T
True Gabriel
Guest
The information that the Catholic or none Catholic site got are sources from Muslims and Arab historians such as Ibn Ishaq/Hisham and base on actual current events. It is good to know that there are some real Muslims such as you who teaches differently from those Muslim extremist. Hopefully that you would educate those Muslims that seem to be teaching a different kind of Islam, an Islam of intolerant and hate.
85 – 90% that is a large number it would be nice to see that many numbers of Muslims or at least 50% of that will have the will to stop or educate the other 10% of Muslims from wrecking havoc both against Muslims and none Muslims.
Maybe it is because 85% of Muslims believe in the propaganda or interpretation of Islam by al Qaeda that the USA and the West are the enemies?
you keep on saying 'i cant understand how verse.. can be compatiable with verses ..
all you had to do was ask mate
here is the ultimate 'war and peace' verse which all such verses are put into context with;
That is what I have been doing asking, how can it be compatible?
I did read that part not only the verse but the history behind it. And if I am not mistaken one of the treaty provision is that any Muslim that choose to convert to Mecca religion or life style are allowed to do so and will not be permitted to return to Medina or Muslim. On the other hand Meccans are not allowed to convert to Muslim any one that left Mecca will be return to them. Strangely, after the Meccans were finally defeated and converted to Muslim, this provision would be adapted by Muslim against their none Muslim subjects which is; those none Muslims will not be allowed to expand or proselytize Muslim but Muslims will be allowed to proselytize the none Muslim.
As far as breaking of the treaty it would seem that Mohammed was also culpable for the collapse of the treaty when he refused to return a Meccan who converted to Muslim back to Macca as agreed upon by the treaty. And it would seem that it was the Meccans who have been exerting extra efforts to avoid any war.
The leader at Mecca was a man named Abu Sufyan. Anticipating that the Muslims might look for an excuse to attack his people, Abu Sufyan traveled to Medina to engage Muhammad in dialogue for the purpose of assuring peace between the two parties. Ibn Ishaq/Hisham 807 details the poor man’s efforts to see the Muslim leader in a long passage that plainly indicates his mounting desperation for peace.
It is during this visit that Abu Sufyan enters the homes of a number of prominent Muslims, including Muhammad’s son-in-law and daughter. Clearly he is not interested in harming them. In the end, Abu Sufyan is rebuffed by Muhammad and does not gain the opportunity to talk peace. The prophet of Islam is more interested in a surprise attack on Mecca:
[Muhammad] said, “Oh Allah, take eyes and ears from the Quraysh [Mecca] so that we may take them by surprise in their land,” and the men got themselves ready. (Ibn Ishaq/Hisham 808)
In that the other Meccans had no idea that they were supposed to be at war with the Muslims, Muhammad was entirely successful:
When the apostle had reached Marr al-Azhran, [the] Quraysh were completely ignorant of the fact and did not even know what he was doing. (Ibn Ishaq/Hisham 811).
http://www.cmje.org/religious-texts/hadith/bukhari/052-sbt.php#004.052.269
You seem to be a scholarly person in Islam, since the Quranic verses are not arrange chronologically if you separate Mohammed’s revelations from 610 – 620 AD (Old Quran) from 621 -632 AD (New Quran), I believe you will notice that during 610 -620 AD there were no revelations banning Jews and Christians to worship inside the Kabaa, also the revelations of 610 -620 AD were very none violent, conversion by peaceful persuasion in other words very similar to Christian concept of none violence. After the death of Khadija and Mohammed’s relocating to Medina in 622 AD, Mohammed became a change man, he become a polygamous person, his revelations from 622 – 632 AD became more militant, vindictive and aggressive worse it became anti Christian and anti Jews that ban them from worshipping in the Kabaa.
The reason Mohammed became anti Christian and anti Jew was according to historians was that many of the Christian and Jewish tribes refuse to follow Mohammed in fighting the Meccans. Could it be that those Christians and Jews because of their none violence beliefs were “concencious objectors”?
At the same time if we read the Quran we will find that Allah mention several times to consult the book, confirm with the book, Allah never command to write a new book. It would seem that Allah is commanding the people to start reading the Torah and or the Bible and not about writing a new book. Allah talk a lot about the book that was already revealed.
Sura 10:94 If thou wert in doubt as to what We have revealed unto thee, then ask those who have been reading the Book from before thee: the Truth hath indeed come to thee from thy Lord: so be in no wise of those in doubt.
Sura 5:44 – 47 Indeed, We sent down the Torah, in which was guidance and light. The prophets who submitted [to Allah ] judged by it for the Jews, as did the rabbis and scholars by that with which they were entrusted of the Scripture of Allah , and they were witnesses thereto. So do not fear the people but fear Me, and do not exchange My verses for a small price. And whoever does not judge by what Allah has revealed - then it is those who are the disbelievers.
45 And We ordained for them therein a life for a life, an eye for an eye, a nose for a nose, an ear for an ear, a tooth for a tooth, and for wounds is legal retribution. But whoever gives [up his right as] charity, it is an expiation for him. And whoever does not judge by what Allah has revealed - then it is those who are the wrongdoers.
46 And We sent, following in their footsteps, Jesus, the son of Mary, confirming that which came before him in the Torah; and We gave him the Gospel, in which was guidance and light and confirming that which preceded it of the Torah as guidance and instruction for the righteous.
47 And let the People of the Gospel judge by what Allah has revealed therein. And whoever does not judge by what Allah has revealed - then it is those who are the defiantly disobedient.
Sura 5:68 Say, "O People of the Scripture, you are [standing] on nothing until you uphold [the law of] the Torah, the Gospel, and what has been revealed to you from your Lord." And that which has been revealed to you from your Lord will surely increase many of them in transgression and disbelief. So do not grieve over the disbelieving people.
In this verse *9* *_Allah only forbids you_* with regard to those, who fight you for (your) Faith, and drive you out of your homes and support (others) in driving you out, from turning to them (for friendship and protection). It is such as turn to them (in these circumstances) that do wrong.
It would seem that Mohammed is doing basically what he said should not be done by going after the Christian and Jewish tribes for refusing to fight.
It is clear from the accounts of Ibn Ishaq/Hisham and other early historians that the residents of Mecca did not want war, did not prepare for war, and were obviously not expecting it when Muhammad marched through the gates of their city with an army of 10,000 soldiers.
There is simply no reason to expect that these innocent people would be slaughtered in the first place (other than the fact that the prophet of Islam had ordered such massacres in the past).
As it was, there were some residents who were sentenced to death by Muhammad himself ("a small number who were to be killed even if they were found beneath the curtains of the Ka'ba"Ishaq/Hisham 818, see also Abu Dawud 2677). These included his old enemies who had personally mocked and rejected him, including two slave girls who had made up songs about him:
"He had two singing girls, Fartana and her friend, who used to sing satirical songs about the apostle, so he ordered that they should be killed" (Ibn Ishaq/Hisham 819)
Their master, Ibn Khatal, an apostate from Islam, was also slain on Muhammad's order even as he tried to take refuge in what was considered the holiest of places:
Allah's Apostle entered Mecca in the year of its Conquest wearing an Arabian helmet on his head and when the Prophet took it off, a person came and said, "Ibn Khatal is holding the covering of the Ka'ba (taking refuge in the Ka'ba)." The Prophet said, "Kill him." (Bukhari 29:72, Muslim 7:3145)
