seems appropriate to listen to Biblical resources and scholars and incorporate ideas. If you trace back far enough most of them are Talmudic. If I were to quote one of them I would have provided them as a source, but as I'm merely posting opinions and am a layman I thought it would be harmless to make use of their contributions to my thought process. It was not plagiarism but more like a general usage and throwing the ideas around. It is a habit I got growing up as an American Protestant.
This is supposed to be an 'Interfaith' forum. Posts like the one you mentioned are not always in the spirit of the forum unless they pertain to helping people of different faiths to understand each other. But there is room for other discussions, too, and for some small conversation.
Dream
Well-Known Member
Conversation through books can be valuable. Also any conversation can be part of learning, including but not limited to coincidences. I am not sure its possible to know anything completely.
P
Princely
Guest
The gates of hell have prevailed against it because the Christian religion was not started by Jesus and the son of man. It was only used to spread the word. The son of man is rising now. The gates of hell will not prevail against His church. Jesus was not saying that Simon Peter was the rock but the individual who God reveals His words to, the son of man.
Scripture has it;
I will strengthen the house of Judah, the house of Joseph I will save; I will bring them back, because I have mercy on them, they shall be as though I had never cast them off, for I am the Lord, their God, and I will hear them.
I will strengthen them in the Lord, and they shall walk in his name, says the Lord
They shall call upon my name, and I will hear them. I will say, "They are my people," and they shall say, "The Lord is my God."
Seek the Lord, all you humble of the earth, who have observed his law; Seek justice, seek humility; perhaps you may be sheltered on the day of the Lord’s anger.
Surely the Lord God does nothing, without revealing his plans to his servants the prophets.
Whoever acts in truth comes into the light, and clearly sees the works he does in God.
I do nothing on my own; I judge as I hear, and my judgment is just, because I’m not seeking my own will but the will of the one who sent me.
Dream
Well-Known Member
Orthodox and Catholics believe it grew as a branch of Judaism.Princely said:
Matthew 13:41 "The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;" Is this what you are talking about?
That sounds like a feasible explanation of the passage if you can explain it. What does changing a man's name from 'Simon' to 'Peter' have to do with it?
P
Princely
Guest
Princely Wrote;
The original disciples were merely stand ins or symbols for the future disciples, the son of man. Jesus actually brought the wrath of God. That is why he spoke in a way that was so elusive. Scripture has spoken of a time when God was going back to His place until man seeks Gods presence and pays for his sin.That is what happened when Jesus came and left, God was leaving man to his own evil but God had to set up a way for man to call Him back.That is what Jesus showed us. The disciples themselves would not succeed because they were not intended to, they were only used to spread the word of God throughout the world, which is close to be completed now.They did not understand what Jesus said and that is why Christianity is so confused, because they follow them and not Jesus and the son of man.That is why Jesus said that the disciples would not follow Him then but would later. Later is now.Those who do what is right will be those disciples, the son of man.
Jesus and the son of man say things that are not meant for the everyday man to understand but for those who earn the ears to hear it. That is why He said and I say as well,"Anyone who chooses to do Gods will shall know about this teaching, namely, whether it comes from God or I am merely speaking on my own".
Scripture says;
"The ear that hears, and the eye that sees - the Lord has made them both".
I will restore your judges as at first, and your counselors as in the beginning; After that you shall be called city of justice, faithful city. Zion shall be redeemed by judgment, and her repentant ones by justice.
Rebels and sinners alike shall be crushed, those who desert the LORD shall be consumed.
The mountain of the Lords house shall be established as the highest mountain and raised above the hills. All nations shall stream toward it;
The Lords glory will be shelter and protection for all His people.
"Truly, I tell you, no one can see the kingdom of God without being born from above."
"Truly, I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God without being born of water and Spirit. Flesh makes flesh, spirit makes spirit. Do not be surprised that I tell you, you must all be born from above.
The wind blows where it wills, and you can hear the sound it makes, but you do not know where it comes from or where it goes; so it is with everyone who is born of the Spirit.
When you lift up the Son of Man, then you will realize that I AM, and that I do nothing on my own, but I only say what the Lord has taught me.
For the one who sent me is with me. He has not deserted me, because I always do what pleases him.
If you carry on in my words, you are truly be my disciples,
then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.
Truly, I say to you, everyone who commits sin is a slave of sin.
A servant does not remain in a household forever, but a son always remains.
So if the son frees you, you will truly be free.
I came into the world as its light, so that everyone who believes in me might not remain in the dark.
If anyone hears my words and does not keep them, I do not condemn him, for I did not come to condemn the world but to save it.
Whoever rejects me and does not accept my words he already has his judge namely the words I‘ve spoken that’s what will condemn him on the last day,
because I did not speak on my own, but the Lord who sent me commanded me what to say and speak.
And since I know that his commandment means eternal life. What I say is spoken just as he instructed me.
Dream
Well-Known Member
Princely, what I like is that you are trying to take a holistic view of interpretation and to make everything work together. That takes focus, and there are bound to be some snafus but its quite a respectable effort. What you have is a model of how you think the scriptures work together. Not everybody has the set of attributes required to make that effort to try and get all the gears meshing.
While it indicates strengths such strength in one area of your life will normally be associated with deficiencies in other areas. That is because nobody has it all together. You are like butter, and there is only so much of you to cover the bread. So much modeling as you're doing usually requires a lot of independent thinking. While it can be very good, you should be cautious of its negative effects. You should try and include others in your decision making process in all areas of your life such as when making life-changing decisions. If you are going to change jobs, buy a car, new girlfriend etc its a good idea to find out what some other people think, even though you may not see another person's opinion as relevant. Be inclusive, and you will avoid some pitfalls. Similarly its a great idea to let your Biblical model be open for testing. I appreciate your explaining what you meant.
Of course it is sometimes hard to find people who will listen to your model. That can be a problem, particularly given that we tend to fall in love with a theory. Its possible to feel like you've got everything all worked out only to have it completely change at some future point. Since there is so much focus and study that goes into it, a Biblical model can be seductive and satisfying but suddenly drop you like yesterday's news.
While it indicates strengths such strength in one area of your life will normally be associated with deficiencies in other areas. That is because nobody has it all together. You are like butter, and there is only so much of you to cover the bread. So much modeling as you're doing usually requires a lot of independent thinking. While it can be very good, you should be cautious of its negative effects. You should try and include others in your decision making process in all areas of your life such as when making life-changing decisions. If you are going to change jobs, buy a car, new girlfriend etc its a good idea to find out what some other people think, even though you may not see another person's opinion as relevant. Be inclusive, and you will avoid some pitfalls. Similarly its a great idea to let your Biblical model be open for testing. I appreciate your explaining what you meant.
Of course it is sometimes hard to find people who will listen to your model. That can be a problem, particularly given that we tend to fall in love with a theory. Its possible to feel like you've got everything all worked out only to have it completely change at some future point. Since there is so much focus and study that goes into it, a Biblical model can be seductive and satisfying but suddenly drop you like yesterday's news.
A Cup Of Tea
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This is an episode of Extra Credits that deals with Religion ans specifically religion in video games. This will not be for everyone. It is constructed for the MTV generation and is rather quick. It also helps if one understands something about games (and also doesn't hate them).
But I think it is interesting to see that community discussing the issue, and it might also offer a perspective not many of use usually perceive.
Extra Credits, Season 5, Episode 16 - Religion in Games (Part 1) - YouTube
But I think it is interesting to see that community discussing the issue, and it might also offer a perspective not many of use usually perceive.
Extra Credits, Season 5, Episode 16 - Religion in Games (Part 1) - YouTube