What is the essence of all religions?

[NiceCupOfTea]

Certainly. Let's go back to the basics--toilet training. Developing self-control is involved in toilet training. It involves knowing when to grasp (not deficating just anywhere) and when to release (knowing to use the toilet when deficating)--aka wei-wu-wei. Once this is mastered, deficating in the appropriate place will become effortless. As Lunitik pointed out earlier, wearing a diaper by one that is not toilet trained is not repression, but tying a child to the toilet would be repressive. Not allowing a child to deficate at all would certainly be repressive. Helping a child to develop self control in regards to this is actually freeing to the child, not repressive to the child.

I hope that helps.

i see what you mean, although please dont quote nutlik
to me again

so sticking with the analogy of toilet habits self control would be normal bowel movements not diarrhea or constipation.

 

[seattlegal]

i see what you mean, although please dont quote nutlik
to me again

lol, ok.

so sticking with the analogy of toilet habits self control would be normal bowel movements not diarrhea or constipation.

It's "knowing when to grasp, and when to release" --wei wu wei. The degree that an individual can accomplish this will vary according to the individual's development, abilities, and the actual condition at hand.

 

[seattlegal]

As Lunitik pointed out earlier, wearing a diaper by one that is not toilet trained is not repression, but tying a child to the toilet would be repressive. Not allowing a child to deficate at all would certainly be repressive.

Small correction: these would be oppressive acts, not repressive acts.

 

[luecy7]

One meets G!d, then one tries to emulate the experience. Hmmm.... since G1d is love, it would seem to me that the Golden Rule (in whatever form from Zoroastrian to Daoist) is an obvious place to start. If the experience of G!d is love (as someone said), the statement "[t]hat nature alone is good which refrains from doing to another whatsoever is not good for itself" is a pretty good place to start for it, to me would seem that to love one must first refrain from doing harm (or not good) first.

Perhaps it is a start to recognize that one is working as a member, employing their heart, mind, and soul, to do harm (or not good), upon others. That would require doing some things.

 

[radarmark]

That emulation is the problem, you "meet God" exactly because you have let go entirely that moment and it has stopped because you have returned. Now, you want to return to that state, but you want to bring your ego into it, it has become the desire of the ego and yet it is because the ego has dropped that it happened. Can you see the foolishness? Even that it is God you met, this in fact is a notion in the mind, the happening has no words, it does not call itself God...

You speak for only yourself. If the goal is to go beyond (this means the same as my term G!d). You create the duality, you create the conflict because you cannot appreciate any other view but your own. This entire paragraph is about how you fell, not I. I use the terms a lttle differently and do not make the obvious mistake of falling for the fallacy of misplaced concreteness (mistaking the abstract for the actual).

This is exactly what I go on saying, mind cannot be there in the search. I go on saying that mind must be killed, the little mind, the ego must certainly be killed - the private thinking you have must cease. What I call no-mind is the termination of the little mind, but of course there is the Mind, the universal consciousness which is still there.

Duh! When one returns from being beyond and tries to communicate with others one must remember that your experience is not another's. This is precisely what the Pali canon says and is repeated by Hui-neng and Marpa.

People seem scared that if the personal mind dies, there will be no way to function in the world. It is not like this, in fact the personal mind has never been the one doing anything - it only identifies with what is happening. You cannot know anything of religiousness through the personal mind, it is because it is exactly the barrier, the nature of illusion. Even Jesus says this by instructing you to drop personal will and do the will of God, it means the same. Also, it states you must take on the mind which was also in Jesus, it is the same thing. Most important, it says you must hate your own life to be Jesus' disciple, all this is pertinent to the topic.

This is not pertinent, and has nothing to do with the innate goodness and love proposed in the Golden Rule (which exists even in Confucianism, Daoism and oh, Buddhism ("Hurt not others in ways that you yourself would find hurtful" Udanavarga 5:18). Stick to the topic. If you reject the Golden Rule, then you directly reject the Buddha. One cannot have it both ways.

Instead, we go on trying to fix the personal mind, the ego, and wonder why nothing is happening. Every war that has ever been fought has happened because both sides believe they are doing the right thing, there has never been a war where one side wasn't quite sure it was worth while or righteous. The personal mind is always striving to be more, the universal mind is always everything...

Irrelevant and I agree

If you want to live in God's presence, you must not permit the personal mind to rule you, it wants to be like the universal mind but it doesn't know how, it goes on gathering things and ideas but the universal mind is already in everything. You realize you were never something other than God once you drop the personal endeavors, this is awakening, God is Dharmakaya - your truth body.

Again, irrelevant and I agree. The topic is the Golden Rule (see above).

It is just foolish to improve that which is the basis of all problems, just drop it and the problems drop with it. Instead, we go on clinging to it, we think it is us, we even protect it not realizing it is the nature of all our problems. Will you trust God - life, existence, love - to guard over your affairs and give yourself utterly as you believe yourself to be? You are only offering fallacy, but in giving up all that is false there is only truth left...

Know yourself in Dharmakaya, stop living as something separate.

You say so much about your problems, I cannot help but reply. Not everyone sees G!d the way you do. So what? It does not make everyone wrong. As shown above you are even being inconsistent to Buddhism.

 

[luecy7]

I post what is liberating, how you view it is on you. No, even what I say is clearly stupid to me, but this is the price to actually communicate.

Are you taking responsibility for your words now? Fabrication does have pitfalls.

You are not healthy at all though, how can you say the golden rule assists with health? You cannot even run with a smoker around your block...

An ankle biter had degraded my health.

The human body is a machine, but the consciousness is not a machine and trees contain the same consciousness that we do. This is why I raised the topic in the car, I could sense their happiness as we passed, their dancing delighted me and I wanted you to at least acknowledge them.

Do the trees deny responsibility for their actions, as you have?

The Golden Rule simply creates fake people, and you are one of the most repressed people I have ever come in contact with, so you are a great example of its damages.

You are sharing a new word, and I believe you have the best word to focus on: Repressed.

What do you think repressed the most? Did I repress you, or did I repress my self? Was I repressed by the golden rule, or by you?

In my view, I think you have shared the word that best describes what I have seen of you. Meditation: qwell the mind to a near death experience. History: forget about it. Relationships: Why? Education: For what? Serving others: Theft of your freedom. Manners: Rules suck. A history that you would prefer to forget: Check. Taking responsibility for your actions: Of course not. Mobility: Self limited. Accusing others of hampering your mobility: Absolutely. Income: Two parents working full time. Job: Where is the freedom in that?

 

[Bhaktajan II]

Originally Posted by luecy7

Meditation: qwell the mind to a near death experience.
History: forget about it.
Relationships: Why?
Education: For what?
Serving others: Theft of your freedom.
Manners: Rules suck.
A history that you would prefer to forget: Check.
Taking responsibility for your actions: Of course not.
Mobility: Self limited.
Accusing others of hampering your mobility: Absolutely.
Income: Two parents working full time.
Job: Where is the freedom in that?

luecy 7's Compassionate tough love.
Human bio-feedback data into the bargain.

I'm pretty sure that's legitimately called 'Psycho-analysis'.

 

[Lunitik]

Are you taking responsibility for your words now? Fabrication does have pitfalls.

What have I fabricated?

An ankle biter had degraded my health.

Explains why you were puffing and panting...

Do the trees deny responsibility for their actions, as you have?

What actions have I denied responsibility for?

You are sharing a new word, and I believe you have the best word to focus on: Repressed.

What do you think repressed the most? Did I repress you, or did I repress my self? Was I repressed by the golden rule, or by you?

I have not repressed myself at all, and why you have been repressed is of no consequence, the effects of your repression are plain and clear in everything about you. It is exactly this which I have been trying to point at since I got home, you are not a natural person, you are not really alive.

Meditation: qwell the mind to a near death experience.

Then you do not even know what meditation is, you have not seen me outside the meditative state.

History: forget about it.

I do not forget history, it simply is no longer relevant at all.

Relationships: Why?

Again, you misunderstand me, I do not cling to relationships, but I enjoy them while they are there.

Education: For what?

When have I said this? I have said acquiring knowledge isn't going to help finding truth, but this only shows you don't know what education means. Education is not about cramming nonsense in yourself, the word means 'to draw out' and this is exactly what I go on doing.

Serving others: Theft of your freedom.

Again, you show your lack of comprehension. I have not said serving others is a lack of freedom, I have said it is meaningless to serve people out of obligation or to gain something for yourself. I go on helping people simply because there is the chance to help - for instance I helped an old lady bringing a table into her home while simply coming back from the store. It has to be a natural arising, not an endeavor.

Manners: Rules suck.

Have I been rude in your house? I say rules are not necessary because these things should arise naturally.

A history that you would prefer to forget: Check.

A lack of dealing with your cheating on your wife: obvious.

Taking responsibility for your actions: Of course not.

Still with her because you lack any spine: yup, despite how unhappy you both are.

Mobility: Self limited.

I was in another city on your request...

Accusing others of hampering your mobility: Absolutely.

Did you not? We didn't leave the house other than to go to your job...

Income: Two parents working full time.

Certainly, they have been a blessing.

Job: Where is the freedom in that?

Do you have any freedom? You barely know your own children. I would rather starve to death doing something I love than waste my life doing what you do. You think it is respectable, but you have no life at all, you do nothing for fun. You really think you are an example for how to live life? You don't live, you just survive, and it is because of your utter lack of love.

 

[Lunitik]

A baby's nature is to deficate whenever and whenever the need arises. As the child gain self-control, it can limit defication to the proper time and place. A baby deficating just anywhere is not beautifying its environment.

The child has not learned self-control, it has learned awareness and the ability to respond effectively. The child does not deficate less as he grows older, and holding it is actually very unhealthy, but the adult is able to find an appropriate exhaust point...

Knowing when to grasp and when to let go and let nature take over--wei wu wei--is a sort of division and action of mind that transforms ones nature.

You show your lack of understanding of wei wu wei here, it is active inaction... it means to allow everything to arise without trying for anything in particular. It is like breathing, it goes on happening and yet you are not doing it... as you go deeper into enlightenment you experience divine animation, eventually this becomes total. This is wei wu wei.

Then why did you blame "society" for murders when each individual case must be examined?

Because I am addressing that society.

It seems that you are pushing mindlessness rather than what you claim.

It would seem that way to you, but where is the need to think? It only means your response time is delayed.

Not all actions lead to "beautification."

Then I suggest looking at your actions a little closer.

An attempt to encourage you engage brain on my part.

Brain is engaged, mind is simply bypassed, but apparently you think the two are not separate? The brain is a bio-computer, it is helpful, but the mind creates all problems in life - your identification with it. Utilize the brain, but what is it fundamentally? It is just a point of much electric activity in the human body, just like a computer, and it consists of nothing but dense energy like everything else. I only try to show people they are not something dense, they are the most subtle thing in existence: awareness.

Indeed, it frees the child from the worst consequences of acting on its true nature and deficating whereever within its environment.

I see nothing wrong with the child deficating wherever it wants, it would provide fertilizer if it is outside, but our need to create an inside has made it a difficult thing for the child and our other animals.

Translation: I can't be bothered with organizing my thoughts in a cohesive manner. That would require mind....

I did it twice in the thread... just read those posts ffs

 

[Lunitik]

Here, since its so hard, let me show you the posts:

If you are compassionate at all, you will want everyone to be themselves with you, and thus you will be utterly yourself with them.

Instead, the Golden Rule is applied to social constructs of politeness, it wants everyone to be basically repressed and this is the whole reason society is so sick at this time. It is used in utterly the wrong way, and this is supposed to be a moralistic and ethical teaching, it has become the ultimate disgusting statement.

Why is society so against authenticity and spontaneity? We go on telling each other how to be, no one knows who they even are anymore, they become just an extension of the views others have about them and they consciously attempt to live up to their expectations.

The Golden Rule is the worst thing to become popular in history because its basic premise is beautiful, but the attention it has been given by the mediocre masses means it has become utterly twisted.

Of course, the Golden Rule is idiotic because it depends on a false notion, that is simply why it has become something utterly unhealthy.

For me, there is no reason to teach the ignorant through false statements, it is only necessary to remove the ignorance and all falls into place naturally. Understanding there is no separation between yourself and the other, what the Golden Rule points at becomes something utterly obvious. It is only necessary to teach at all because your minds are basically divided, but it is the notion of division which needs to be corrected.

The Golden Rule reinforces division by the back door.

It is no surprise you do not understand why intolerance has to happen before tolerance can be considered though, it is all interrelated. If you are actually open to another view, where does the tolerance come from? It is fundamentally a recognition that you differ but will be respectful about it, you are not willing to accept their perspective, you're just allowing them to be heard.

 

[Bhaktajan II]

So We have an unanimous consensus.

One must acknowledge the problem first ---then proceed to remedy it.

We humans are in the conditioned state of life here in the material world of samsara & maya, our knowledge is subjected to many deficiencies.

The difference between a conditioned soul and a liberated soul is that the conditioned soul has four kinds of defects.

Defect #1 = he must commit mistakes.

Defect #2 = to be illusioned.

Defect #3 = the cheating propensity.

Defect #4 = our senses are imperfect.

 

[Lunitik]

So We have an unanimous consensus.

One must acknowledge the problem first ---then proceed to remedy it.

The enlightened man knows no problems, he is the remedy.

 

[Lunitik]

The biggest difference between us, Rob, is you believe you are a good person because you help people, I am simply thankful someone let me help. Your deeds make you feel needed, you make others dependent on you, and this you find praiseworthy, it fuels your ego. For me, the reward is in the deed, because I simply enjoy helping people, making others lives easier, there is no question of myself getting something out of it.

You think you are a good person because you follow the law too, but you need the law to do what is right. You miss this point, it is just another social construct like your idealizing of working, you are giving away part of your life because you have things you want but there is no time to enjoy them. I simply enjoy life directly, I do not need things to make my life better. You have even commented that you do not agree with Open Source because people don't make enough money from it, I think IBM, Google, Facebook, Twitter, Amazon, Yahoo, Oracle, HP, all these companies seem to be doing just fine through their use of Open Source, many large businesses today would not even be possible without Open Source.

I could have set up a Wordpress instance for your site so it didn't look so cheap, I could have set up a small cluster with phpBB or similar for your forums idea, and what would cost you a few thousand a year on Windows would have been free - except for the price of the domain. Now you can put something like AdSense - which runs on Open Source systems - onto the forum and you could have made money from it just like everyone else. Open Source is about the entire technology industry working together to create something better together, but you prefer one company to control everything. This is fundamentally your entire problem, you think control is meaningful, you would rather control than liberate, you would rather stifle anothers freedom rather than have everyone benefit from you without any direct reward for you personally.

Here is a fairly complete list of people profiting from and contributing to Open Source, but that doesn't even include the start ups, innovating in ways that would be impossible without the FOSS movement. No single company is doing as much for the global economy in a positive way than Open Source.

 

[Lunitik]

Open Source is no less than the greatest thing to ever happen in the tech industry, and it is exactly because it causes the entire industry to unify their R&D to the benefit of each other.

Here is another list of companies working together on something truly innovative that no single company could ever pull off. Here is another list of companies that would be impossible without this sharing. You talk against this ultimate in sharing, yet you want me to respect your notions of what it means to be a good person? Here is another group of companies profiting from and investing in open source, please browse each link on the left. All these companies are benefiting from each other, it is truly a beautiful thing and it is driving the whole industry forward.

For you, this is not a good thing, for me, I wish all of society was more like this. Individual entities scratching their own itch and allowing everyone else to benefit from their work, instead the world is basically greedy and wants to keep everything for themselves - this is what is wrong in the world, but you put down one of the leading movements to fix it.

 

[Lunitik]

Each and every company listed is making at least as much as your company is worth annually from open source software, yet they give away their technology because they benefit from others who do the same, you keep your technology utterly secret and yet you cannot really say what exactly is the benefit of it. The planes can still fly with the dents, it is just something cosmetic according to you, yet even this you protect.

How many people do you suppose Facebook or Google have made millionaires? Both are impossible without Linux and the open source movement around them. How many app developers do you think are earning a good living on Android or Google AppEngine or Facebook's App Framework? Zynga purely profits from Facebook traffic and they are going to be a multi-billion dollar company soon - just app creators on the web. Everyone involved can clearly see the benefit to their bottom line, and there are more and more companies coming about that depend entirely on Open Source to make their business even plausible.

Open Source is exactly why the web has gone from this to this. Both are simply web sites, but everything that allows the latter to be so much better has been developed in the open and is available as source code in projects like Mozilla Firefox and Chromium. If we'd left it to Apple or Microsoft the web platform would be nothing today because their basic business practice is about locking you into their platforms, about controlling the customer.

Freeing people to innovate is what the Open Source movement is all about, companies use patents and the like to make innovation impossible.

 

[Bhaktajan II]

Why is the Bot Spamming? This is NOT a Rhetorical Question!
Why is the Bot Spamming? This is NOT a Rhetorical Question!
Why is the Bot Spamming? This is NOT a Rhetorical Question!
Why is the Bot Spamming? This is NOT a Rhetorical Question!
Why is the Bot Spamming? This is NOT a Rhetorical Question!
Why is the Bot Spamming? This is NOT a Rhetorical Question!
Why is the Bot Spamming? This is NOT a Rhetorical Question!
Why is the Bot Spamming? This is NOT a Rhetorical Question!
Why is the Bot Spamming? This is NOT a Rhetorical Question!
Why is the Bot Spamming? This is NOT a Rhetorical Question!
Why is the Bot Spamming? This is NOT a Rhetorical Question!
Why is the Bot Spamming? This is NOT a Rhetorical Question!
Why is the Bot Spamming? This is NOT a Rhetorical Question!
Why is the Bot Spamming? This is NOT a Rhetorical Question!
Why is the Bot Spamming? This is NOT a Rhetorical Question!
Why is the Bot Spamming? This is NOT a Rhetorical Question!

 

[Lunitik]

The internet IS the Open Source client platform.

The original TCP/IP stack was created by BSD developers and open sourced right away, HTML was developed at CERN and open sourced immediately. JavaScript was developed openly and so were the modern JIT's which make it feasible. Many sites use PHP and Python which are both open source languages. Apache is running 75% of all sites and is utterly Open Source, some of their newer innovations like Cassandra and Hadoop atop their Tomcat Application Server make most of todays sites a breeze. Fulfilling modern traffic demands would be almost impossible without things like OpenStack and CloudFoundry. Many sites today use things like Ruby on Rails or Django through the latter, which makes everything infinitely easier scale wise. Things like GWT and YUI make creating webapps infinitely easier.

Everything which runs the Web of today is developed by the Open Source communities... yet, ignorant to this you speak against technology sharing. Can you even remember how useless things used to be in this sector? Now, even animated movies like Toy Story and Nemo are rendered on Open Source clusters using Open Source software like Blender for free. Video games often are rendered by the same means, we'd still be in the days of Duke Nukem if people had to rely on Microsoft prices to render their graphics, now the same sorts of games are handled entirely online. All of this, apparently, you are against because Open Source is no ones property, it is simply shared by a global community for the benefit of all.

 

[Lunitik]

Why is the Bot Spamming? This is NOT a Rhetorical Question!

You are not interested in the topic, here's a hint: Stay out of it.

Luecy7 is a programmer, this is something that came up between us in person. There is no need for your "contribution", it is simply an example of his hypocrisy.

 

[Lunitik]

The greatest thing about Open Source is that you are not stuck with trying to put together what the supplier gives you in an attempt to fulfill your own needs, you can mold the software to exactly fit them. With a proprietary vendor, you have to compromise in certain ways, in open source there is never compromise, there is only mutual benefits. You can simply fork the code if you change it significantly, you can go in an entirely new direction and perhaps merge back together later... there is utter freedom.

You value compromise, I value each person coming to their full potential and compromise makes that impossible. In compromise, each person gets only half of what they desired, the Open Source movement is an example of everyone making each other more rather than less. There is much which can be learned from the way open source works, chief among them is that you don't have to work together to benefit each other, you only have to enable that benefit.

Through this, the Linux kernel supports something like 80 file systems, they all work flawlessly because of the VFS subsystem. There are currently something like 20 hardware platforms whose drivers all work across platforms because of the way it is designed. Not that you'd want to, but now you can put an Nvidia graphics card into an IBM mainframe, just because there is nothing to stop you. The examples go on and on, always the emphasis is on enabling not sacrificing.

There are even forums like this or sites like this where a wide community assists with any issues you might come across, instead of depending on tech support from a company. People volunteer their time - and I have volunteer thousands of hours - to simply assisting people with any problems which might arise in their use of all this software. All of this is then aggregated in places like this so that people can find assistance easier, again all volunteer based. There are even live chat methods like IRC, where currently there are over 1,000 people ready to answer questions in a particular channel. Then, on top of this, there are even people creating scripts through mechanisms like this which as you can see automates almost anything you could want...

This is the way society ought to be, everyone helping each other to do what they want to do, rather than a society of people trying to hold each other back and control each other. Of course, there are rules, but it is mostly just common sense.

 

[radarmark]

I am sorry... is this some SW site? I grok bhaktajan's plea. What do any of Lunitik's posts after #352 have to do with 1) interfaith, 2) Religion, Faith & Theology, 3) Belief & Spirituality and 4) "What is the essence of all religions"?

Can anyone besides Lunitik tell me?

Last and confused.