What is Reality?

Does this have anything to do with this post? I think not. Does it have anything to do with this thread? Same answer.

Sorry. Am by degree and by separations papers from the military a nuclear physicist. Grad degrees in ops research and business analysis.

I do tensor analysis for fun. Et tu, dummy?
 
Oh yeah, you're a heck of an expert, you had no clue what Godel's proof had to do with Physics.

It describes 100% of the math it uses. Including the Quantum Theory. And gives it's eternal limitations.

All of which you are totally oblivous to.
 
The text of neither "Über formal unentscheidbare Sätze der Principia Mathematica und verwandter Systeme" nor "Zum intuitionistischen Aussagenkalkül" mention neither quantum or relativity.

The theorems do apply a limitation to consistency and completeness of both. What that means is that neither quantum nor relativity can be proven consistent or complete within itself.

However, one if free to "pop up" a level and try to make them consistent and complete. That is kind of what thing spinors and M-theory try to do.

It does not mean that all of the contents of quantum or relativity fall under the limitation. Much of each theory (as those of you that read my posts know I believe) are metaphysical.

For instance, neither the principle of relativity nor the uncertainty principle are mathematical formulations (just look them up). Therefore, Goedel does not apply.

Goedel was certainly one of the two of three most brilliant mathematicians of the last century. But that does not mean his incompleteness theorems apply to anything but formal mathematical systems.
 
How many times do I have to post this, Godel has nothing to do with physics,other than putting an end to it, and describing 100% of the math physics uses.

On the intelligibility of the universe and the notions of
simplicity, complexity and irreducibility
Gregory Chaitin, IBM Research Division
Well, if you believe in quantum physics, then Nature plays dice, and
that generates complexity, an infinite amount of it, for example, as
frozen accidents, mutations that are preserved in our DNA. So at
this time most scientists would bet that the universe has infinite
complexity, like O does. But then the world is incomprehensible, or
at least a large part of it will always remain so, the accidental
part, all those frozen accidents, the contingent part.
On the Intelligibility of the Universe

Gödel and the End of Physics
Stephen Hawking
Some people will be very disappointed if there is not an ultimate
theory, that can be formulated as a finite number of principles. I
used to belong to that camp, but I have changed my mind. I'm now
glad that our search for understanding will never come to an end,
and that we will always have the challenge of new discovery. Without
it, we would stagnate. Gödel's theorem ensured there would always be
a job for mathematicians.
http://www.physics.sfasu.edu/astro/news/20030308news/StephenHawking20
030308.htm

No clue whatsoever they are talking about, huh?
 
Those are some people's opinions. Fine. But you misconstrue what they say. They do not say "goedel negates physics" which is what you keep claiming. Chaitin says "if you believe in quantum physics, then Nature plays dice, and
that generates complexity, an infinite amount of it, for example, as
frozen accidents, mutations that are preserved in our DNA." what does that have to do with your point? Nothing.

Oh, unless you do not understand the concepts of consistency and completeness.

Hawking only says what I do... duhh! It is ultimately unknowable. You were the one who implied a connection between Goedel, quantum and relatiovity, not I.

I know very well what they are saying (and do not have to resort to web searches, because I unde3rstand the math and the physics, unlike some). Et tU?
 
radarmark said:
The miracle and dance we see as Reality is a product of the Kosmos our subjective and objective, physical and mental inputs (though I prefer the notion of “actual entities” to include all four things). Our map of it (our notion of Reality) is a product of both this, our perception of it all, our thoughts about it all, our imaginings, and our feelings.

Yes, it is beyond “knowing” if by knowing you mean using mathematics, deductive knowledge, and physical measurements. If rather by knowing, you mean directly experiencing and subjecting those experiences to rigorous scientific methodology, one can say it is knowable.
Click to expand...

A lot of what you point to is not familiar to me, so I'm trying to understand. If I am reading this part correctly, are you saying "reality" is a product of our minds?

If so, I must emphatically disagree. Truth is a product of our minds, tempered with our experiences and indoctrinations.

Reality on the other hand, is the world, solar system, universe and beyond in which we live, along with all of the subtle characteristics of physics that take place on a moment by moment and place by place occurrence. Having our individual truth align as well as can be hoped with reality is a conscious and diligent choice...but even then our predispositions and predilections can get in the way...and that's not counting prejudices!

In short...I understand you to say reality is a creation of our minds. I disagree, reality simply is. With our minds we attempt to grasp reality...but reality is a greased piglet at best.
 
Juantoo? When you are in a dream, how real does it feel? Is it ever only when you wake up you realize it is a dream?

Have you ever had a dream only to 'wake up' into another dream? But thought you had woke up...until a moment later you did?? And then realized you had a dream within a dream?

Don't you ever wonder what we are going to wake up to?
 
Ummm, no. Do other people do this?

When I dream I *usually* (99+% of the time) know I am dreaming. Over the years I've had a handful of prescient dreams that later pointed to real life episodes I call Deja Vu, but those are very rare exceptions, and even then I knew they were dreams.
 
Prior to lucid dreaming....and even still occasionally now I get into dreams that I believe are real...they appear real in all senses accept things happen I cannot explain, but I accept as normal for some reason.

When I was younger...say all the way into my 30's prior to starting lucid dreaming, all my dreams were this way....no matter how bizarre...they were reality....until I awoke.
 
I think there is a great deal of semantic difficulty when speaking of such abstractions as "truth" and "reality." A lot of folks throw the words around with some vague idea of what they represent and presume that the next person understands what they are saying. And then when the(se) word(s) come back around there is the continuing presumption...but when a person takes the time to delve into what folks mean by the terms it quickly becomes clear that the meanings attached range across a wide scope and seldom correspond. I've met plenty of folks to whom "truth" and "reality" were the same thing...so they thought...until they were brought to see the differences.

To my way of thinking..."reality" is. If reality didn't exist then the entire universe, let alone our pitiful lives, would not exist either. The definition of is...is!

Where we run into trouble amongst ourselves is in believing our experiences are the sum total of "real," and therefore "true." Nevermind if our experiences happen to contradict someone else's experience. Experience...in and of itself...it not sufficient to define truth, certainly not to anyone aside from the individual having the specific experience. Science likes to use recreateable experience to denote "fact" (which is their nomenclature for "truth").

And the problem with truth, fact and experience is that all of these are potentially moving targets...depending on how any particular person looks from a given vantage. In all of this, the only constant is reality.
 
Reality is the perception of every thing that exists. To be real is to exist. Since nothing could have caused itself to exist, it is only obvious that what is Real has caused all else to exist.
 
Reality, for most people, is that sliver of the pie that we humans with our stunted senses can actually experience. Why do you suppose that the Gods (if there are Gods) created us with such limitations? Cause there is a complete pie out there (and in here) that we have not been given the ability to experience.

Oh and the pie is apple. Just in case you were wondering.
 
wil said:
What caused G!d to exist? (oh and the universe always was and forever will be...i read it in a book written by the universe)
Click to expand...

God could not have been caused to exist because it would be a contradiction to the concept of causality. The universe cannot be composed of only caused things as there is nothing caused without a cause.
 
Gordian Knot said:
Reality, for most people, is that sliver of the pie that we humans with our stunted senses can actually experience. Why do you suppose that the Gods (if there are Gods) created us with such limitations? Cause there is a complete pie out there (and in here) that we have not been given the ability to experience.

Oh and the pie is apple. Just in case you were wondering.
Click to expand...

All right. So, when you get the ability to experience that "complete pie out there" share with us what you have experienced. Don't forget to let us know what caused that "complete pie out there."
 
Shibolet said:
God could not have been caused to exist because it would be a contradiction to the concept of causality. The universe cannot be composed of only caused things as there is nothing caused without a cause.
Click to expand...

DING DING DING.....

G!d was created by man, to suit man's unknowing.

I see your issue. The same as the Popes with Galileo...that dang telescope and science is shrinking the realm of G!d...

Your rug is being pulled out from under you, and you are desperately holding on, and attempting to see how many you can get to join as well.

Let it go....it is the wrong rug.
 
wil said:
DING DING DING.....

G!d was created by man, to suit man's unknowing.

I see your issue. The same as the Popes with Galileo...that dang telescope and science is shrinking the realm of G!d...

Your rug is being pulled out from under you, and you are desperately holding on, and attempting to see how many you can get to join as well.

Let it go....it is the wrong rug.
Click to expand...

Now, you are implying that man created a god and then decided to create the universe. Who is ding, ding, ding now? You guys are funny!
 
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