Who is the real Gabriel?

Our Holy Prophet (PBUH) Adopts Zaid

Our Holy Prophet (PBUH) was not late in rewarding Zaid for his incomparable devotion. He immediately took Zaid by the hand and directed him to the Hijir neighborhood where the Quraysh lived. He then addressed the crowd:

“Oh, those who are present! Bear witness that Zaid is my son; I am his heir and he is mine.”

The Meccans would do this whenever they wanted to adopt someone. And by conforming to this custom, our Holy Prophet (PBUH) had adopted Zaid as his son.
Our Holy Prophet’s (PBUH) beautiful gesture caused a breeze of happiness to stir in Harithah’s heart. This meant that his son was in safe hands.
With his heart at peace, Harithah left his son with the Master of the Universe (PBUH) and returned to his homeland. (6)

After this, everyone began to refer to Zaid as, “Zaid-the Son of Muhammad”.

However, after our Holy Prophet (PBUH) was appointed as a Messenger, he received a revelation calling for those who had been adopted to be referred to by the names of their biological fathers. (7) Thereupon, Hazrat Zaid was referred to as “Zaid-the Son of Harithah”.
 
that story is in the Quran, but only when derived

and do the general people not have an understanding of good befalling good people and visa versa?; they indeed do, for example, if a murderer gets killed, they'd immediately recognise it as the 'what goes round comes round principle'; this is a metaphysical law everyone is familiar with for it is so obvious

also in the Quran ALlah basically says that every human is create with an innate nature inclined towards recognising basic good and bad and the one and only GOD too; also one which is inclined towards good, hence this is why children are so innocent and angelic in nature; they do get bad when exposed to too much evil and their innate nature gets mutilated

science has confirmed this nature too; here are the Islamic evidence, followed by the scientific one:

The Prophet Muhammad said, "No babe is born but upon Fitra (as a Muslim). It is his parents who make him a Jew or a Christian or a Polytheist." (Sahih Muslim, Book 033, Number 6426)
Islam is the religion of all Prophets, Adam to Muhammad. Children are not born out of any sin, original, inherited or derived. They are born on the religion of their nature, i.e., Islam.
RECOGNITION OF ALLAH

The question which arises here is, "How can all people be expected to believe in Allah given their varying- backgrounds, societies and cultures? For people to be responsible for worshipping Allah they all have to have access to knowledge of Allah. The final revelation teaches that all mankind have the recognition of Allah imprinted on their souls, a part of their very nature with which they are created.

In Soorah Al-A'raaf, Verses 172-173; Allah explained that when He created Adam, He caused all of Adam's descendants to come into existence and took a pledge from them saying, Am I not your Lord? To which they all replied, " Yes, we testify to It:'

Allah then explained why He had all of mankind bear witness that He is their creator and only true God worthy of worship. He said, "That was In case you (mankind) should say on the day of Resurrection, "Verily we were unaware of all this." That is to say, we had no idea that You Allah, were our God. No one told us that we were only supposed to worship You alone. Allah went on to explain That it was also In case you should say, "Certainly It was our ancestors who made partners (With Allah) and we are only their descendants; will You then destroy us for what those liars did?" Thus, every child is born with a natural belief in Allah and an inborn inclination to worship Him alone called in Arabic the "Fitrah".

If the child were left alone, he would worship Allah in his own way, but all children are affected by those things around them, seen or unseen.
The Prophet (PBUH) reported that Allah said, "I created my servants in the right religion but devils made them go astray". The Prophet (PBUH) also said, "Each child is born in a state of "Fitrah", then his parents make him a Jew, Christian or a Zoroastrian, the way an animal gives birth to a normal offspring. Have you noticed any that were born mutilated?" (Collected by Al-Bukhaaree and Muslim).
So, just as the child submits to the physical laws which Allah has put in nature, his soul also submits naturally to the fact that Allah is his Lord and Creator. But, his parents try to make him follow their own way and the child is not strong enough in the early stages of his life to resist or oppose the will of his parents. The religion which the child follows at this stage is one of custom and upbringing and Allah does not hold him to account or punish him for this religion. (By Abu Ameena Bilal Phillips )

Every Child is Born Muslim


Children are born believers in God, academic claims

Children are "born believers" in God and do not simply acquire religious beliefs through indoctrination, according to an academic.

Dr Justin Barrett, a senior researcher at the University of Oxford's Centre for Anthropology and Mind, claims that young people have a predisposition to believe in a supreme being because they assume that everything in the world was created with a purpose.

He says that young children have faith even when they have not been taught about it by family or at school, and argues that even those raised alone on a desert island would come to believe in God.


"The preponderance of scientific evidence for the past 10 years or so has shown that a lot more seems to be built into the natural development of children's minds than we once thought, including a predisposition to see the natural world as designed and purposeful and that some kind of intelligent being is behind that purpose," he told BBC Radio 4's Today programme.


"If we threw a handful on an island and they raised themselves I think they would believe in God."


In a lecture to be given at the University of Cambridge's Faraday Institute on Tuesday, Dr Barrett will cite psychological experiments carried out on children that he says show they instinctively believe that almost everything has been designed with a specific purpose.

In one study, six and seven-year-olds who were asked why the first bird existed replied "to make nice music" and "because it makes the world look nice".

Another experiment on 12-month-old babies suggested that they were surprised by a film in which a rolling ball apparently created a neat stack of blocks from a disordered heap.

Dr Barrett said there is evidence that even by the age of four, children understand that although some objects are made by humans, the natural world is different.

He added that this means children are more likely to believe in creationism rather than evolution, despite what they may be told by parents or teachers.

Dr Barrett claimed anthropologists have found that in some cultures children believe in God even when religious teachings are withheld from them.

"Children's normally and naturally developing minds make them prone to believe in divine creation and intelligent design. In contrast, evolution is unnatural for human minds; relatively difficult to believe."



Children are born believers in God, academic claims - Telegraph

Sin and original sin can not be explained properly by none religious point of view for sin is base on ones relationship with God.

God said everyone is born as his children and Jesus confirm this
Matthew 19:14 Jesus said, "Let the little children come to me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of heaven belongs to such as these."

And then Luke repeated what Matthew has written;

Luke 18:16 But Jesus called the children to him and said, "Let the little children come to me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of God belongs to such as these.

God is the religion of all religion as He is king of kings lord or lords.

Matthew 4:10
10 Then Jesus said to him, “Be gone, Satan! For it is written,
“‘You shall worship the Lord your God and him only shall you serve.’”
Exodus 20: 1 - 7
1 And God spoke all these words:
2 “I am the LORD your God, who brought you out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery.
3 “You shall have no other gods before[a] me.
4 “You shall not make for yourself an image in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below.
5 You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the parents to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me,
6 but showing love to a thousand generations of those who love me and keep my commandments.
7 “You shall not misuse the name of the LORD your God, for the LORD will not hold anyone guiltless who misuses his name.
Exodus 20:22
22 Then the LORD said to Moses, “Tell the Israelites this: ‘You have seen for yourselves that I have spoken to you from heaven: 23 Do not make any gods to be alongside me; do not make for yourselves gods of silver or gods of gold.
That is why Jesus said:
“Lord Forgive them for they not know what they do”
“Blessed are those who have not seen and yet believe”

Every child is born as children of God.

Children are like sheep’s that needs a good shepherd to guide them to the right path less they stray to the wrong path.

John 10:27 -28
My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. And I give unto them eternal life, and they shall never perish”.

Muslims have strayed away from the Good Shepherd and Jesus will still try His very best to bring them back to the flock for they are still children of God.

When God reveal Himself to Moses at Mt. Sinai He strictly instructed Moses to write down everything because God wants to make sure that men now and in the future will remember everything as it is. Those writings were then protected by the Levites and eventually Jesus Christ will be the fulfillment of those writings.

Exodus 17:14 Then the LORD said to Moses, "Write this on a scroll as something to be remembered and make sure that Joshua hears it, because I will completely blot out the memory of Amalek from under heaven."

In the Quran Gabriel or Allah advice Mohammed that if he is in doubt is to consult the people of the book;

Sura[10:94] If you have any doubt regarding what is revealed to you from your Lord, then ask those who read the previous scripture. Indeed, the truth has come to you from your Lord. Do not be with the doubters.

Why would Jibril tell Mohammed to consult the people of the book if the Bible is corrupt? Plus Mohammed can’t read how will he know what is being reveal to him orally is the truth? Especially since the truth has been written down as commanded by God to Moses, Exodus 17:14, Mohammed will need to be literate to be able to compare what is being verbally reveal to him by Jibril and what is written on the Bible or Torah is true or not.

THE EIGHT BEATITUDES OF JESUS

Jesus Christ gave us the eight Beatitudes in the Sermon on the Mount, recorded for all posterity in the Gospel of Matthew, the first Book of the New Testament of the Bible. Matthew's Gospel is directed to an audience steeped in Hebrew tradition. The Gospel of Matthew stressed that Jesus Christ is the Messiah foretold in Hebrew Scripture, our Old Testament, and that the Kingdom of the Messiah is the Kingdom of God in Heaven. Jesus offers us a way of life that promises eternity in the Kingdom of Heaven.

The teachings of Christ Jesus were simple but unique and innovative at the time of his life on earth.
"Blessed are the poor in spirit,
for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

Blessed are they who mourn,
for they shall be comforted.

Blessed are the meek,
for they shall inherit the earth.

Blessed are they who hunger and thirst for righteousness,
for they shall be satisfied.

Blessed are the merciful,
for they shall obtain mercy.

Blessed are the pure of heart,
for they shall see God.

Blessed are the peacemakers,
for they shall be called children of God.

Blessed are they who are persecuted for the sake of righteousness,
for theirs is the kingdom of heaven."

Gospel of St. Matthew 5:3-10
 
There is the description of Muhammad [saw] in the Torah and original Injeel [Gospel] too, but that verse is specifically refering to the Torah and the Jews; there were a few jews that came into Islam after recognising the Prophet [saw] and teachings of Islam after what is mentioned in the Torah

Also all the jews basically recognised islam as the truth, but they [apart from a few] nonetheless rejected it

but allthough the Quran could have been verified by descrpitions in Torah, Allah does also point out some of it's distortion

here are the relevent verses and hadiths:

So, if you, O Muhammad (s), are in doubt concerning what We have revealed to you — hypothetically speaking — (then question those who read the Scripture) i.e. the Torah ((that was) before you) 'Abdullah Ibn Salam and his followers. The Prophet (s) said, ‘I have no doubt, nor will I question’. Verily the Truth from your Lord has come to you; so do not be of the waverers, [of] those who have doubts about it.

The Holy Book contains many prophecies about the prophet Muhammad; the Testament of Moses, a book which is not considered canonical, determines his birth year. Psalm" 84" determines the place of the Muslims Hajj, the Book of Deuteronomy (3:23) determines the place on which the first revelation of the Holy Quran would shine.

Isaiah (21:13) determines the place to which he would migrate; it even refers to one of the important military confrontation between the expected prophet and his enemies. For all of these reasons the Jews are reported in the Islamic literature to have known the period in which the prophet Muhammad would be born, the place where he would be born, the place to which he would migrate to and many other events in the life of the prophet Muhammad. In this short article, we will choose some of these events that show that they knew the Prophet Muhammad.

God says in the Holy Quran what means:

Those to whom We gave the Scripture know him as they know their own sons. But indeed, a party of them conceal the truth while they know [it].(2-146)

Bahira, the Monk:
When the Messenger of Allâh was twelve years old, he went with his uncle Abu Talib on a business journey to Syria. When they reached Busra (which was a part of Syria, in the vicinity of Howran under the Roman domain) they met a monk called Bahira (his real name was Georges), who showed great kindness, and entertained them lavishly. He had never been in the habit of receiving or entertaining them before. He readily enough recognized the Prophet and said while taking his hand: "This is the master of all humans. Allâh will send him with a Message which will be a mercy to all beings." Abu Talib asked: "How do you know that?" He replied: "When you appeared from the direction of ‘Aqabah, all stones and trees prostrated themselves, which they never do except for a Prophet. I can recognize him also by the seal of Prophethood which is below his shoulder, like an apple. We have got to learn this from our books." He also asked Abu Talib to send the boy back to Makkah and not to take him to Syria for fear of the Jews. Abu Talib obeyed and sent him back to Makkah with some of his men servants.

The Madinese always heard the Jews say that a Prophet was about to rise, for the time for a new dispensation had arrived. Him they would follow and then smite their enemies as the children of ‘Ad and Iram had been smitten.

Abdullah bin Salam, the most learned rabbi among the Jews came to see the Prophet when he arrived, and asked him certain questions to ascertain his real Prophethood. No sooner did he hear the Prophet’s answers than he embraced Islam, but added that if his people knew of his Islamization they would advance false arguments against me. The Prophet sent for some Jews and asked them about ‘Abdullah bin Salam, they testified to his scholarly aptitude and virtuous standing. Here it was divulged to them that he had embraced Islam and on the spot, they imparted categorically opposite testimonies and described him as the most evil of all evils. In another narration ‘Abdullah bin Salam said, "O Jews! Be Allâh fearing. By Allâh, the only One, you know that he is the Messenger of Allâh sent to people with the Truth." They replied, "You are lying." ... That was the Prophet’s first experience with the Jews.

Abdullah ibn Salam was a Levite Jewish rabbi in Yathrib who was widely respected and honoured by the people of the city even by those who were not Jewish. For a fixed period each day, he would worship, teach and preach in the Synagogue. Thereafter he would devote himself to the study of the Torah. In this study he became particularly struck by some verses of the Torah which dealt with the coming of prophets such as Jesus and Muhammad, who would complete the message of previous prophets. Abdullah therefore took an immediate and keen interest when he heard reports of the appearance of a prophet in Mecca. He said:

"When I heard of the appearance of the Messenger of God I began to make enquiries about his name, his genealogy, his characteristics, his time and place and I began to compare this information with what is contained in our books. From these enquiries, I became convinced about the authenticity of his prophethood and I affirmed the truth of his mission."

Conversion of Abdullah
In 622, Prophet Muhammad left Mecca for Yathrib. When he reached Yathrib and stopped at Quba, a man came rushing into the city, calling out to people and announcing the arrival of Prophet Muhammad. On hearing the news, Abdullah ibn Salam exclaimed the Shahadah (Testimony of faith that there is only one God and Muhammad is His Messenger.) and told his aunt, who was sitting nearby: "Aunt, he is really, by God, the brother of Moses and follows his religion...".[1] Tradition recounts Abdullah's early life in his own words:

Without any delay or hesitation, Abdullah went out to meet the Prophet. He saw crowds of people at his door. I moved about in the crowds until I reached close to him. The first words I heard him say were: 'O people! Spread peace...Share food...Pray during the night while people sleep... and you will enter Paradise in peace...' I looked at him closely. I scrutinized him and was convinced that his face was not that of an imposter. I went closer to him and made the declaration of faith that there is no god but God and that Muhammad is the Messenger of God. The Prophet turned to me and asked: 'What is your name?' 'Al-Husayn ibn Salam,' I replied. 'Instead, it is (now) Abdullah ibn Salam,' he said (giving me a new name). 'Yes,' I agreed. 'Abdullah ibn Salam (it shall be). By Him who has sent you with the Truth, I do not wish to have another name after this day.' I returned home and introduced Islam to my wife, my children and the rest of my household.

Safiyya was born in Medina to Huyayy ibn Akhtab, the chief of the Jewish tribe Banu Nadir, who became Muhammad's wife. She was, along with all other wives of Muhammad, titled Umm-ul-Mo'mineen or the "Mother of Believers".[2]

On the authority of the Mother of believers Safiyah - may Allah be pleased with her - narrated: Safiyah, daughter of Huyayi bin Akhtab [who was a leader of the Jews] said: I was the closest child to my and my uncle Abi Yasir’s heart. Whenever they saw me with a child of theirs, they should pamper me so tenderly to the exclusion of anyone else. However, with the advent of the Messenger of Allâh and setting in Quba’ with Bani ‘Amr bin ‘Awf, my , Huyayi bin Akhtab and my uncle Abu Yasir bin Akhtab went to see him and did not return until sunset when they came back walking lazily and fully dejected. I, as usually, hurried to meet them smiling, but they would not turn to me for the grief that caught them. I heard my uncle Abu Yasir say to Ubai and Huyayi: "Is it really he (i.e. Muhammad)?" The former said: "It is he, I swear by Allâh!" "Did you really recognize him?" they asked. He answered: "Yes, and my heart is burning with enmity towards him"

Salama ibn Slama Albadry
Narrated Salama ibn Salama Albadry "while I was young, there used to be a Jewish neighbor living next door to us. Once he came to the place where our tribesmen used to sit and began to talk to us about resurrection, the Judgment day, reckoning, the measure, hell and paradise. I was the youngest of them at that time. He was talking to idolaters who do never believe that there will be resurrection, so they asked" damn! is that possible that people will be resurrected again and they will either go to hell or paradise and that they will be rewarded according to their deeds?"
"I swear in the name of God, this will happen." He said
"How can we be sure of that you are talking about?" They said.
"A prophet will be sent soon, his locus will be there." Pointing by his finger between Mekka and Yemen." He said
"When can we see him?" They asked
"Looking at me, he said "If this boy became a young man, he will see him." He said
Salam said" Not many years didn't pass until the prophet was sent and this Jew was still alive among us, we believed in him but he didn't out of envy and rancor.
"We asked him" damn ! Aren't you the one who told us about him?"
"Yes, I did. But he is not a prophet."

In fact, the Jews, though many of them believed in Muhammad, refused to believe because they wanted this prophet to be from them.The Holy Quran commented on such approach of the Jews in the following verse:
And when the Book was sent to them by God verifying what had been revealed to them already even though before it they used to pray for victory over the unbelievers and even though they recognised it when it came to them, they renounced it. The curse of God be on those who deny! (2:89)
 
Also the Holy Quran comments on the attitude of the Jews in the following verse:

They disbelieved in him though they knew him exactly they recognized their children, The Holy Quran says commenting on their situation saying "The people of the Book know this as they know their own sons; but some of them conceal the truth which they themselves know. (2:146)
Prior to the advent of prophet Mohammed, the Jews emigrated to Madina and Tema because they understood the prophecies in their Holy Book especially those which refer to the locus of the Message and also the place of his determination.

Ibn Isaq,a well-known reliable biographer, says he was told by some of Madina dwellers, known as the supporters, that the reason behind their converting to Islam was that they used to hear from the Jews, we were idolaters and they had a Holy Book, they had knowledge that we did not have, there used to be skirmishes between us, if we defeated them, they would threaten us saying' the advent of a new prophet is approximating and we will kill you the same way the nation of Aad and Aram was killed ( in large numbers), this threats were repeated several times in different occasions. When this prophet was sent, we believed in him when he called us to God but they disbelieved." And for this reason the following verse was revealed:

And when there comes to them a Book from Allah, confirming what is with them,- although from of old they had prayed for victory against those without Faith,- when there comes to them that which they (should) have recognised, they refuse to believe in it but the curse of Allah is on those without Faith. (2:89)

Khatada, one of the early scientists, says they Jews used to pray for victory in the name of Mohammed, and when Moahhamed was sent they disbelieved though the prophet was prophesied in their Holy Book because they thought he would be from among them.

The Rabbi ibn Al-Hayban
Short before the Islamic call dawned on the Arab Peninsula, a versatile pious rabbi by the name Ibn Alhyban came from Sham to the city of Madina, the city to which the prophet was destined to emigrate to; he read in the Holy Book that the city of Madina will be the place to which the prophet would emigrate, so he came to dwell in Madina to be among those who would follow and support.

Ibn Ishaq narrates that the leader of Bani Quriza, a chief tribe at that time, said that a rabbi from Sham came to live among us, his name was ibn Al-Hayban, I have never seen a man who perfect his prayer like him, he came to us two years before the advent of the prophet. When there is draught, we used to go to ask him to pray for rain, he would say' I swear I won't do unless you give some alms before you go, we would ask' how much', he says' a measure of dry dates or barley. So we did what he asked. He would take us to the back of the mountain and there we ask for rain under his leadership, no sooner he left his place than rain fell down superfluously, he did twice or thrice.

When he was dying, we gathered around him, he said" O' Jews, do you know what reason made me leave the land of Sham(Sham), the land of welfare to the land of hunger and hardships( Madina).
They said' you know best."
"I emigrated because I expected a prophet to appear and this is his time to appear, this town is the place where he will emigrate to. Believe in him, let nobody else precede you." He died shortly after his words.
When it was the night on which Bani Quryza, a major Jewish tribe at that time, was defeated, three Jews left their fortresses and called the others" O' Jews, we assure you that he is the prophet whom ibn Al- Hyban told you about."
They said" what are your proofs?"
"We swear he is as was described"
And they all embraced Islam

By Magdy Abdalshafy
Source:

http://www.knowmuhammad.org/articles

Abdullah, son of Salam - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

(2.78. And there are among them (Jews) `Ummyyun (unlettered) people, who know not the Book, but they trust upon Amani (false desires) and they but guess.) (79. Then woe to those who write the book with their own hands and then say, "This is from Allah,'' to purchase with it a little price! Woe to them for what their hands have written and woe to them for that they earn thereby.)

(Then Waylun (woe) to those who write the book with their own hands and then say, "This is from Allah,'' to purchase with it a little price!).
This is another category of people among the Jews who called to misguidance with falsehood and lies about Allah, thriving on unjustly amassing people's property.

`Waylun (woe)' carries meanings of destruction and perishing, and it is a well-known word in the Arabic language. Az-Zuhri said that `Ubadydullah bin `Abdullah narrated that Ibn `Abbas said, "O Muslims! How could you ask the People of the Book about anything, while the Book of Allah (Qur'an) that He revealed to His Prophet is the most recent Book from Him and you still read it fresh and young Allah told you that the People of the Book altered the Book of Allah, changed it and wrote another book with their own hands. They then said, `This book is from Allah,' so that they acquired a small profit by it. Hasn't the knowledge that came to you prohibited you from asking them By Allah! We have not seen any of them asking you about what was revealed to you.'' This Hadith was also collected by Al-Bukhari. Al-Hasan Al-Basri said, "The little amount here means this life and all that it contains.''

Allah's statement,

﴿فَوَيْلٌ لَّهُمْ مِّمَّا كَتَبَتْ أَيْدِيهِمْ وَوَيْلٌ لَّهُمْ مِّمَّا يَكْسِبُونَ﴾

(Woe to them for what their hands have written and woe to them for that they earn thereby) means, "Woe to them because of what they have written with their own hands, the lies, falsehood and alterations. Woe to them because of the property that they unjustly acquired.'' Ad-Dahhak said that Ibn `Abbas commented,

﴿فَوَيْلٌ لَّهُمْ﴾

(Woe to them), "Means the torment will be theirs because of the lies that they wrote with their own hands,

﴿وَوَيْلٌ لَّهُمْ مِّمَّا يَكْسِبُونَ﴾

(And woe to them for that they earn thereby), which they unjustly acquired from people, be they commoners or otherwise.''

Tafsir Ibn Kathir - Quran Tafsir

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Muhammad In The Bible
 
ps: one important thing i should point out now is that adhering to the past religions [Christianity or judaism] does not depend on wether their scriptures are reliable enough or not, for the Quran clarifies that it has abrogated these religions and only Islam is valid now:

Allah sent mankind and jinn His prophetic messengers (upon whom be peace), who were trustworthy, intelligent, truthful, and fully conveyed their messages. He protected them from sin, and from every physical trait unbecoming to them, though as human beings, they ate, drank, slept, and married. They were the best of all created beings; and the highest of them was him whom Allah chose to be the final seal of prophethood, our prophet Muhammad (Allah bless him and give him peace).


Though the Sacred Law of the Prophet (Allah bless him and give him peace) superseded all previously valid religious laws, it was identical with them in beliefs, such as tawhid or "oneness of God", and so on, a fact that the Prophet (Allah bless him and give him peace) emphasized by saying, "Let none of you say I am superior to [the prophet] Jonah," (Bukhari, 4.193: 3412), for the illumination of Jonah's tawhid (upon him be peace)--under the darkness of the storm, the darkness of the sea, and the darkness of the belly of the fish--was not less than the illumination of the Prophet's tawhid at the zenith of his success as the spiritual leader of all Arabia (Allah bless him and give him peace).

The light of their message was one, in which sense the Qur'an says, "We do not differentiate between any of His messengers" (Qur'an 2:285), showing that previous religions were the same in beliefs, and though differing in provisions of works, and now abrogated by the final religion, were valid in their own times.

As for today, only Islam is valid or acceptable now that Allah has sent it to all men, for the Prophet (Allah bless him and give him peace) has said,
"By Him in whose hand is the soul of Muhammad, any person of this Community, any Jew, or any Christian who hears of me and dies without believing in what I have been sent with will be an inhabitant of hell" (al-Baghawi: Sharh al-sunna 1.104).​
This hadith was also reported by Muslim in his Sahih by `Abd al-Razzaq in his Musannaf, and others. It is a rigorously authenticated (sahih) evidence that clarifies the word of Allah in surat Al 'Imran
"Whoever seeks a religion other than Islam will never have it accepted from him, and shall be of those who have truly failed in the next life" (Qur'an 3:85)​
and many other verses and hadiths. That Islam is the only remaining valid or acceptable religion ...

Universal Validity of Religions
 
Re: Who is the real Gabriel? or real Islam?

ps: one important thing i should point out now is that adhering to the past religions [Christianity or judaism] does not depend on wether their scriptures are reliable enough or not, for the Quran clarifies that it has abrogated these religions and only Islam is valid now:

Allah sent mankind and jinn His prophetic messengers (upon whom be peace), who were trustworthy, intelligent, truthful, and fully conveyed their messages. He protected them from sin, and from every physical trait unbecoming to them, though as human beings, they ate, drank, slept, and married. They were the best of all created beings; and the highest of them was him whom Allah chose to be the final seal of prophethood, our prophet Muhammad (Allah bless him and give him peace).


Though the Sacred Law of the Prophet (Allah bless him and give him peace) superseded all previously valid religious laws, it was identical with them in beliefs, such as tawhid or "oneness of God", and so on, a fact that the Prophet (Allah bless him and give him peace) emphasized by saying, "Let none of you say I am superior to [the prophet] Jonah," (Bukhari, 4.193: 3412), for the illumination of Jonah's tawhid (upon him be peace)--under the darkness of the storm, the darkness of the sea, and the darkness of the belly of the fish--was not less than the illumination of the Prophet's tawhid at the zenith of his success as the spiritual leader of all Arabia (Allah bless him and give him peace).

The light of their message was one, in which sense the Qur'an says, "We do not differentiate between any of His messengers" (Qur'an 2:285), showing that previous religions were the same in beliefs, and though differing in provisions of works, and now abrogated by the final religion, were valid in their own times.

As for today, only Islam is valid or acceptable now that Allah has sent it to all men, for the Prophet (Allah bless him and give him peace) has said,
"By Him in whose hand is the soul of Muhammad, any person of this Community, any Jew, or any Christian who hears of me and dies without believing in what I have been sent with will be an inhabitant of hell" (al-Baghawi: Sharh al-sunna 1.104).​
This hadith was also reported by Muslim in his Sahih by `Abd al-Razzaq in his Musannaf, and others. It is a rigorously authenticated (sahih) evidence that clarifies the word of Allah in surat Al 'Imran
"Whoever seeks a religion other than Islam will never have it accepted from him, and shall be of those who have truly failed in the next life" (Qur'an 3:85)​
and many other verses and hadiths. That Islam is the only remaining valid or acceptable religion ...

Universal Validity of Religions

Abrogation in Islam abrogated itself as well and applies to Islam only Christianity do not recognize Islam abrogation rule or law for Jesus Christ never abrogated humanity, Jesus Christ came to save us all but most of all in Jesus Christ all humanity are children of God.

Prominent Muslim scholars and intellectuals have been silence and persecuted for their research about Islam that contradicts the establish mainstream Islam. Many of these intellectuals have to live a life of exile and threat protected by Western authorities.

Dr. Nasr Abu Zayd

Dr. Ahmed Sohby Mansour

Nobel laureate Naguib Mahfouz was stabbed in the neck by an Islamist in 1994, leaving him incapable of using his hand to write

Atif al-Iraqi

Ragaa al-Naqash

Mahmoud al-Tohami,

Youssef Chahine
 
Re: Who is the real Gabriel? or real Islam?

Abrogation in Islam abrogated itself as well.


The common notion of abrogation, that is, canceling of one law or code by another, is based on the idea that a new law is needed because of a mistake or shortcoming in the previous one. It is clearly inappropriate to ascribe a mistake in law-making to God, Who is perfect, and whose creation admit of no flaws.

However, in the Quran, the abrogating verses mark the end of the validity of the abrogated verses because their heed and effect was of a temporary or limited nature. In time the new law appears and announces the end of the validity of the earlier law. Considering that Quran was revealed over a period of twenty-three years in ever-changing circumstances, it is not difficult to imagine the necessity of such laws.
It is in this light that we should regard the wisdom of abrogation within the Quran:

"And when we put a revelation in place of (another) revelation and Allah knows best what He reveals -- they say: you are just inventing it. Most of them do not know. Say: The Holy Spirit (Gibril) has revealed it from your hand with truth and as a guidance and good news for those who have surrendered (to God)" [16:101-102]

Ulum al Qur'an - AL-NASIKH WA AL-MANSUKH- SunniPath Library - Books
 
abrogation is easy to understand when one considers the mercy behind it; Islam got revealed gradually over 23 years, and ALlah let the people gradually get used to divine rules; thus some were abrogated for others; also it is a sign of Allah's mercy where Allah abrogates one rule for a better rule, and there are only a few abrogated verses, and most of the verses in the Quran are merely put into context; this is the case with peace and war verses


... However, as mentioned there remain a small number of verses which, as far as can be ascertained from the internal evidence of the Qur'an, have been superseded by other verses in the Qur'an.

Ulum al Qur'an - AL-NASIKH WA AL-MANSUKH- SunniPath Library - Books
 
Re: Who is the real Gabriel? or real Islam?

The common notion of abrogation, that is, canceling of one law or code by another, is based on the idea that a new law is needed because of a mistake or shortcoming in the previous one. It is clearly inappropriate to ascribe a mistake in law-making to God, Who is perfect, and whose creation admit of no flaws.

However, in the Quran, the abrogating verses mark the end of the validity of the abrogated verses because their heed and effect was of a temporary or limited nature. In time the new law appears and announces the end of the validity of the earlier law. Considering that Quran was revealed over a period of twenty-three years in ever-changing circumstances, it is not difficult to imagine the necessity of such laws.
It is in this light that we should regard the wisdom of abrogation within the Quran:

"And when we put a revelation in place of (another) revelation and Allah knows best what He reveals -- they say: you are just inventing it. Most of them do not know. Say: The Holy Spirit (Gibril) has revealed it from your hand with truth and as a guidance and good news for those who have surrendered (to God)" [16:101-102]

Ulum al Qur'an - AL-NASIKH WA AL-MANSUKH- SunniPath Library - Books
In other words, abrogation in Islam is okay but that the Bible that is base on original transcript is not okay.

100 Influential Voices from the Arab World: Nasr Hamid Abu Zayd - IjtihadReason.org

Dr. Abu Zayd comcludes:
[Abu Zayd] concludes his research on the dilemmas of tradition in contemporary consciousness by exploring three currents: The first current's adherents believe that we live in an era that is entirely disconnected from the past and its elements, which cannot tackle today's concerns. Proponents of the second current advocate the opposite. To them "Islam is the solution" and tradition remains a divine achievement that must be revived. The third current is a reconciliatory project carried out by the Islamist movement. This project ends up acquitting ideas from various sources, thus becoming void of substance and futile.
–Muhammad al-Sururi, "An inquiry into Nasr Hamid Abu Zayd's philosophy of discourse and extrapolation," Dar Al Hayat, November 1, 2008

Arguing that Islam's holy texts should be interpreted in the historical and linguistic context of their time, and that new interpretations should account for social change. His controversial claim that the Qur'an be interpreted metaphorically rather than literally further enraged fundamentalists. Labeled an apostate by the Cairo court of appeals, his life was threatened and he was forced to flee to the Netherlands with his wife. A professor of Arabic and Islamic studies at Leiden University in his adopted country, this progressive Islamic scholar insists that change is still possible and that new understandings of Islam can be accepted and advanced.
 
I may be really, really off-base here. But it would seem you two will forever be talking past each other as long as you hold to exclusivity and inerrancy. If one holds that one has "The One Truth" it is hard to see things objectively (or at least admit there are multiple possibilities).

If we discuss religion (that which is shared across Religions) in terms of Religious Dogma ("I am right and you are wrong") the chasm between groups can never be bridged. If instead one adopts an attitude of intersubjectivism, whereby we can discuss, say, the differences between the Abrahamic Religions (in terms of ethics or philosophy or metaphysics or contextual or textual criticism) and at the same time know (within our individual hearts) that the discussion does not threaten our core beliefs, we might get somewhere.
.
Anyway, that is my opinion.
 
I may be really, really off-base here. But it would seem you two will forever be talking past each other as long as you hold to exclusivity and inerrancy. If one holds that one has "The One Truth" it is hard to see things objectively (or at least admit there are multiple possibilities).

If we discuss religion (that which is shared across Religions) in terms of Religious Dogma ("I am right and you are wrong") the chasm between groups can never be bridged. If instead one adopts an attitude of intersubjectivism, whereby we can discuss, say, the differences between the Abrahamic Religions (in terms of ethics or philosophy or metaphysics or contextual or textual criticism) and at the same time know (within our individual hearts) that the discussion does not threaten our core beliefs, we might get somewhere.
.
Anyway, that is my opinion.

Maybe it is because we accept decent and criticism while Muslim authorities don't thus limiting the access to the truth about Islam and at the same time we see supposedly academic learn Muslims seem to be agreeing with the establish Islamic authorities instead of learning about the truth.

Here is an honest inquiry, how many verses have been abrogated or cancelled? THis way we can concentrate to discuss on verses that are still valid and not waste time on verses that have no more significance because they have been abrogated.
 
Maybe it is because we accept decent and criticism while Muslim authorities don't thus limiting the access to the truth about Islam and at the same time we see supposedly academic learn Muslims seem to be agreeing with the establish Islamic authorities instead of learning about the truth.

Here is an honest inquiry, how many verses have been abrogated or cancelled? THis way we can concentrate to discuss on verses that are still valid and not waste time on verses that have no more significance because they have been abrogated.


there are only a few as that article said, it gives examples of some abrogated verses; see link above; the wisdoms of abrogation can be gleaned from them too, for example in one verse Allah says 20 beleivers is enough for two hundred desbelievers [to fight], but then Allah abrogated that with one believer enough for two desbelievers; the former could have been to influence the Muslims to have that very high level of faith and dependence on Allah, and a lot of the companions of the Prophet [saw] did have that; in one incident about ten thousand Muslims took on two hundred thousand byzantines, and Khalid bin Walid charged a large group of desbeleiving army on his own!; as he got near them the desbelievers immediately surrendered!; when he asked why they did so, they said they saw the cloud in the sky rush towards them as if to attack them or something [basically Allah struck terror in their hearts due to the highly faithfull and courageous action of a Muslim]

the abrogation could have happened once things became more 'relaxed' and Islam became firmly established!
Narrated Ibn 'Abbas: When the verse: 'If there are 20 amongst you, patient and persevering, they will overcome two hundred', was revealed, it became hard on the Muslims, when it became compulsory that one Muslim ought not to flee before 10 (non-Muslims) so Allah lightened the order by revealing: 'but now Allah has lightened your (task) for He knows that there is weakness in you. But (even so) if there are 100 amongst you who are patient and persevering, they will overcome 200 (non-Muslims)' (8: 66).

So when Allah reduced the number of enemies that Muslims should withstand, their patience and perseverence against the enemy decreased as much as their task was lightened for them. [Bukhari, VI, No.176.]
 
there are only a few as that article said, it gives examples of some abrogated verses; see link above; the wisdoms of abrogation can be gleaned from them too, for example in one verse Allah says 20 beleivers is enough for two hundred desbelievers [to fight], but then Allah abrogated that with one believer enough for two desbelievers; the former could have been to influence the Muslims to have that very high level of faith and dependence on Allah, and a lot of the companions of the Prophet [saw] did have that; in one incident about ten thousand Muslims took on two hundred thousand byzantines, and Khalid bin Walid charged a large group of desbeleiving army on his own!; as he got near them the desbelievers immediately surrendered!; when he asked why they did so, they said they saw the cloud in the sky rush towards them as if to attack them or something [basically Allah struck terror in their hearts due to the highly faithfull and courageous action of a Muslim]

the abrogation could have happened once things became more 'relaxed' and Islam became firmly established!
Narrated Ibn 'Abbas: When the verse: 'If there are 20 amongst you, patient and persevering, they will overcome two hundred', was revealed, it became hard on the Muslims, when it became compulsory that one Muslim ought not to flee before 10 (non-Muslims) so Allah lightened the order by revealing: 'but now Allah has lightened your (task) for He knows that there is weakness in you. But (even so) if there are 100 amongst you who are patient and persevering, they will overcome 200 (non-Muslims)' (8: 66).

So when Allah reduced the number of enemies that Muslims should withstand, their patience and perseverence against the enemy decreased as much as their task was lightened for them. [Bukhari, VI, No.176.]

That is interesting, so why are abrogated verses still included in the Quran? or why are those abrogated and abrogating verses do not have foot notes to let readers know?

These are a list of abrogated and abrogating verses it seem to be more than a few:
List of Abrogations in the Qur'an - WikiIslam

The Abrogated Verses
The Abrogated Verses

There are, according to Ibn Salama, [Op cit., see pp.6-8 for the names of these suras.] a well-known author on the subject:

43 suras with neither nasikh or mansukh.

6 suras with nasikh but no mansukh.

40 suras with mansukh but no nasikh.

25 suras with both nasikh and mansukh.

According to Suyuti's Itqan there are 21 instances in the Qur'an, where a revelation has been abrogated by another.

He also indicates that there is a difference of opinion about some of these: e.g. 4: 8, 24: 58, etc. [Itqan, II, pp.20-3; Kamal, op.cit., pp.101-9 also gives Suyuti's complete list.]

Some scholars have attempted to reduce the number of abrogations in the Qur'an even further, by explaining the relationships between the verses in some special ways, e.g. by pointing out that no legal abrogation is involved, or that for certain reasons the naskh is not genuine

Shah Waliullah (d. 1759) the great Muslim scholar from India only retained the following 5 out of Suyuti's 21 cases as genuine:

Mansukh 2: 180 nasikh 4: 11, 12
Mansukh 2:240 nasikh 2: 234.
Mansukh 8:65 nasikh 8: 62.
Mansukh 30:50 nasikh 33: 52.
Mansukh 58: 12 nasikh 58: 13.

Example: How can we reconcile these verses from contradicting verses, according to Muslim rule, the later verses abrogate the earlier verse.
Sura 2:190 And fight in the way of Allah with those who fight with you, and do not exceed the limits, surely Allah does not love those who exceed the limits. Is consider abrogated by Sura 9:5 and 9:36 Surely the number of months with Allah is twelve months in Allah's ordinance since the day when He created the heavens and the earth, of these four being sacred; that is the right reckoning; therefore be not unjust to yourselves regarding them, and fight the polytheists all together as they fight you all together; and know that Allah is with those who guard (against evil).

Sura 2:256 There is no compulsion in religion; truly the right way has become clearly distinct from error; therefore, whoever disbelieves in the Shaitan and believes in Allah he indeed has laid hold on the firmest handle, which shall not break off, and Allah is Hearing, Knowing.

Is this verse abrogated by Sura 9:29 "Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued"
Sura 9:5 "Slay the idolaters wherever ye find them, and take them captive, and besiege them, and prepare for them each ambush. But if they repent and establish worship and pay the poor-due, then leave their way free. Lo! Allah is Forgiving, Merciful." ?

There seem to be a conflict between Sura 2:256 and Sura 9:5, Sura 2:256 recognize equal religion, no compulsion a Christian can be Christian without fear from Muslim same with Jews. But Sura 9:5 seem to contradict that.
 
That is interesting, so why are abrogated verses still included in the Quran? or why are those abrogated and abrogating verses do not have foot notes to let readers know?


they are still included as they have been revealed as part of the Quran; the Quran shows how Allah abrogates one rule for a better rule, and also, given their wisdom, that in the space of 23 years, while getting people used to the rules and perfecting the religion, some rules were only for a temporary period; there is nothing contradictory or unwise about that, thus it all fits in with the beuty and perfection of the Quranic guidance

the 'footnotes' can be gleaned from verses being revealed at a later date that apperantly abrogates a former verse, and the confirmation and 'small print' will basically be in the external interpetation, i.e the sunnah and hadiths


These are a list of abrogated and abrogating verses it seem to be more than a few:
List of Abrogations in the Qur'an - WikiIslam

The Abrogated Verses


well if you read that link, there are some abrogted verses that scholars disagree upon, for example, not even all scholars apperantly accept the one i listed above, but what is absolutely certain is for a small number of verses; and with all the one's that sunni scholars agree on or disagree with, yet they remain relatively small in number; they could number something between 5 and 10

wikiIslam is an anti Islam site thus is not trustworthy

And i suppose your most worried about or concerned with the peace verses which were revealed in Makkah, or rather no war verses being revealed in Makkah, and later in Madinah order was given to fight back

well no scholar says that any of them verses were abrogated; rather Allah in his wisdom allowed the Muslim community to grow and strengthen before he ordered a fight back against the opressors

there are many verses when put into context can be seen that fighting is allowed only with an attacking enemy force
 
=Abdullah;261896]they are still included as they have been revealed as part of the Quran; the Quran shows how Allah abrogates one rule for a better rule, and also, given their wisdom, that in the space of 23 years, while getting people used to the rules and perfecting the religion, some rules were only for a temporary period; there is nothing contradictory or unwise about that, thus it all fits in with the beuty and perfection of the Quranic guidance

How can Sura 9:29 (Fight against such of those who have been given the Scripture as believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, and forbid not that which Allah hath forbidden by His messenger, and follow not the Religion of Truth, until they pay the tribute readily, being brought low) And Sura 9:5? (Then, when the sacred months have passed, slay the idolaters wherever ye find them, and take them (captive), and besiege them, and prepare for them each ambush.But if they repent and establish worship and pay the poor-due, then leave their way free. Lo! Allah is Forgiving, Mercifu)l. Be a better rule than Sura 2:256? (There shall be no compulsion in [acceptance of] the religion. The right course has become clear from the wrong. So whoever disbelieves in Taghut and believes in Allah has grasped the most trustworthy handhold with no break in it. And Allah is Hearing and Knowing. And Sura 18:29 (And say, "The truth is from your Lord, so whoever wills - let him believe; and whoever wills - let him disbelieve." Indeed, We have prepared for the wrongdoers a fire whose walls will surround them. And if they call for relief, they will be relieved with water like murky oil, which scalds [their] faces. Wretched is the drink, and evil is the resting place).

At the same time Sura 9:5 and 9:29 would seem to contradicts Sura 10:37 (And this Qur'an is not such as could ever be invented in despite of Allah; but it is a confirmation of that which was before it and an exposition of that which is decreed for mankind - Therein is no doubt - from the Lord of the Worlds). Sura 10:94 (If thou wert in doubt as to what We have revealed unto thee, then ask those who have been reading the Book from before thee: the Truth hath indeed come to thee from thy Lord: so be in no wise of those in doubt)?

Sura 10:37 and 10:94 are advising Mohammed or Muslims to consult the people of the book, who are the people of the book? It is understood to be the Christians and Jews. And what was the book that Mohammed needs to confirm the revelation to? it is understood to be either and or the Bible or Torah because there is no other holy books before that unless Allah is referring to some other books that we are not aware of? Why would Allah be so harsh to the people of the book in Sura 9:5 and 9:29 compare to Sura 10:37, 10:94; 2:256 and 18:29?

Kabaa used to be open to Christians and Jews because they all worship Abraham's One God but Mohammed change that in Sura 9

If there is nothing contradicting then technically there should be no need for abrogation? IMO, it is becoming more of an imperfection rather than perfection.


the 'footnotes' can be gleaned from verses being revealed at a later date that apperantly abrogates a former verse, and the confirmation and 'small print' will basically be in the external interpetation, i.e the sunnah and hadiths

Honestly, it really is looking more like a hot pot of eat all you can, readers will not be able to identify none abrogated verses from abrogating verses and by the time they get to an external source they might become more confuse. A book that is supposed to be simple and straight forward has become more complicated than the Bible. That is why we have one group of Muslims following the Sura 9 and one group following the earlier verses.


well if you read that link, there are some abrogted verses that scholars disagree upon, for example, not even all scholars apperantly accept the one i listed above, but what is absolutely certain is for a small number of verses; and with all the one's that sunni scholars agree on or disagree with, yet they remain relatively small in number; they could number something between 5 and 10

IMO, the problem is there is no single authority in Islamic body that is in position to officially say what verse is what even in interpretation each Muslim and Iman are given the liberty to interpret the Quran the way they see fit and what is happening is some Imans may have different view with other Imans in regard to what is abrogated and what is not. But if we are to do a concise scientific textual study and research the verses carefully there will be 50+ verses that are abrogatable. Just like you have your own interpretation too.

wikiIslam is an anti Islam site thus is not trustworthy

And i suppose your most worried about or concerned with the peace verses which were revealed in Makkah, or rather no war verses being revealed in Makkah, and later in Madinah order was given to fight back

well no scholar says that any of them verses were abrogated; rather Allah in his wisdom allowed the Muslim community to grow and strengthen before he ordered a fight back against the opressors

there are many verses when put into context can be seen that fighting is allowed only with an attacking enemy force

Who are the oppressors? Historically after Mohammed got the Meccans and after his wife Khadija died his attitude turn from peaceful, none aggressive to aggression no longer was it conversion through peaceful means it turn into conversion by force, Mohammed also become a change man he started to practice polygamy and made revelations to justify that. In Sura 9 it narrates Mohammed’s expedition to cease Tabuk region from the Byzantine, the Byzantine were not even aware of Mohammed they were busy fighting the Persians, until Mohammed led an army of about 40,000 to Tabuk and annex it provoking a war with the Byzantine.

How do you differantiate the Afghan War against Russia & current war of Talibans against PAK USA? - YouTube

If we look at the Iman's explanation that according to him the Taliban, al Qaeda and other Islamic extremist groups are not fighting in self defence and that Afghan -Soviet war that was self defence.
 
How can Sura 9:29 (Fight against such of those who have been given the Scripture as believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, and forbid not that which Allah hath forbidden by His messenger, and follow not the Religion of Truth, until they pay the tribute readily, being brought low) And Sura 9:5? (Then, when the sacred months have passed, slay the idolaters wherever ye find them, and take them (captive), and besiege them, and prepare for them each ambush.But if they repent and establish worship and pay the poor-due, then leave their way free. Lo! Allah is Forgiving, Mercifu)l. Be a better rule than Sura 2:256? (There shall be no compulsion in [acceptance of] the religion. The right course has become clear from the wrong. So whoever disbelieves in Taghut and believes in Allah has grasped the most trustworthy handhold with no break in it. And Allah is Hearing and Knowing. And Sura 18:29 (And say, "The truth is from your Lord, so whoever wills - let him believe; and whoever wills - let him disbelieve." Indeed, We have prepared for the wrongdoers a fire whose walls will surround them. And if they call for relief, they will be relieved with water like murky oil, which scalds [their] faces. Wretched is the drink, and evil is the resting place).

At the same time Sura 9:5 and 9:29 would seem to contradicts Sura 10:37 (And this Qur'an is not such as could ever be invented in despite of Allah; but it is a confirmation of that which was before it and an exposition of that which is decreed for mankind - Therein is no doubt - from the Lord of the Worlds). Sura 10:94 (If thou wert in doubt as to what We have revealed unto thee, then ask those who have been reading the Book from before thee: the Truth hath indeed come to thee from thy Lord: so be in no wise of those in doubt)?

Sura 10:37 and 10:94 are advising Mohammed or Muslims to consult the people of the book, who are the people of the book? It is understood to be the Christians and Jews. And what was the book that Mohammed needs to confirm the revelation to? it is understood to be either and or the Bible or Torah because there is no other holy books before that unless Allah is referring to some other books that we are not aware of? Why would Allah be so harsh to the people of the book in Sura 9:5 and 9:29 compare to Sura 10:37, 10:94; 2:256 and 18:29?

Kabaa used to be open to Christians and Jews because they all worship Abraham's One God but Mohammed change that in Sura 9

If there is nothing contradicting then technically there should be no need for abrogation? IMO, it is becoming more of an imperfection rather than perfection.

Honestly, it really is looking more like a hot pot of eat all you can, readers will not be able to identify none abrogated verses from abrogating verses and by the time they get to an external source they might become more confuse. A book that is supposed to be simple and straight forward has become more complicated than the Bible. That is why we have one group of Muslims following the Sura 9 and one group following the earlier verses.




IMO, the problem is there is no single authority in Islamic body that is in position to officially say what verse is what even in interpretation each Muslim and Iman are given the liberty to interpret the Quran the way they see fit and what is happening is some Imans may have different view with other Imans in regard to what is abrogated and what is not. But if we are to do a concise scientific textual study and research the verses carefully there will be 50+ verses that are abrogatable. Just like you have your own interpretation too.

Who are the oppressors? Historically after Mohammed got the Meccans and after his wife Khadija died his attitude turn from peaceful, none aggressive to aggression no longer was it conversion through peaceful means it turn into conversion by force, Mohammed also become a change man he started to practice polygamy and made revelations to justify that. In Sura 9 it narrates Mohammed’s expedition to cease Tabuk region from the Byzantine, the Byzantine were not even aware of Mohammed they were busy fighting the Persians, until Mohammed led an army of about 40,000 to Tabuk and annex it provoking a war with the Byzantine.

How do you differantiate the Afghan War against Russia & current war of Talibans against PAK USA? - YouTube

If we look at the Iman's explanation that according to him the Taliban, al Qaeda and other Islamic extremist groups are not fighting in self defence and that Afghan -Soviet war that was self defence.


Oh my dear Gaby

so you think the meanings of those verses that catholic site or other hate sites have told you is the truth do you?; how comes you havn't even asked Muslims yet as to their real meanings and contexts?

there are many verses when put into context can be seen that fighting is allowed only with an attacking enemy force
 
As an outsider to this conversation, I must admit Abdullah is making me question my Christianity. I read clear, reasoned, validated arguments (I can look up the data in other places) on one side and nothing substantive on the other. Just my take.
 
Oh my dear Gaby

so you think the meanings of those verses that catholic site or other hate sites have told you is the truth do you?; how comes you havn't even asked Muslims yet as to their real meanings and contexts?

there are many verses when put into context can be seen that fighting is allowed only with an attacking enemy force

That is true and at the same time if you do a historical research as to when and why those verses were reveal was base on Muslim wars with the Meccans, anti Christian, anti Jews, and expanding Islam into Byzantine territories. Changing the complexity or nature of earlier revelation of none violence to militancy or aggressiveness.

It is very ironic that Muslims will always claim that informations about Sura 9 and its contents that Islamic extremist have clearly been using as a reason to wage war or attack us as hate sites or anti-Islam. At the same time, other Muslims maybe such as you have not been able to step forward to speak or explain why those extremist are using Sura 9, why are there so many extremist, why Muslims (such as you) are not able to educate those extremist that they are wrong, and why is it that we are wrong, are you saying that those extremist are justify in attacking us and other Muslims who do not agree with their ideology?

Muslims always claim that the Quran means what it means and yet when we bring it to their attention the conflict between the early Sura such as 2:256 or from year 610 - 620AD and 621 - 632 AD they accuse us of being anti Islam.

If Muslims will seriously research their own history including analysing the text no where was it written or reveal to Mohammed by Allah to write a book, Allah was very clear READ and when Jibril learn and could not make Mohammed read he instructed him to RECITE. That was follow up with CONFIRM with the people of the book. It is clear that there already existed a book that book is the Bible.

No where did Allah told say to disrespect or brutalise the Bible.

If you pay attention also, from 610 - 620AD Christians and Jews were allowed to enter the Kabaa. It was only after the Jews and Christians refuse to join Mohammed to fight the Meccans from 625 - 628 that Mohammed came up with revelations that ban them from the Kabaa. Those Christian, heretical they maybe they do not believe in war as a form of religion just like the contemporary Christians in today's term that is called "concencious objector".

Muslims should spend serious time to analyse why Mohammed's revelations differs greatly between 610 - 620AD compare to 621 -632 AD (his death).

IMO all the accusation that we are anti Islam for doing our research are just smoke screen. Too many Muslims who have done serious research and spoke about it has been either punish, or silence.

That is why I am having difficulty in understanding Muslims, I have no difficulty in understanding Islam and its history.

Radamark: As an outsider to this conversation, I must admit Abdullah is making me question my Christianity. I read clear, reasoned, validated arguments (I can look up the data in other places) on one side and nothing substantive on the other. Just my take.

Its a free society there is no compulsion to be a Christian. Just make sure that you do your research with an open mind and spirit before you decide to convert to Islam because once you convert to Islam it is not easy to leave Islam.

"Though faith is above reason, there can never be any real discrepancy between faith and reason. Since the same God who reveals mysteries and infuses faith has bestowed the light of reason on the human mind, God cannot deny himself, nor can truth ever contradict truth" (Catechism of the Catholic Church 159).
 
The Catholic means “Universal” church since the time of the Apostles have took to task to safe guard, preserve and interpret the Words of God as written in the Holy Bible with due diligence, serenity, wisdom and courage guided by the Holy Spirit, they spend their entire adult life dedicated to this task in fulfillment of the Gospel:

Matthew 16:18 -19 18And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. 19And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

John 14: 16 – 26 26But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

John 20:21 21Then said Jesus to them again, Peace be unto you: as my Father hath sent me, even so send I you.


They made sure that the Bible remains pure and true and not get corrupted:

Exodus 32:7 -8 7And the LORD said unto Moses, Go, get thee down; for thy people, which thou broughtest out of the land of Egypt, have corrupted themselves:
8They have turned aside quickly out of the way which I commanded them: they have made them a molten calf, and have worshipped it, and have sacrificed thereunto, and said, These be thy gods, O Israel, which have brought thee up out of the land of Egypt.


Exodus 17:14 Then the LORD said to Moses, "Write this on a scroll as something to be remembered and make sure that Joshua hears it, because I will completely blot out the memory of Amalek from under heaven." Exodus 34:1 1And the LORD said unto Moses, Hew thee two tables of stone like unto the first: and I will write upon these tables the words that were in the first tables, which thou brakest.

The Catholic church under St. Peter was very united in One Christ One God there was never a question about Jesus Christ true nature as the Son of God and the Redeemer of the world. It would be after all the Apostles, Paul and all the 1st generation Catholic Christians have died that succeeding generations have started to move away from the Catholic church in 150 AD, heretical Christians try to change the fabric of the Catholic church and when they could not succeed the started to re and misinterpret the Bible changing the very nature of Jesus Christ from God to man.

Several Catholic church leaders such as St. Ignatius of Antioch, St. Justin Martyr, St. Irenaeus bishop of Lyons, St. Cyril of Jerusalem and many others work hard against the heretics appealing to their spiritual senses with little success. Eventually the heretical Christians will spread all over the Middle East and Holy Land and their doctrine in 610 AD will become the basis of Islam.

Just like the founding fathers of the USA when they formulated, drafted and approve the US Constitution they made sure that the constitution will be protected and interpreted accordingly that is why they have the US Supreme court to safe guard the interpretation of the US constitution. The same with Islam as Islam progresses, Muslim leaders will make sure that the interpretation of the Quran is interpreted according to its context they assign Muslim scholars to do just that with the Hadith, Sunna and other personal text from recognize Muslim Imans that expands the meaning of the Quran.

The success of the early Catholic church fathers to preserve the Bible will unfortunately be use by its enemies as well the many heretical Christian sects that mushroom between 200 AD – 700 AD, Islam in 610 AD and the Protestant reformation in the 1500s even Martin Luther affirms that the early church fathers do it a good job in preserving the doctrine and taught the Real Presence. Islam in their Quran would mention several times about consulting with the book (Bible) as well. But because Muslims lack the presence and guidance of the Holy Spirit they failed to grasp the true meanings of Allah’s revelation to Mohammed.

If Allah’s intention was to reveal a whole new scripture because the old revelation has been corrupted, Allah would not have told Mohammed to consult the people of the book because they are supposedly already using a corrupted book. Plus why would Allah, ask Mohammed if “he is in doubt” meaning if Mohammed is in doubt? Does Allah not trust or is in doubt of Mohammed or Allah doubt his own revelation? Allah would have said “do not doubt me” just like what Allah has told Abraham Genesis 18:10 -14 and to Moses, Number 20:12 But the LORD said to Moses and Aaron, "Because you did not trust in me enough to honor me as holy in the sight of the Israelites, you will not bring this community into the land I give them."

Exodus 14; 15 Then the LORD said to Moses, "Why are you crying out to me? Tell the Israelites to move on.

Matthew 11:1 -7, John 20:24 – 29,
James 1:5 – 8 If any of you lacks wisdom, he should ask God, who gives generously to all without finding fault, and it will be given to him. But when he asks, he must believe and not doubt, because he who doubts is like a wave of the sea, blown and tossed by the wind. That man should not think he will receive anything from the Lord; he is a double-minded man, unstable in all he does.


The Bible has been very clear if in doubt pray to God and do not doubt God if He himself or His angel appear to you to reveal His words.
 
Gab, i'll give you the benifit of the doubt that you are genuinely mislead by that site for its a catholic site and you obviously think they have the truth

however i cant do the same for the site itself for any tom dick and harry should know about propaganda, thus if that site was serious about finding the truth about Islam, all they had to do was ask muslims rather than buy bush's story hook line and sinker

85- 90 percent of muslims agree on the mainstream interpetation where jihad is fought only in defense, so do the rest of the muslims, however only al-qaida believe that civillians of the enemy can be targeted in return for muslim civillians being targeted

how anyone could fail to know the latter beats me for al-qaida's videos explaining why they target american civillians have been on the mainstream news channel too

you keep on saying 'i cant understand how verse.. can be compatiable with verses ..

all you had to do was ask mate ;)

here is the ultimate 'war and peace' verse which all such verses are put into context with;

Surah Mumtahina verses 8-9:
8 Allah forbids you not with regard to those, who fight you not for (your) Faith, nor drive you out of your homes, from dealing kindly and justly with them: for Allah loveth those who are just.
9 Allah only forbids you with regard to those, who fight you for (your) Faith, and drive you out of your homes and support (others) in driving you out, from turning to them (for friendship and protection). It is such as turn to them (in these circumstances) that do wrong.


and so much for 'war verses being revealed near the prophets [saw] death'; have you not read that shortly before his death he got into a peace treaty with the makkan desbelievers?, with a seemingly favourable terms for the Makkans while not so favourable for the muslims?; this goes to show that Muslims are to try live in peace with whomever they can, even under unfair agreements

religion indeed is not forced upon anyone in Islam as verse 2:256 stipulates and 9:29 only refers to the just laws being implemented in place of the opressive ones of the belligerents who have succombed to muslims power
 
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