radarmark
Quaker-in-the-Making
Gabe. Salafists are muslims, Timothy McVeigh was a Christian and Amir a Jew. Get it? Faith does not determine if you are evil or not.
T
True Gabriel
Guest
Timothy McVeigh was a criminal a terrorist he was never celebrated or honor as a Christian martyr nor did he committed his crime in the name of Jesus Christ or Christianity. AL Qaeda, Taliban, Hamas, Iranian regime, Al-Shabaab, Boko-Haram, Abu Sayyaf, and many other Muslims like them kill in the name of Islam! Allah Akbar! Salafist are many Muslims, Timothy McVeigh was one man.
By the way, are you implying that Muslims are terrorist?
Faith does determine if one is evil or not especially if one is following the wrong faith. That is why there are two sets of Muslims; (1) followers of Mohammed (2) followers of Allah
Followers of Mohammed believe every words that Mohammed have reveal as the words of Allah even if they contradict with reason, morality, common sense, and with the REVEALED BOOK.
Followers of Allah, believe in the early revealed words of Allah to treat everyone with compassion, tolerance, none violence, co-existing with humanity, they accept Allah's REVEALED BOOK.
A reading of Book of Hosea according to scholars he use many metaphors in describing the relationship of God and Israel and one of the metaphors IMO is Jacob wrestling with a man. Jacob represent Israel and his wrestling symbolises the up and down relationship between God and Israel. At the same time the Bible is very clear that it was not Gabriel that wrestle with Jacob.
Genesis 32:28 - 30
28And he said, Thy name shall be called no more Jacob, but Israel: for as a prince hast thou power with God and with men, and hast prevailed.
29And Jacob asked him, and said, Tell me, I pray thee, thy name. And he said, Wherefore is it that thou dost ask after my name? And he blessed him there.
30And Jacob called the name of the place Peniel: for I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved.
In that verse 30 Jacob was very clear that it was God that he had wrestle with because God wants to teach him a lesson.
In Mohammed's revelations, Gabriel never revealed or identify himself to Mohammed or to Mary, all they know was that it was a spirit in fact it was Waraqa who claim it was Gabriel even though the spirit did not appear to him, what spirit we don't really know especially since in Islamic teachings as revealed by Mohammed there seem to be several type of spirits they are:
1. Jinns or genies mainly found in Sura 72
2. Angels
3. Devils
4. Spirit of holy
5. Gabriel / Michael
6. Allah
T
True Gabriel
Guest
Gabriel is the Archangel of the 6th Ray.
Watch Gabriel Over the White House if you get a chance. That kind of says it all!
Watch "Micahel" it's a good one
"Archangel" Michael - YouTube
I recommend also:
Legion (The best scene ever) - YouTube
"I gave Him what He needed"
Not in Europe it wasn't. You might want to read more about Arian and Cathar heresies.
No - it happened because the Papacy wanted to redirect some of the European aggression from pointless internal conflicts into something external they could be unified under (and therefore be better subject to Papal authority). I would recommend you read a little history here, as blaming the crusades on the Muslims is astonishingly ignorant.
arthra
Baha'i
Gabriel cited:
Genesis 32:28 - 30
28And he said, Thy name shall be called no more Jacob, but Israel: for as a prince hast thou power with God and with men, and hast prevailed.
29And Jacob asked him, and said, Tell me, I pray thee, thy name. And he said, Wherefore is it that thou dost ask after my name? And he blessed him there.
30And Jacob called the name of the place Peniel: for I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved.
In that verse 30 Jacob was very clear that it was God that he had wrestle with because God wants to teach him a lesson.
.................................
So Gabriel you think Jacob wrestled with God and prevailed? won the match? How do you reconcile "I have seen God face to face" with John 1:18 "No one has ever seen God.."? and shouldn't this rather be on a Christian forum rather than a Muslim forum?
Genesis 32:28 - 30
28And he said, Thy name shall be called no more Jacob, but Israel: for as a prince hast thou power with God and with men, and hast prevailed.
29And Jacob asked him, and said, Tell me, I pray thee, thy name. And he said, Wherefore is it that thou dost ask after my name? And he blessed him there.
30And Jacob called the name of the place Peniel: for I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved.
In that verse 30 Jacob was very clear that it was God that he had wrestle with because God wants to teach him a lesson.
.................................
So Gabriel you think Jacob wrestled with God and prevailed? won the match? How do you reconcile "I have seen God face to face" with John 1:18 "No one has ever seen God.."? and shouldn't this rather be on a Christian forum rather than a Muslim forum?
L
Lunitik
Guest
Who is the Son in truth? It is not Jesus, and what Jacob has seen is what John is saying Jesus is - which justifies calling him God. This is consistent with Jesus saying he is the light, that same light is what Jacob means when he says he saw God face to face. If you disagree, then you say God has a form, this is false.
The true metaphysical Son is the physical universe itself, of which Jesus was part of course, as we all are. This is why it also says we are all gods, it is this peak of consciousness that is intended. By fighting with God and prevailing is meant the same as Buddha's story with Mara, he has become enlightened. Of course, people take it to mean something literal, this is the problem.
how slow you are to catch on at times Gab; it's not 'sounds like' but rather the exact same word; the word baca is used in the Quran for Makkah too
The first house appointed for men was that at BAKKA....... In it are signs manifest, (for example) the station of Abraham (quran 3:96-7)
This story is a clear proof of the ka'aba being Gods Holy Mosque at least
the story is mentioned in the Quran and if it did not happen, then that would have been the perfect thing for desbelievers to falsify it, but not a single desbeliever objected to this story for everyone knew it happened
so we have a christian king, who came with his army to destroy the ka'aba, and a miracle takes place, just as they were on the brink of entering makkah, Allah sent a huge flock of birds pelting down stones and rocks on them, destroying the whole army!:
Surah 105. Al-Fil (The Elephant)
In the name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.
1. Seest thou not how thy Lord dealt with the Companions of the Elephant?
2. Did He not make their treacherous plan go astray?
3. And He sent against them Flights of Birds,
4. Striking them with stones of baked clay.
5. Then did He make them like an empty field of stalks and straw, (of which the corn) has been eaten up.
ps: the story basically goes that the byzantine governor of yemen, Abraha, did not like that the arabs made pilgrimage to the ka'ba and held it in very high respect, so he thought he'll make a luxurious and magnificently built church to divert the arabs attention and for them to start making pilgrimage to that church instead, but the arabs just ridiculed that idea and one person went to the most beutifull spot in that church and done a 'plop' on it!
; the king got infuritated and this made him set out to destroy the ka'ba, and the rest is history! The story of Abraha has historical Basis.
Walter W. Muller, a specialized researcher in ancient Arabian history, under the subject Outline of the History of Ancient Southern Arabia, says:
"Southern Arabia became an Abyssinian dominion, first under the local Christian vassal simyafa then under the former Abyssinian General Abreha (Abraha). In 542 .... An inscription dated 547, reporting of a campaign against the rebellious Maadd in Central Arabia (Ry 506). States that Abreha had already styled himself king. The most recently dated inscription of the Himyarite era (CIH 325) is from A.D. 554. It virtually marks the end of the well-documented ancient Southern Arabian epoch and heralds the decline of the Sabeo-Himyarite empire..... Towards the end of his reign, Abreha launched yet another military campaign against the North which has been preserved in the memory of the Arabs because of the elephants accompanying it. Abreha failed to take Mecca as he had intended and the operation had to be abandoned."
Without giving any reason why Abraha had failed in capturing Mecca even though it had surrendered!
Bernard Lewis in his book The Middle East: 2000 Years Of History From The Rise Of Christianity To The Present Day, writes:
Newly converted, the Ethiopians were fervent in their Christianity and responded eagerly to Byzantine embassies. Unfortunately for the Ethiopians, they were not able to complete the task assigned to them. They succeeded initially in crushing and destroying the last independent state in southern Arabia, and opening the country to Christian and other external influences, but they were not strong enough to maintain it. They had even tried to advance northwards from the Yemen, and in 507 CE had attacked Mecca, a Yemenite trading post on the caravan route to the north. The Ethiopians failed and were defeated, and a little later the Persians came to the Yemen in their place.[6]
For further information on the story of this Christian campaign against Mecca a reference is made in al-Seerah al-Nabawiyyah. Below is a pre-Islamic poem from the same source that preserved the event by a person who had witnessed it. The poet Nufail bin Habeeb was there when the event took place and met with the fleeing soldiers of Abraha's army who asked him the directions to Yemen:
The poem can be roughly translated as follows:
Greetings Rudainah (A female name) we have been pleased with an early morning view. We had received - a seeker of fire - from your side (the word Qabis is used for a person who seeks fire or wood to be used as a source of light at night) but he could not find anything here. O Rudainah! if you have seen what we have seen near al-Muhasab (a location between Mecca and Mina) you would excuse me and not be saddened with what happened in the past between us. I thanked God when I saw the birds and I was afraid of stones that was thrown on us. And they (Abraha's men) were asking about me (to show them the way) as if I was owing them some previous debts.[7]
So to sum up:
1. Historians and Researchers agree that Abraha led a campaign against Makkah., in an evil bid to destroy the Kaa'ba.
2. His plan however was foiled. Not only so, they were in fact defeated, and persians took their position.
3. The question that needs to be asked now: how come the Great Abraha, Leader of Yemen, with all its might, and that of the Elephants which the Makkans have never seen before, could not conquer the tiny city of Makkah? It was a mere tiny city, having tribes squabbling amongst themselves, against the Great Might the like of which Makka has never before seen. Can there be any naturalistic explantion for this? I for one, doubt.
4.To top it off, there are pre-Islamic poetry which talk about this event and they mention the birds and the stones in specific.
5. Combining the two pieces of Evidence, we could say that it is very plausible that the Event narrated of Surah Fil has sound historical basis.
The Defense of The Qur'an Against The Bible Borrowing Theory
radarmark
Quaker-in-the-Making
Abdullah, my friend, please keep posting those links! When I do a literature search based on the references you post, I find some intriguing academic articles.
your welcome radar!
here is the full story of that incident; it's a good read
:Muhammadan Reality Year of Elephant
T
True Gabriel
Guest
Arian started sometime in the 3rd century that seriously threaten Catholic, in fact the Arian at one point gain political power under Constantine II that started to go after the Catholics. It would be under Gratian and Theodosius that Catholic will be restored and Arian was deem to be a serious threat by the the Emperors. And it was basically because of the rise of so many heretics that church leaders needed to exert more to protect the true doctrine, scripture and history of the church.
In Europe, barbarians and Vikings were on the rampage killing Christians as usual until finally through faith and none violence one by one the barbarians converted. Unfortunately, these new converts would use force to convert other barbarians.
The internal conflicts of European warlords ignoring the eminent threat of Muslim aggression. Thanks to the Pope, those European Lords finally saw the danger but it was already too late Christendom in the Middle East has already fallen, Muslims power has grown uncontrollable. Anti Catholic have always distort the Crusade as an excuse in justifying Muslim or ignoring Muslim aggression and atrocities.
Blaming the crusade on the church is pure ignorant and bias about history.
T
True Gabriel
Guest
Writers of the Quran got it wrong they come up with that interpretation without fully CONSULTING or CONFORMING with the people of the BOOK base on Allah's commands to refer to the REVEALED BOOK in Sura 10:94, 5:44 - 47, 16:43 and 5:68. Mohammed and his followers failed, ignored or refuse to follow Allah's command that is why they come up with their own interpretation if they had consulted with the people of the Book they will realise their error.
BAKA in Psalm 84:1 -7 is not referring to Muslims Kaaba or Mecca, it is refering to the ZION;
There is no way that Abraham could have build the Kaaba, chances are it was Ishmael who build the Kabaa.
Genesis 25:8 - 11
8Then Abraham gave up the ghost, and died in a good old age, an old man, and full of years; and was gathered to his people.
9And his sons Isaac and Ishmael buried him in the cave of Machpelah, in the field of Ephron the son of Zohar the Hittite, which is before Mamre;
10The field which Abraham purchased of the sons of Heth: there was Abraham buried, and Sarah his wife.
11And it came to pass after the death of Abraham, that God blessed his son Isaac; and Isaac dwelt by the well Lahairoi.
Arabia - Original Catholic Encyclopedia
i think that interpretation was put together by someone who wanted to oppose the Bible giving credence to the Quran, but if you think about it, the bible mentions people performing pilgrimage as they pass through the valley of bakkah and to say that this is not the valley of bakkah of the Quran where pilgrimage is performed is really to career out of the common sense interpretation here, history knows of no other valley of bakkah which is associated with pilgrimage other than the one in Arabia
Paran in the Bible is Mecca today - See the Archeological discoveries that prove Mount Sinai is in Saudi Arabia.
this is really silly Gab, for you to just adamantly stick to your story, and not paying attention to contextual evidence; like this we will get nowhere!
radarmark
Quaker-in-the-Making
Isn't it just possible that BAKA is the valley in Arabia? Chandler and some others seem to think so.
T
True Gabriel
Guest
Sura 10:94, If thou wert in doubt as to what We have revealed unto thee, then ask those who have been reading the Book from before thee: the Truth hath indeed come to thee from thy Lord: so be in no wise of those in doubt.
Sura 16:43 And before thee also the apostles We sent were but men, to whom We granted inspiration: if ye realise this not, ask of those who possess the Message.
Sura 5:46 , 48
46 And in their footsteps We sent Jesus the son of Mary, confirming the Law that had come before him: We sent him the Gospel: therein was guidance and light, and confirmation of the Law that had come before him: a guidance and an admonition to those who fear Allah.
48 To thee We sent the Scripture in truth, confirming the scripture that came before it, and guarding it in safety: so judge between them by what Allah hath revealed, and follow not their vain desires, diverging from the Truth that hath come to thee. To each among you have we prescribed a law and an open way. If Allah had so willed, He would have made you a single people, but (His plan is) to test you in what He hath given you: so strive as in a race in all virtues. The goal of you all is to Allah. it is He that will show you the truth of the matters in which ye dispute;
Allah is saying the BOOK is the BIBLE not the Quran Quran means recite or recitation not book and no where was it ever mention, not in the Quran, Sunna or Hadith about a book called Quran or for Mohammed and his followers to write a book called Quran. To ignore or fail to understand those verse will only make the Quran a more erroneous book.
Verse after verse spread out in 20 years, Allah kept reminding Mohammed to consult or ASK the people of the BOOK (Bible) there is no other book other than the Torah and the Bible, unless there is a third book that no one was aware of and if there was who then are the people of the book?
if we are to substitute the word QURAN to it's English translation to Recitation found on verse 10:39 this is what it will read like;10:39 This Recitation (Qur'an) is not such as can be produced by other than Allah; on the contrary it is a confirmation of (revelations) that went before it, and a fuller explanation of the Book - wherein there is no doubt - from the Lord of the worlds.
That is why after reading the Quran and arranging them according to time line putting the pieces where they are supposed to be we will understand that only 20% of the revelation are from Allah and conforms with the Bible the rest are from other spirits chances are from jinns or genies.
Mohammed and his followers have every opportunity to travel to Alexandria, Antioch, Jerusalem, Constantinople and Rome to discuss or ASK the church fathers, share with them his revelation just like he shared it with Waraqa in his first year of prophet-hood to learn and understand what Allah has REVEALED in the BOOK (BIBLE) that is under the safe keeping of the church fathers, "sura 5:48 the scripture that came before it, and guarding it in safety. Instead Mohammed went on a rampage and started to destroy the people of the book. Eventually his followers will conquer Alexandria, Antioch and Jerusalem not to ASK but to destroy; because of this the church fathers were wise to retreat all the important Scriptures and Documents of the Holy Bible to safety in Rome.
Muslims have already destroyed the True Cross of Christ, they have also destroyed all the authentic writings of other Muslims in the 7th century and they have destroyed Mosque build by Mohammed's daughter Aisha.
Mecca - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The officially-approved form of Islam in Saudi Arabia, Wahhabism, is hostile to any reverence given to historical or religious places of significance for fear that it may give rise to idolatry. As a consequence, under Saudi rule, it has been estimated that since 1985 about 95% of Mecca's historic buildings, most over a thousand years old, have been demolished.[45]
Historic sites of religious importance which have been destroyed by the Saudis include five of the renowned "Seven Mosques" initially built by Muhammad's daughter and four of his "greatest Companions": Masjid Abu Bakr, Masjid Salman al-Farsi, Masjid Umar ibn al-Khattab, Masjid Sayyida Fatima bint Rasulullah and Masjid Ali ibn Abu Talib
The church fathers did the right thing they safely evacuated all the Holy Scriptures before they could be destroy and in the 12th century almost 400 years of Mohammedans insatiable appetite for world conquest and destruction and after all peaceful and diplomatic efforts failed including paying off the Mohammedans, the Catholic church finally as a last resort called for a JUST WAR to defend Christ just like God did as a last resort when He had to call upon Gabriel and His angels to repel Lucifer so will the Catholic church do that, it will be the beginning of the Crusades.
Muslims need to follow Allah’s command and that is to ASK, CONSULT and or CONFIRM with the people of the Book with the Book (Bible) in order to fully verify the such claims as Baka means Mecca or Kaaba, or did Abraham build Kaaba o rnot, or was Mohammed prophesied in the REVEALED BOOK (Bible) or not. Muslims can not just make up their own interpretation it will only muddle Allah’s Words further and until they can consult with the church fathers all their claims lacks credibility or are just heresay.
Psalms 84:6 [Who] passing through the valley of Baca make it a well; the rain also filleth the pools. 7 They go from strength to strength, [every one of them] in Zion appeareth before God.
The author of the Old Testament Psalm pinned the destination of the pilgrimage as being "in Zion" which is the name of the easternmost hill in, and synonymous with, Jerusalem - located 1200 kilometers away from Mecca - with Zion being referenced 153 times in the King James version of the Holy Bible.[18] Jerusalem is where YHWH (Yahweh) had his people build his tabernacle, and the temple mount, which still stands today. The above cited Psalms passage refers to Yahweh's people, gathering from around the Holy Land of the prophets and patriarchs, on pilgrimage to Solomon's Temple in Jerusalem.[/I]
Short Studies in the Science of Comparative Religions Embracing All the ... - J. G. R. Forlong - Google Books
T
True Gabriel
Guest
In this this site you provided Paran in the Bible is Mecca today - See the Archeological discoveries that prove Mount Sinai is in Saudi Arabia.
The author have use the Bible to locate the exact location of Sinai, and if only the author would have work more closely with the church fathers they might fully discover materials together that are not found in the Quran and church fathers might have missed out from the Bible.
Paran in the Bible is Mecca today - See the Archeological discoveries that prove Mount Sinai is in Saudi Arabia.
T
True Gabriel
Guest
In this this website; Paran in the Bible is Mecca today - See the Archeological discoveries that prove Mount Sinai is in Saudi Arabia.
The author have use the Bible to locate the exact location of Sinai, and if only the author would have work more closely with the church fathers they might fully discover materials together as commanded by Allah "Sura 10:94, If thou wert in doubt as to what We have revealed unto thee, then ask those who have been reading the Book from before thee: the Truth hath indeed come to thee from thy Lord: so be in no wise of those in doubt. Materials that can only be found in the Bible.
Muslim scholars have also use the Bible to locate the Biblical validity of Mecca, Kaaba and Mohammed unfortunately they are not using the Bible as it was intended for with all its riches and information. They seem to be using the Bible to validate their claim that the Bible is corrupt instead of using the Bible for all its worth.
The turning to the Bible by Muslims in this instances are good news it is in line with Allah's several instructions to Mohammed that Mohammed and subsequently his followers failed to do, hopefully in due time not too far in the near future Muslims will accept the Bible as proof that it is the REVEALED Words and or Book of Allah as prescribe in Sura 10:94, 10:39, 5:46 -48, 16:43.
The author have use the Bible to locate the exact location of Sinai, and if only the author would have work more closely with the church fathers they might fully discover materials together as commanded by Allah "Sura 10:94, If thou wert in doubt as to what We have revealed unto thee, then ask those who have been reading the Book from before thee: the Truth hath indeed come to thee from thy Lord: so be in no wise of those in doubt. Materials that can only be found in the Bible.
Muslim scholars have also use the Bible to locate the Biblical validity of Mecca, Kaaba and Mohammed unfortunately they are not using the Bible as it was intended for with all its riches and information. They seem to be using the Bible to validate their claim that the Bible is corrupt instead of using the Bible for all its worth.
The turning to the Bible by Muslims in this instances are good news it is in line with Allah's several instructions to Mohammed that Mohammed and subsequently his followers failed to do, hopefully in due time not too far in the near future Muslims will accept the Bible as proof that it is the REVEALED Words and or Book of Allah as prescribe in Sura 10:94, 10:39, 5:46 -48, 16:43.
arthra
Baha'i
"...no where was it ever mention, not in the Quran, Sunna or Hadith about a book called Quran or for Mohammed and his followers to write a book called Quran."
Sahih International
This is the Book about which there is no doubt, a guidance for those conscious of Allah -
This is the Book about which there is no doubt, a guidance for those conscious of Allah -
Quran 2:2
Sahih International
He has sent down upon you, [O Muhammad], the Book in truth, confirming what was before it. And He revealed the Torah and the Gospel.
Sahih International
Before, as guidance for the people. And He revealed the Qur'an. Indeed, those who disbelieve in the verses of Allah will have a severe punishment, and Allah is exalted in Might, the Owner of Retribution.
these verses should be self explanatory in that Allah is merely confirming the past revelations and Messengers He has sent
Allah says regarding the Quran
007.157: Those who follow the messenger, the Prophet who can neither read nor write, whom they will find described in the Torah and the Gospel (which are) with them. He will enjoin on them that which is right and forbid them that which is wrong. He will make lawful for them all good things and prohibit for them only the foul; and he will relieve them of their burden and the fetters that they used to wear. Then those who believe in him, and honour him, and help him, and follow the light which is sent down with him: they are the successful.
The above verse is self explanatory, but i'll post up the exegesis on it anyway
those who follow the Messenger, the uninstructed Prophet, Muhammad (s) whom they will find inscribed in their Torah and Gospel, in name and description, enjoining them to decency and forbidding them indecency, making lawful for them the good things, which were forbidden [to them] by their Law, and making unlawful for them the vile things, such as carrion and the like, and relieving them of their burden, their onus, and the shackles, the hardships, that they used to bear, such as [the requirement] to kill oneself as a repentance and the severing of that part that had come into contact with any impurity. Then those who believe in him, from among them, and honour, revere, him, and help him, and follow the light that has been revealed with him, namely, the Qur’ān, they are the ones who will prosper’.
Altafsir.com - The Tafsirs - ÇáÊÝÇÓíÑ
So the Quran is unequivical in that the Prophet [saw] was sent with new laws for the people of the Book, and the successfull one's out of them are those who follow that new law, i.e, the guidance of the Quran!
And there is a verse in the Quran where God curses and refers to the Jews as Kaafirs [rejectors of faith/desbelievers] as they had rejected the Prophet Muhammad [saw]:
2-89: And when there came to them a Book from Allah, which confirms what was with them,__ while earlier, they used to seek help against those who disbelieved, __ yet when there came to them that which they did recognize, they denied it. So the curse of Allah is upon the disbelievers
thus if the past revelations were still valid, then the Jews should not have been reffered to as desbelievers who will be doomed to hell for rejecting the last prophet Muhammad [saw]
Also the following verse is mainly about Christians and Jews; it is rather self explanatory in that ALlah is saying that a new Mesenger has been sent to them now and they are now to follow him
(The Clear Evidence)
1. Those who disbelieve among the People of the Scripture and the idolaters could not have left off (erring) till the clear proof came unto them,
2. A messenger from Allah, reading purified pages
3. Containing correct scriptures.
4. Nor were the People of the Scripture divided until after the clear proof came unto them.
5. And they are ordered naught else than to serve Allah, keeping religion pure for Him, as men by nature upright, and to establish worship and to pay the poor-due. That is true religion.
6. Lo! those who disbelieve, among the People of the Scripture and the idolaters, will abide in fire of hell. They are the worst of created beings.
7. (And) lo! those who believe and do good works are the best of created beings.
8. Their reward is with their Lord: Gardens of Eden underneath which rivers flow, wherein they dwell for ever. Allah hath pleasure in them and they have pleasure in Him. This is (in store) for him who feareth his Lord.
the bottom line is, Bible is distorted so it is not a trustworthy source of proof, thus the only things that can be accepted from it is that which accords to the Quran, and Quran shows Bakkah is todays Makkah
Peace!
ps; so you accept that Ismael built the ka'aba?, in that case does it not say in the Bible that a great nation would rise from him?; and what other great nation rose from Arabia other than the muslims?, thus Islam and Muslims is 'great' according to the Bible, so how can it be from a 'bad Gabrial'?
these verses should be self explanatory in that Allah is merely confirming the past revelations and Messengers He has sent
Allah says regarding the Quran
007.157: Those who follow the messenger, the Prophet who can neither read nor write, whom they will find described in the Torah and the Gospel (which are) with them. He will enjoin on them that which is right and forbid them that which is wrong. He will make lawful for them all good things and prohibit for them only the foul; and he will relieve them of their burden and the fetters that they used to wear. Then those who believe in him, and honour him, and help him, and follow the light which is sent down with him: they are the successful.
The above verse is self explanatory, but i'll post up the exegesis on it anyway:
those who follow the Messenger, the uninstructed Prophet, Muhammad (s) whom they will find inscribed in their Torah and Gospel, in name and description, enjoining them to decency and forbidding them indecency, making lawful for them the good things, which were forbidden [to them] by their Law, and making unlawful for them the vile things, such as carrion and the like, and relieving them of their burden, their onus, and the shackles, the hardships, that they used to bear, such as [the requirement] to kill oneself as a repentance and the severing of that part that had come into contact with any impurity. Then those who believe in him, from among them, and honour, revere, him, and help him, and follow the light that has been revealed with him, namely, the Qur’ān, they are the ones who will prosper’.
Altafsir.com - The Tafsirs - ÇáÊÝÇÓíÑ
So the Quran is unequivical in that the Prophet [saw] was sent with new laws for the people of the Book, and the successfull one's out of them are those who follow that new law, i.e, the guidance of the Quran!
And there is a verse in the Quran where God curses and refers to the Jews as Kaafirs [rejectors of faith/desbelievers] as they had rejected the Prophet Muhammad [saw]:
2-89: And when there came to them a Book from Allah, which confirms what was with them,__ while earlier, they used to seek help against those who disbelieved, __ yet when there came to them that which they did recognize, they denied it. So the curse of Allah is upon the disbelievers
thus if the past revelations were still valid, then the Jews should not have been reffered to as desbelievers who will be doomed to hell for rejecting the last prophet Muhammad [saw]
Also the following verse is mainly about Christians and Jews; it is rather self explanatory in that ALlah is saying that a new Mesenger has been sent to them now and they are now to follow him
(The Clear Evidence)
1. Those who disbelieve among the People of the Scripture and the idolaters could not have left off (erring) till the clear proof came unto them,
2. A messenger from Allah, reading purified pages
3. Containing correct scriptures.
4. Nor were the People of the Scripture divided until after the clear proof came unto them.
5. And they are ordered naught else than to serve Allah, keeping religion pure for Him, as men by nature upright, and to establish worship and to pay the poor-due. That is true religion.
6. Lo! those who disbelieve, among the People of the Scripture and the idolaters, will abide in fire of hell. They are the worst of created beings.
7. (And) lo! those who believe and do good works are the best of created beings.
8. Their reward is with their Lord: Gardens of Eden underneath which rivers flow, wherein they dwell for ever. Allah hath pleasure in them and they have pleasure in Him. This is (in store) for him who feareth his Lord.
the bottom line is, Bible is distorted so it is not a trustworthy source of proof, thus the only things that can be accepted from it is that which accords to the Quran, and Quran shows Bakkah is todays Makkah
Peace!
ps; so you accept that Ismael built the ka'aba?, in that case does it not say in the Bible that a great nation would rise from him?; and what other great nation rose from Arabia other than the muslims?, thus Islam and Muslims is 'great' according to the Bible, so how can it be from a 'bad Gabrial'?
What does the black stone at chobar represent? Why do muslims kiss the stone? I notice the women dress in black , seems to be a connection.