Is Jesus Coming Back?

[Gatekeeper]

Sooo many are still waiting after all! I've been thinking about this and thought I'd share my view. Jesus was no different than us (Hebrews 2:16-18), thus what he did we can do also, and even greater things than him (John 14:12). He grew in stature and in wisdom (Luke 2:52), just as we grow in stature and in wisdom. He learned obedience through suffering, and was made perfect through the temptations he himself suffered (Hebrew 5:8-10). We do the same.



This is God's plan of salvation. We are born natural (first man/Adam) and it is through the testing of life and the things we learn in life, coupled with the Holy Spirit (love) that we ourselves are made perfect (1 Corinthians 15:45-49). It takes some hard knocks in life for us to gain knowledge, and it takes love to lead us home. We are not born carnal or bad, but rather we are born ignorant, which is why we are destroyed (lack of knowledge). We learn as we grow and live. Jesus did the same.



Jesus (the son of man) represents all of us, and Jesus (son of God) represents who we become after being reborn of the Holy Spirit (love). Hos 4:6 suggests that we are killed for lack of knowledge. In other words, we are destroyed because we are ignorant. It is ignorance that leads to our destruction and it is love (the Spirit) that leads us to life.



Is Jesus coming back? I’ll quote Jesus to answer the question directly:



“If ye love me, keep my commandments. And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter that he may abide with you forever; Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it sees him not, neither knows him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you. I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you. Yet a little while, and the world will see me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also. At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you".



Perhaps Jesus has already returned. :sigh: He lives in the hearts of those who have been born again. Those who have been born again of the Spirit are his body on earth (1 Corinthians 12:27). It is written that God is love, that Jesus embodied God's fullness, and even as the Father lived in him, so also does he live in us. So, instead of waiting for him, maybe we should let him rule in us as love ...

 

[radarmark]

Christ Jesus never died, and the Parousia never ended.

 

[mojobadshah]

Sooo many are still waiting after all! I've been thinking about this and thought I'd share my view. Jesus was no different than us (Hebrews 2:16-18), thus what he did we can do also, and even greater things than him (John 14:12). He grew in stature and in wisdom (Luke 2:52), just as we grow in stature and in wisdom. He learned obedience through suffering, and was made perfect through the temptations he himself suffered (Hebrew 5:8-10). We do the same.

This is God's plan of salvation. We are born natural (first man/Adam) and it is through the testing of life and the things we learn in life, coupled with the Holy Spirit (love) that we ourselves are made perfect (1 Corinthians 15:45-49). It takes some hard knocks in life for us to gain knowledge, and it takes love to lead us home. We are not born carnal or bad, but rather we are born ignorant, which is why we are destroyed (lack of knowledge). We learn as we grow and live. Jesus did the same.

Jesus (the son of man) represents all of us, and Jesus (son of God) represents who we become after being reborn of the Holy Spirit (love). Hos 4:6 suggests that we are killed for lack of knowledge. In other words, we are destroyed because we are ignorant. It is ignorance that leads to our destruction and it is love (the Spirit) that leads us to life.

I really like what you've written here. You're phraseology is great. The Aryans called the first man and woman Mashyo an Mashye cf. man, woman who were born from a tree. In Nordic mythology the first man and woman were also born of a tree. It's how we know that elements of the Aryan creation are archaic and descend from a common Aryan (PIE) ancestor which probably even predated the Semitic version of the first man and woman. You're contention that "we are not born carnal or bad" is very Aryan. The Zarathushtrians did not incorporate the doctrine of Original Sin into their belief system. The Holy Spirit in Zarathushtrian was called Spenta Mainyu and one of this Holy Spirit's hypostasis was known as Spenta Armaiti cf. Mother Earth, but oftentimes equated with fidelity, devotion and love. I think that you would agree with me that the emphasis of a Holy Spirit as opposed to the Hostile Spirit, which is very much apart of the Aryan belief system, was rather revolutionary one, especially in ancient times while the Greeks and the Romans and every people but the Aryans (Persians) worshiped gods that represented tricksters, and liars, and murderers, and rapists, and thieves. And like you the Zarathushtrians believed that we are all sons of God.

Is Jesus coming back?

But I would have to say NO to this one. I think Fredrich Nieztche put it best when he said in so many words "God is dead and I am the superman." If you believe in Jesus, and that Jesus was "the truth," the only thing that is true about God is that as far as you and I know "a single all mighty all knowing creator of the universe, oftentimes portrayed anthropomorphically, who fathered mankind" does not exist, but what does exist is the God expression.

I’ll quote Jesus to answer the question directly: “If ye love me, keep my commandments. And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter that he may abide with you forever; Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it sees him not, neither knows him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you. I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you. Yet a little while, and the world will see me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also. At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you".

Zarathushtra said basically the same thing (in the monotheistic context.).

88. We sacrifice unto the awful kingly Glory, made by Mazda .... 89. That will cleave unto the victorious Saoshyant and his helpers, when he shall restore the world, which will (thenceforth) never grow old and never die, never decaying and never rotting, ever living and ever increasing, and master of its wish, when the dead will rise, when life and immortality will come, and the world will be restored at its wish; 90. When the creation will grow deathless, - the prosperous creation of the Good Spirit, - and the Druj shall perish, though she may rush on every side to kill the holy beings; she and her hundredfold brood shall perish, as it is the will of the Lord. For its brightness and glory, I will offer it a sacrifice .... - Zam Yasht 15.88-90

Maybe you're the Saoshyant or Comforter????

 

[Gatekeeper]

Zarathushtra said basically the same thing (in the monotheistic context.).

88. We sacrifice unto the awful kingly Glory, made by Mazda .... 89. That will cleave unto the victorious Saoshyant and his helpers, when he shall restore the world, which will (thenceforth) never grow old and never die, never decaying and never rotting, ever living and ever increasing, and master of its wish, when the dead will rise, when life and immortality will come, and the world will be restored at its wish; 90. When the creation will grow deathless, - the prosperous creation of the Good Spirit, - and the Druj shall perish, though she may rush on every side to kill the holy beings; she and her hundredfold brood shall perish, as it is the will of the Lord. For its brightness and glory, I will offer it a sacrifice .... - Zam Yasht 15.88-90

Maybe you're the Saoshyant or Comforter????

Thank you for your post, mojo, but I wouldn't call me a Saoshyant. I'm merely looking out for my peeps, both those living and those to come. Jesus says if we had the faith of a grain of mustard seed that we would say to the mountain: "Be the removed" and it would be removed. We are what we are - born to be great, born to love, born to overcome and live an abundant life. THAT is who we are and we need to have faith in that. We are not inherently wicked as some believe, nor are we hopeless. We are children of the most high, created to know unsurpassed greatness. We just need ample faith in order to become all we were born to be.


Your post reminds me of a passage in Romans:


For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worth comparing with the glory that is to be revealed in us. For the creation waits with eager longing for the revealing of the sons of God. For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of him who subjected it, in hope that the creation itself will be set free from its bondage to corruption and obtain the freedom of the glory of the children of God.


Let it be! I'm not familiar with your tradition, so I may need to become familiar with what your tradition teaches. It sounds like we are largely on the same page, though.

 

[Gatekeeper]

Christ Jesus never died, and the Parousia never ended.

Spiritually or physically? I would agree that Jesus lives on in spirit, but what of his earthen vessel? I'm not sure where I stand in regard to the resurrection. I don't think it important, but at the same time I don't deny it. I simply wasn't there. I think his life purpose is what matters most, and that we can lean much from his teachings.

 

[radarmark]

This is a matter of beleif, not science. I think it makes sense that whenever one or more believers are gathered in H!s name Christ Jesus is literally there. That means what it means (and is not refering to physicality).

Parousia refers to the actual coming of Christ Jesus, whom I believe never left. Much like epiphany, which refers to H!s manifestation (that of G!d in everything), or apocalypse, which refers to the revelation of the unseen, or logos, meaning the divine template, or exegesis, the critical interpretation of the Kosmos. I use each of these terms in a Heraclitian way based on the "best reading" of his fragments. Of course RAW and PKD (Wilson and Dick two of my fav American thinkers) have also influenced my use.

Need further illumination of this?

 

[Princely]

The son of man will come at a time you least expect.

"I'm going to make right a measuring line and justice a level".says the Lord

"My chosen ones shall inherit the land, my servants shall dwell there.
my servants shall eat, but you shall go hungry; My servants shall drink, but you shall be thirsty; My servants shall rejoice, but you shall be put to shame;
My servants shall shout for joy of heart, But you shall cry out for grief of heart and howl for anguish of spirit.
The Lord God shall slay you, and the name you leave Shall be used by my chosen ones for cursing; but my servants shall be called by another name
By which he will be blessed on whom a blessing is invoked in the land; He who takes an oath in the land shall swear by the God of truth; For the hardships of the past shall be forgotten, and hidden from my eyes".

Notice in this chapter how Jesus refers to the son of man as HE and not I. In fact most of the time in referring to the son of man Jesus refers to him as he and not I. There is a reason that you must find out for yourself.
Matt 24;
1 As Jesus came out of the temple and was going away, his disciples came to point out to him the buildings of the temple. 2 Then he asked them, "You see all these, do you not? Truly I tell you, not one stone will be left here upon another; all will be thrown down." 3 When he was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to him privately, saying, "Tell us, when will this be, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age?" 4 Jesus answered them, "Beware that no one leads you astray. 5 For many will come in my name, saying, "I am the Messiah!' and they will lead many astray. 6 And you will hear of wars and rumors of wars; see that you are not alarmed; for this must take place, but the end is not yet. 7 For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom, and there will be famines and earthquakes in various places: 8 all this is but the beginning of the birth pangs. 9 "Then they will hand you over to be tortured and will put you to death, and you will be hated by all nations because of my name. 10 Then many will fall away, and they will betray one another and hate one another. 11 And many false prophets will arise and lead many astray. 12 And because of the increase of lawlessness, the love of many will grow cold. 13 But the one who endures to the end will be saved. 14 And this good news of the kingdom will be proclaimed throughout the world, as a testimony to all the nations; and then the end will come. 15 "So when you see the desolating sacrilege standing in the holy place, as was spoken of by the prophet Daniel (let the reader understand), 16 then those in Judea must flee to the mountains; 17 the one on the housetop must not go down to take what is in the house; 18 the one in the field must not turn back to get a coat. 19 Woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing infants in those days! 20 Pray that your flight may not be in winter or on a sabbath. 21 For at that time there will be great suffering, such as has not been from the beginning of the world until now, no, and never will be. 22 And if those days had not been cut short, no one would be saved; but for the sake of the elect those days will be cut short. 23 Then if anyone says to you, "Look! Here is the Messiah!' or "There he is!'—do not believe it. 24 For false messiahs and false prophets will appear and produce great signs and omens, to lead astray, if possible, even the elect. 25 Take note, I have told you beforehand. 26 So, if they say to you, "Look! He is in the wilderness,' do not go out. If they say, "Look! He is in the inner rooms,' do not believe it. 27 For as the lightning comes from the east and flashes as far as the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man. 28 Wherever the corpse is, there the vultures will gather. 29 "Immediately after the suffering of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of heaven will be shaken. 30 Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see "the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven' with power and great glory. 31 And he will send out his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. 32 "From the fig tree learn its lesson: as soon as its branch becomes tender and puts forth its leaves, you know that summer is near. 33 So also, when you see all these things, you know that he is near, at the very gates. 34 Truly I tell you, this generation will not pass away until all these things have taken place. 35 Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will not pass away. 36 "But about that day and hour no one knows, neither the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father. 37 For as the days of Noah were, so will be the coming of the Son of Man.

 

[mojobadshah]

Thank you for your post, mojo, but I wouldn't call me a Saoshyant.

Don't sell yourself short. Arguably, the term Saoshyant may be considered equivalent to terms like Christian, referring to any advocate of the good principle in the monotheistic context, and though I think it would be harder to define the term any more loosely Joseph Campbell and I'm sure many Zarathushtrians out there would agree that there is a cosmic battle between Holy Spirit and Hostile Spirit going on in the universe and "each of us is invited" to participate in the battle.

Let it be! I'm not familiar with your tradition, so I may need to become familiar with what your tradition teaches. It sounds like we are largely on the same page, though.

It's the Aryan tradition.

This is a matter of beleif, not science.

It's a matter of fiction not fact. If you're going to confuse fiction as fact then the real scientists will tell you that your belief is delusional.

 

[radarmark]

You are entitled to that opinion, mojobadshah. Let me point out that there has always been (and I believe will always be) a division between what is empirical (not fact, as you put it, but rather that which is discovered through the senses) and what is rational (not testable or falsifiable in the world). I was speaking to the latter.

To limit oneself to empirical phenomena is to miss out on the truly wonderful things, like beauty, love, justice, the beyond (the Divine). None of these are in any way related to what you call "truth". Sorry, I stand by a long line of Spiritual Scientists (from Alhazen to Fr. Michael Heller) who would totally disagree with your point. Spririruality is not delusion, my friend.

 

[mojobadshah]

You are entitled to that opinion, mojobadshah. Let me point out that there has always been (and I believe will always be) a division between what is empirical (not fact, as you put it, but rather that which is discovered through the senses) and what is rational (not testable or falsifiable in the world). I was speaking to the latter.

To limit oneself to empirical phenomena is to miss out on the truly wonderful things, like beauty, love, justice, the beyond (the Divine). None of these are in any way related to what you call "truth". Sorry, I stand by a long line of Spiritual Scientists (from Alhazen to Fr. Michael Heller) who would totally disagree with your point. Spririruality is not delusion, my friend.

Is essentially what your saying: there is no line between the physical reality and our imagination?

 

[radarmark]

No, "physical reality" is something we hypothecize due to a certain interaction through the senses. Physical reality is thus empirical and testible and falsifiable. But it is a small part of reality. Math, logic, philosophy, reflexion (thinking hard and long about something) are informational entities (or mental entities). Spiritual experiences are spiritual entities.

There are three different "kinds of being". "Love" is not a product of our imagination, it is an actual occurance (entity or experience)... but it has no empirical or sensory cause. Rather it is a mental creation.

This is hard for me because I do not "see" reality that way, I am trying to respond within your frame-of-reference. I believe the Kosmos (everything there is) is a society of experiences that may or may not have physical, mental or spiritual components.

It is not that there is not a line, but it is not physical--because many entities (or experiences) have no physicality at all. The difference between physical reality and the Kosmos (which by my definition includes the experiences I or you have in our imagination) is that one is limited to "things we can kick" the other is not.

 

[Saltmeister]

Christ Jesus never died, and the Parousia never ended.

Isn't that more true of say ...... Menachem Schneerson? Not truly dead, just alive somewhere out of sight.

If Jesus didn't die, there'd be no resurrection.

The difference between Jesus and Menachem Schneerson is that, from what I've heard, Schneerson was never buried, placed in a tomb or got a funeral. Technically, Jesus died and Schneerson didn't.

 

[mojobadshah]

No, "physical reality" is something we hypothecize due to a certain interaction through the senses. Physical reality is thus empirical and testible and falsifiable. But it is a small part of reality. Math, logic, philosophy, reflexion (thinking hard and long about something) are informational entities (or mental entities). Spiritual experiences are spiritual entities.

There are three different "kinds of being". "Love" is not a product of our imagination, it is an actual occurance (entity or experience)... but it has no empirical or sensory cause. Rather it is a mental creation.

This is hard for me because I do not "see" reality that way, I am trying to respond within your frame-of-reference. I believe the Kosmos (everything there is) is a society of experiences that may or may not have physical, mental or spiritual components.

It is not that there is not a line, but it is not physical--because many entities (or experiences) have no physicality at all. The difference between physical reality and the Kosmos (which by my definition includes the experiences I or you have in our imagination) is that one is limited to "things we can kick" the other is not.

It's an intriguing outlook, but I wouldn't get carried away. There is a reason it hurts you place your hand in a fire and it doesn't hurt in the same way when you just think about it. It's because the fire is really there and not in your mind. The distinction between mind and body has been around as far back as Zarathushtra who spoke of both the Spiritual World [Menog] and the Material World [Getig]. Today we would call these existences the psyche and the physical. Heart, soul, and mind are all essentially different expressions of the same thing. They are products of the psyche. Emotions like love are a product of the psyche. The physical is equated with the body. The body and the mind world may be linked, but there is a difference.

 

[radarmark]

The concept of experience predates that by quite awhile (the history of taoism and heraclituian thought show that). No, today "we" do not call these "psyche and physical". We (philosophers or students of philosophy) call this process philosophy and post-modern metaphysics. Just because you do not know or understand some system does not mean it is the product of someone's "imagination".

You are entitled to believe that mind and body are separate, but then you fall prey to the inevitable problem that if they are distinct and not inter-related, skepticism and scientism win. Read (or google) Pragmatism, Process Philodophy, the mind-body problem, Leibnitz, Whitehead, Stapp, Penrose and DF Finkelstein--all of whom thought (or think) as I do.

We can continue this exploration and education, but I suggest you adopt a more open mind.

 

[Amergin]

If Jesus came back and preached his quotes (the red words) in the 4 gospels, the US Republican Party would accuse him of the following.

1. Jesus talks like a socialist and liberal.
2. Jesus fed the starving.
3. Jesus told the rich to give to the poor. (Socialist Wealth redistribution.)
4. Jesus incited class warfare. (The poor are jealous.)
5. Jesus condemned greed (offending Corporate Republicans.)
6. Jesus practicing medicine without charging a fee.
7. Jesus practiced exorcism which would scare Newt Gingrich.
8. Jesus castigated the wealthy (eye of the needle allegory.)
9. Jesus was a bleeding heart LIBERAL.
10. Jesus said give to Caesar...) = tax Liberal.
11. Jesus had excessive skin melanin and black curly hair.

Republican plan:

1. Deny Jesus an American visa. He is a dangerous radical.
2. Classify Jesus as born in Palestine.
3. All Palestinians are potential terrorists.
4. Arrest Jesus for assaulting Megachurch Pastors with a whip.
5. Accuse Jesus of trying to unionize carpenters.

 

[donnann]

Sooo many are still waiting after all! I've been thinking about this and thought I'd share my view. Jesus was no different than us (Hebrews 2:16-18), thus what he did we can do also, and even greater things than him (John 14:12). He grew in stature and in wisdom (Luke 2:52), just as we grow in stature and in wisdom. He learned obedience through suffering, and was made perfect through the temptations he himself suffered (Hebrew 5:8-10). We do the same.



This is God's plan of salvation. We are born natural (first man/Adam) and it is through the testing of life and the things we learn in life, coupled with the Holy Spirit (love) that we ourselves are made perfect (1 Corinthians 15:45-49). It takes some hard knocks in life for us to gain knowledge, and it takes love to lead us home. We are not born carnal or bad, but rather we are born ignorant, which is why we are destroyed (lack of knowledge). We learn as we grow and live. Jesus did the same.



Jesus (the son of man) represents all of us, and Jesus (son of God) represents who we become after being reborn of the Holy Spirit (love). Hos 4:6 suggests that we are killed for lack of knowledge. In other words, we are destroyed because we are ignorant. It is ignorance that leads to our destruction and it is love (the Spirit) that leads us to life.



Is Jesus coming back? I’ll quote Jesus to answer the question directly:



“If ye love me, keep my commandments. And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter that he may abide with you forever; Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it sees him not, neither knows him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you. I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you. Yet a little while, and the world will see me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also. At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you".



Perhaps Jesus has already returned. :sigh: He lives in the hearts of those who have been born again. Those who have been born again of the Spirit are his body on earth (1 Corinthians 12:27). It is written that God is love, that Jesus embodied God's fullness, and even as the Father lived in him, so also does he live in us. So, instead of waiting for him, maybe we should let him rule in us as love ...

The earthly universe is created in the image of the CENTER of the heavenly universe. This universe is center. Prior to JESUS incarnation he did have a prehuman body , which by the way had literal wings and was much much much bigger and made up of more light than the human body. Thats the difference between heavenly beings and earthly ones and the hearts which goes hand in hand with anatomy stuff. Heavenly beings hearts are literally in the center of the chest. So he attained a human body for the purpose of union of human body soul and spirit which is separate due to the fall but that body was raised up and the human spirit and soul of it made one with that body for salvation. So as you can see jesus is the same but also has some differences. However just because heavenly beings have hearts in the center doesnt mean there is not opposites as in mates.

 

[Princely]

Jesus said also; When he comes, the Spirit of truth, he will guide you to all truth. He will not speak on his own, but he will speak what he hears, and will declare to you the things that are coming.
He will glorify me, because he will take from what is mine and declare it to you.

This is how the spirit of truth does it.

Thus says the Lord of Hosts;

My people perish for lack of knowledge! Since you have rejected knowledge, I will reject you from my priesthood; Since you have ignored the law of your God, I will also ignore your sons.
One and all they sin against me, exchanging their glory for shame.

For this reason I smote them through the prophets, I slew them by the words of my mouth;
For it is love that I desire, not sacrifice, and knowledge of God rather than holocausts.

Sow justice for yourselves , reap the fruit of piety; Break up for yourselves a new field, for it is time to seek the Lord, till he come and rain down justice upon you."

You shall return by the help of your God, if you remain loyal and do right and always hope in your God.

Let him who is wise understand these things; let him who is prudent know them. Straight are the paths of the Lord, in them the just walk, but sinners stumble in them.

I will go back to my place until they pay for their guilt and seek my presence.

My teaching is not my own it comes from the one who sent me.
Whoever chooses to do his will shall know about this teaching namely, whether it comes from God or whether I‘m speaking on my own.
Whoever speaks on his own seeks his own glory, but whoever seeks the glory of the one who sent him is truthful, and there is no dishonesty in his heart.
Stop judging by appearances, judge justly.
Yet I did not come on my own, the one who is true sent me, Him you do not know.
I know him, because I come from him, he’s the one who sent me.

I am the bread of life; whoever comes to me will never hunger, and whoever believes in me will never thirst.
Everything that the Lord gives me will come to me, and I will not reject anyone who comes to me,
because I came down from heaven not to do my own will but the will of the one who sent me.
And this is the will of the one who sent me, that I should lose nothing of what he gave me, but that I should raise it on the last day.
For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in him possesses eternal life, and I shall raise him on the last day.
No one can come to me unless the Lord who sent me draws him, and I will raise him on the last day.

I am son of man, Jesus sent me. Unless you come to believe I Am you will surely die in your sins.

 

[niimmm]

Of course Jesus is coming back, but as a Christian I would say that wouldn't i?
From the very earlies years the apostles were encouraging people to hold firm to the faith when the first christian generation was begining to die off.

"Even so, when you see these things happening, you know that it is near, right at the door. I tell you the truth, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened. Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away."

Simon

 

[donnann]

Of course Jesus is coming back, but as a Christian I would say that wouldn't i?
From the very earlies years the apostles were encouraging people to hold firm to the faith when the first christian generation was begining to die off.

"Even so, when you see these things happening, you know that it is near, right at the door. I tell you the truth, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened. Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away."

Simon

I think hes already on earth somewhere.

 

[donnann]

Sooo many are still waiting after all! I've been thinking about this and thought I'd share my view. Jesus was no different than us (Hebrews 2:16-18), thus what he did we can do also, and even greater things than him (John 14:12). He grew in stature and in wisdom (Luke 2:52), just as we grow in stature and in wisdom. He learned obedience through suffering, and was made perfect through the temptations he himself suffered (Hebrew 5:8-10). We do the same.



This is God's plan of salvation. We are born natural (first man/Adam) and it is through the testing of life and the things we learn in life, coupled with the Holy Spirit (love) that we ourselves are made perfect (1 Corinthians 15:45-49). It takes some hard knocks in life for us to gain knowledge, and it takes love to lead us home. We are not born carnal or bad, but rather we are born ignorant, which is why we are destroyed (lack of knowledge). We learn as we grow and live. Jesus did the same.



Jesus (the son of man) represents all of us, and Jesus (son of God) represents who we become after being reborn of the Holy Spirit (love). Hos 4:6 suggests that we are killed for lack of knowledge. In other words, we are destroyed because we are ignorant. It is ignorance that leads to our destruction and it is love (the Spirit) that leads us to life.



Is Jesus coming back? I’ll quote Jesus to answer the question directly:



“If ye love me, keep my commandments. And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter that he may abide with you forever; Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it sees him not, neither knows him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you. I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you. Yet a little while, and the world will see me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also. At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you".



Perhaps Jesus has already returned. :sigh: He lives in the hearts of those who have been born again. Those who have been born again of the Spirit are his body on earth (1 Corinthians 12:27). It is written that God is love, that Jesus embodied God's fullness, and even as the Father lived in him, so also does he live in us. So, instead of waiting for him, maybe we should let him rule in us as love ...

What about fulfillment of daniel 12. It states and michael shall stand up. A standing up is a resurrection. It also states during this time the people shall be delivered which means they will be resurrected with him. Good point for rapture as well. This prophecy has yet to be fulfilled and Michael is an Archangel firstborn heavenly son of god.