Thomas said:
From an esoteric (and somewhat sentimental) point of view, yes ... but metaphysically, no.
Christ is the Principle of Being-as-such, and the Principle is not parcelled up in chunks (thumb-sized or otherwise) to be distributed amongst the multitudinous instances of a given principle ... rather the inner being or the highest part of any given being resides in the Principle and depends on it for its being and its continuance.
As Eckhart, who is not, as many assume, a mystic, but a metaphysician (for mystics work in the world of sense and form, Eckhart transcends that altogether in his doctrine) said "My truest I is God"
You do not grasp Eckhart at all, either. Else your argument would have CEASED by now, since he proves everything I'm trying to demonstrate with this last statement. I would close the book there, as you have some catching up to do. Kick my EGO out of that statement, and you have your Work laid PLAIN, if but stated
in terms of Intellectual realization. When you have had the additional expansions of consciousness that MAKE this likely or inevitable (and which I have never denied, but always emphasized), THEN come back to us. We
may be ready to actually get somewhere ... OR to take you as you are. But not before.
Your mind is stuck with the problem of the
One and Many. The Greeks will help you with that. I cannot. You are stubborn, and your ego is as bound up in the matter as ever. So long as an argument goes
your way ... or so long as you are flaunting your book-learning and headful of Catholic theology, that smile will remain, but understanding will
elude you. However
arrogant you may think I am, it will be YOU who eats that humble pie ... be it two years down the road, twenty, or two hundred lifetimes. YOU choose, but don't come telling ME about what I already know. If these were but
my opinions, my thoughts, it might just be purely funny, or you could shrug it off. Again, as I say, remove
my ego from my observations, spin them if you must
so that they FEEL BETTER ... and you have some practical advice for getting past your hurdles.
Your understanding of metaphysics is hopelessly muddled and couched so deeply within your Catholicism, however ... that I can't do anything more. I throw in the towel, Thomas, because
you do not WISH to see it
any other way. No sense confusing you with the facts!!!
Thomas said:
Please don't criticise what you don't underdstand.
Please don't make such assumptions and accusations. I have an understanding that works just fine for me. If yours does for you, then good. I'm about done
weighing in on this thread, and just wish I hadn't wasted so much effort ... on the same old lost cause. I mean, after reading the same old choose-your-own-adventure book a few dozen times, you know exactly what's going to result, about every single way you try to spin things. There's no
getting one past you, Thomas, because your mind is so set up with road-blocks .... I mean it truly is WATER TIGHT. Christ's Aquarian Goodness is ~ n
ot gonna get YOU wet!!!
Andrew mentions
the physical, astral and mental, so Thomas - who doesn't understand even this basic description of the
WORLD we all live in, throws the BABY right out with the
bathwater, by saying:
"Esoterisms again. I'm not interested."
And that's why I'm not interested in speaking with you anymore.
Thomas said:
"I do not wish to see as seers do"
...
or as anyone else with half a lightbulb's worth of illumination going on up there.
Practice the Gospel, and leave the heavy lifting for the folks with a little muscle, okay Thomas? The deeper stuff will come to you in time,
IF you've laid the proper foundation ... and learned to be a friendly bloke. Try
less of this
beating others over the head about how inadequate their theology and
metaphysics are. Try, instead, seeing some COMMON points between the various systems ... or maybe find a different board than INTERFAITH.
Aren't there any nice boards on Roman Catholic Church history and heady theology that you can visit? You know, with a few hundred other heady seminary students to give you a REAL run for your money? I mean,
surely you must be tired of the same old worn out banter with
us dolts who are
so far BENEATH your towering Wisdom and gifted intellect!
Thomas said:
But authentic Revelation, issuing from the Absolute
Wrong, thank you for playing. Please try again
next time ...
Thomas said:
As stated before, a Revelation which offers what its recipient is unable to fulfil is neither good nor true ...
Hence, when the Christ or the Buddha spoke,
each was able to understand and apply the Teaching
according to his OWN merit, station in life, background, etc. It is because YOU cannot see this, and try to BEND the Good News and FIT it into your theology, to FLATTEN it here on the physical plane into
your formulaic, EMPTY-of-meaning LIP SERVICE ... that you remain like Don Quixote when it comes to the esoteric Wisdom, and all around people are
COMING TO THE LIGHT, the LOVE, the TRUTH.
Will you EVER
get with the program, Thomas? Or will you ride that same, tired and lonely, worn-out horse right over the cliffside, chanting paternosters merrily as you descend the cavernous abyss? WILL you keep
tilting at windmills? Go for it, man. They look like giants ...
to you!
Thomas, I understood the Christian Mysteries 2100 years ago better than you have understood them in ANY lifetime during, since or before that time. I give you FIVE more incarnations before you have caught up with pretty much any of the rest of us. What you've put in your head, has become the road block. I will agree
right quick if you suggest it's your HEART that needs the work. You and I are not so far apart in this regard, IF for some different reasons, or with definite
dissimilarities. But you're a crusty old codger, at least when you interact with me. And I"m done with it.
Again,
thanks for the effort. You're such a nut. Trying to MAKE A GOOD CATHOLIC out of poor HPB
IN DEATH ... with such
poor taste that you even intruded upon her
deathbed experience! I have never seen such ignorance, and such poor taste, in my life. I should have realized then, and before, that you were hopeless. KEEP it in the Catholic ballpark, alright?
I think you'll find that I'm not averse to leaving the
heavy lifting of church history to you and your lack-eyes, I mean,
lackeys ... with an only occasional drop by to say, YES, I think Christ
did teach Rebirth, and foreshadowed his own Reappearance.
Plenty of us know that this is true better than you know your own hands or feet, or can use them. WHEN you have caught up with us, we will call you FRIEND. Until then, smile as you may, you prove an obstacle ... for you
misinform the public, and the only hope you have of redeeming yourself in that regard is to
PROVE the Christianity you believe in by LIVING the Gospels, and by DEMONSTRATING the Golden Rule.
Now get to it, man. You and I are
always together, and on the same footing, in that regard, AS ARE ALL MEN. Elitism
has no place in the Spiritual Hierarchy, even if
your church does thrive on it ... indeed, she is entirely FOUNDED upon it. Case in point:
You'd like to make a `good Catholic' of everyone. I think it's not only unlikely, but really a bad idea, to try and INDOCTRINATE the world with
Theosophy. When it triumphs, Truth does so
because of what it is,
never despite itself. Roman Catholic theology ... is forever limited to this latter
unfortunate scenario. It's heyday, of course, is
long since past ...
===
Lol, your observations are not off, however. I allow my mental faculty to become
clouded from below, by the flooding of emotion ... sometimes passion, sometimes a degree of distress [the latter, at present, as I
cannot stand what you do to
Wisdom's Good name]. On the other hand, let us examine Thomas a bit further. HIS mental faculty, it seems, CANNOT receive more than a
tiny trickle, a MEAGRE measure of the greater RIVER of Divine Love and Wisdom, simply because he has SHUT HIMSELF OFF to it. He will accept
God *ONLY* on Thomas's own terms. And God, Whom I assure you is
not in the least bit worried about your own, private shortcomings, continues to pour forth to you
in just such measure as you will receive ... yet it is clear that the
breakthroughs which everyone is waiting for will not come for some time. YOU can change that, NOT God.
Why heap absuse upon you, Thomas, when YOU are the one responsible for your own lack of enlightenment. As gladly as you will point out my difficulty in quelling the emotional storms, I will point out that you are a
Good Soul [as are all, but also an `old Soul,' and one with much to offer] ... yet so confused about metaphysics that you cannot help but project that onto someone who has studied with, even spent time with,
Masters. That the next few words out of your mouth are likely a clear DENIAL of your OWN CHRIST ...
does not distress me. It's that other people see such crap, and nod their heads, and say to themselves,
'Yup; that's what I done read in my Bible here."
And we're chasing our tails, and back to the drawing-board.
I can even describe for you, in some detail, how your DEATH will proceed, following the `Life's Review,' and yes, that's something I can do - in some detail - for a good number of Chrisitans, also non-Christians alike. Thomas, I have FORGOTTEN much more about such matters than you have ever learned. And, yes, I have PRACTICED enough of what I believe, and am still dedicated to doing such ... that even as I sometimes find myself
sitting here in the dirt, *beside* the proverbial horse, I will still give you TEN TRILLION TO ONE odds that I beat you to the finish line, even with 20,000 leagues of a head start.
Am I
confident of the things I've studied, that they are essentially TRUE?
No, Thomas, I KNOW so. Believe as you like,
but PROVE YOUR FAITH, not by arguing it to me, or others, but by LIVING it. Challenge me, good man,
CHALLENGE me to do the same. If I do less,
I am no different, and you WILL arrive ... ahead of me. So be it. Let us SEE how this plays out!
Make it a HEALTHY, challenge, however, by proving to me that YOU, also, can let go the bittnerness, the enmity and the
envy. I don't mind at all letting you have the last word. YOUR smear job, echoing that of
your church, as you THINK I so despise, will not change anything about me ... but it might make you feel good. And you DO like to shine before others.
How do I REALLY feel about Roman Catholicism? You have NO clue, because you have always assumed ... and wrongly so. You misread me, and I cannot fault you entirely for that, but you have never bothered to stop and ask me DIRECT questions on certain matters; instead, you have tried to
best me with your theology, and when that doesn't work, you just rail on against Theosophy and such schools of thought, attacking the metaphysics, since that's where the poor RCC cannot hold water ... I mean
really, the theology
is holy (just as is Swiss cheese), and rather than labour to restore dignity and meaning to Christ's message, rather than PROVE that He was not wasting his time and breath, you'd rather just
rubber stamp whatever comes your way, buy into the lies, and foist that stuff on others like its
honey. [And by the way, no,
I'm NOT trying to catch flies.]
Your theology may
taste sweet, old friend, but those of us who see what you're doing ... wish the people could just get a tiny little taste of the GOOD STUFF for a change. It firms you up, it STRAIGHTENS you of your erring ways, and yes, at times it can even be
bitter and hard to swallow. But we were NEVER taught that Truth was EASY, or
a free ride, regardless of what your INTERPRETATIONS of your Good Book seem to indicate. And while you will
PROUDLY [key word, my
man of PRIDE] step up to plate to show me where the
YOKE is said to be easy, yadda yadda, you will avoid the point altogether ... as the most BASIC of metaphysical realizations, the ABC of the Ageless Wisdom,
simply because it does not suit you.
Thomas, God has done - and will do - a bunch of things that
do not, will not, SUIT YOU. I hope you learn to adjust, ere you get to the
THRONE, where I can quite envision you with your
curtseys and
ridiculous crossing yourself, only to leap to your feet and begin to wag your finger about
all the things that would have gone better, IF ONLY the Deity had listened to
YOU ... and stuck to good old, Roman Catholic theology, the way the BOOKS have it.
YEAH! Good luck with
that whole endeavor.
I am done insisting that Christ taught rebirth, because I've made
my points, and adequately so over the years here at Interfaith, on various threads, in different discussions ... WITH consistency, though also with strong opposition from
mr. I've-got-a-line-to-tow here. I have no need to PROVE anything to you
or anyone ... for this is part of the confidence that comes with
KNOWLEDGE.
You will demonstrate
faith, and again, that's good. WHEN you can add to this direct, firsthand KNOWLEDGE - AWARENESS, not
book learning - then you will realize that the goofball pointing the finger here, telling ME that
I don't know what I'm talking about ... is the mistaken party. Not
vice versa.
It is unpleasant to stand, or sit, and insist that
"Yes, Christ DID teach so-and-so," if plainly the other party, or other contributors to the discussion DO NOT believe so. I think we should get back to that. I'm done with my contribution. Anyone who want to know more can
ask me ... including WHY I believe as I do, either with scriptural basis, due to personal insight and experience, or otherwise.
I'm tired of you standing up and
getting all puffy - which is exactly the occurrence, for those who can SEE your mental body - about such matters. LEARN some of that
clair-voyance you are so good at poo-pooing ... and perhaps it will
help to deflate that false ego of yours.
Go more for the ECKHART kind of realization. What did he say again? About the ego and God?
WORK ON IT
I for one, would like to
see it in your case, and hear less of the TALK.
