life on Mars & old testament creation story
- Thread starter IowaGuy
- Start date
Somewhere along the line...I read of a uppitty up muckety muck from the church (don't know the actual rank or name) that said something along the lines of....'the garden of eden may not have been on earth ( that was regarding intelligent life in another star system)
It poses an interesting question.
From the Christian perspective — or rather the perspective of a traditional metaphysic — humanity is the highpoint of the created order, not just this planet. Similarly, the content of Scripture is looked at from the perspective of nature, that is from a universal viewpoint, and not from the standpoint of a specific person, even if the person in question happens to be Adam, the first man.
Put broadly, when God created the heavens and the earth, all matter comes in under the latter, so 'the earth' stands not just for this planet, but the entire sensible cosmos.
God bless,
Thomas
From the Christian perspective — or rather the perspective of a traditional metaphysic — humanity is the highpoint of the created order, not just this planet. Similarly, the content of Scripture is looked at from the perspective of nature, that is from a universal viewpoint, and not from the standpoint of a specific person, even if the person in question happens to be Adam, the first man.
Put broadly, when God created the heavens and the earth, all matter comes in under the latter, so 'the earth' stands not just for this planet, but the entire sensible cosmos.
God bless,
Thomas
juantoo3
....whys guy.... ʎʇıɹoɥʇnɐ uoıʇsǝnb
I dunno. Haven't got there yet.
My guess is the reaction would be about the same (hypothetically) as smarty pants people coming to terms with the realization there are even more intelligent beings "out there" than us, and that we then have to take our rightful place somewhere farther down the totem pole.
Dream
Well-Known Member
If life on Mars were discovered it would spell doom for the current Genesis Flood group, but someone would come up with something new.
Amica
Well-Known Member
- Messages
- 649
- Reaction score
- 11
- Points
- 18
Not sure about Genesis believers, but my faith has nothing against other life forms existing in the Universe. In fact, Qur'an tells of three kinds of intelligent beings: human kind, jinn kind and the angels. The jinn are the invisibles and live in different dimension than ours. They can see us, but we cannot see them. The same is with the angels. We come in contact, but have separate worlds. I think if life were discovered on Mars, I would be very excited as that would further prove the truth of the Noble Qur'an. The Qur'an also speaks of multiple universes, and seven planets that are like our own. To me personally that means that there exist seven planets in this universe that contains life like our Earth. That is amazing! It is impossible to have this huge universe with just humans being the "highest" intelligent life form created.
*{Allah is He Who created seven Firmaments (heavens) and of the earth a similar number. Through the midst of them (Allah) descends His Command: that ye may know that Allah has power over all things and that Allah comprehends all things in (His) Knowledge.}* (At-Talaq 65: 12)
*{Allah is He Who created seven Firmaments (heavens) and of the earth a similar number. Through the midst of them (Allah) descends His Command: that ye may know that Allah has power over all things and that Allah comprehends all things in (His) Knowledge.}* (At-Talaq 65: 12)
IowaGuy
Hunter-Gatherer
- Messages
- 660
- Reaction score
- 4
- Points
- 0
If there are more intelligent beings than humans in the universe, then are they created in God's image or are we? Why would a being (humans) be created in God's image if we weren't at the top of the totem pole?
Dream
Well-Known Member
Amica, I hope that we can put some of the past conversation behind us. I've been a member for several years here and my views have changed a lot. I'm not someone who trusts in his own point of view as much as he used to. It counts heavily but its not the only thing that counts anymore. Recent years for me have been a spiritually 'Dry' time. That's part of what brought me here, and conversing with spiritual people has been good I think.Amica said:
Angels I've heard of and humankind I've heard of a lot, but the Jinn I've only heard of in stories like Ali Baba and comic books. In stories their role is usually to grant wishes and cause people trouble. A lot of people believe in multiple kinds demons. Some are thought to be rebellious angels, and some are thought to be wandering souls of people from long ago. Generally they were all originally 'Good' beings that for various reasons went bad. Jinn on the other hand are not thought of in any of these ways, usually. They're just story props called 'Genies'. They grant three wishes, and usually in any given story the wisher regrets the first two wishes made to the genie and uses the third to try and remedy the damage done.
Amica
Well-Known Member
- Messages
- 649
- Reaction score
- 11
- Points
- 18
Hi Dream,
The wish granting genies are the imaginations Westerners have about the jinns. However, from a religious perspective the Muslim people have a much different understanding and teaching about them. The Jinn are nothing to joke about, if you are willing to open your mind to the possibility of their existence.
The jinns, according to islamic teachings, are created by smokeless fire. They were created much earlier than humanity. Their habitat used to be the planet Earth and they were Earth's highest intelligent creatures. Jinn's technology and knowledge are more developed than that of humankind to this day. One example is mention of jinn serving King Solomon (prophet Sulayman pbuh, in Islam). The jinn was able to bring Queen Sheeba's throne before Solomon with extreme speed.
The Islamic teaching says that long time ago, the jinns have abused the Earth so much that the Almighty has sent destruction upon them and decided to make the humankind to rule the Earth. Great battle occurred on Earth between Lord's angels and the jinn. Some jinns willingly surrendered and were assisted into a different dimension, others fought to the last. Eventually, the rebels stayed on Earth usually in the worst places (caves, dirty places, etc). To this day, the rebels lead by Satan, according to Islam, wreck havoc with human lives: from demonic possessions to disease. Far from 'genie making 3 wishes.' Rather, they are a force in continual warfare with humanity.
People having "super human" powers and diseases are but some of the ways the evil jinn keep contact with humans. There are rituals that people wishing to establish a relationship with the jinns go through. The benefits are supposed to be mutual, but sahir is never to let down their guard.
The wish granting genies are the imaginations Westerners have about the jinns. However, from a religious perspective the Muslim people have a much different understanding and teaching about them. The Jinn are nothing to joke about, if you are willing to open your mind to the possibility of their existence.
The jinns, according to islamic teachings, are created by smokeless fire. They were created much earlier than humanity. Their habitat used to be the planet Earth and they were Earth's highest intelligent creatures. Jinn's technology and knowledge are more developed than that of humankind to this day. One example is mention of jinn serving King Solomon (prophet Sulayman pbuh, in Islam). The jinn was able to bring Queen Sheeba's throne before Solomon with extreme speed.
The Islamic teaching says that long time ago, the jinns have abused the Earth so much that the Almighty has sent destruction upon them and decided to make the humankind to rule the Earth. Great battle occurred on Earth between Lord's angels and the jinn. Some jinns willingly surrendered and were assisted into a different dimension, others fought to the last. Eventually, the rebels stayed on Earth usually in the worst places (caves, dirty places, etc). To this day, the rebels lead by Satan, according to Islam, wreck havoc with human lives: from demonic possessions to disease. Far from 'genie making 3 wishes.' Rather, they are a force in continual warfare with humanity.
People having "super human" powers and diseases are but some of the ways the evil jinn keep contact with humans. There are rituals that people wishing to establish a relationship with the jinns go through. The benefits are supposed to be mutual, but sahir is never to let down their guard.
juantoo3
....whys guy.... ʎʇıɹoɥʇnɐ uoıʇsǝnb
Why couldn't both be true? Besides...what exactly is meant by the term "image?" Then we need to correlate your intended use of the term with the Hebrew in the original text to see if they align. My suspicion is that the term "G-d's image" isn't quite as cut and dried as many would seem to believe.
Sounds very interesting! Would you possibly have a quote for that I can look up, please?
Amica
Well-Known Member
- Messages
- 649
- Reaction score
- 11
- Points
- 18
Hi I,Brian!
Here are some of the quotes from the Noble Qur'an:
"O Moses! Verily I am Allah, the Lord of the Worlds….* (Al-Qasas 28:30)
..Blessed be Allah, the Cherisher and Sustainer of the worlds.* (Al-A`raf 7:54)
"Allah is He Who created seven Firmaments (heavens) and of the earth a similar number. Through the midst of them (Allah) descends His Command: that ye may know that Allah has power over all things and that Allah comprehends all things in (His) Knowledge." (At-Talaq 65: 12)
"Have you not seen how God has created seven skies (universes) one above the other?" 71:15
"And we have decorated the lowest heaven (universe) with lanterns (stars)." 41:12
NOTE: I am told that in Arabic language "seven" often does not actually mean 7, but rather a very large number of things. I am not a native Arabic speaker, so I am sure the natives could clarify.
Here are some of the quotes from the Noble Qur'an:
"O Moses! Verily I am Allah, the Lord of the Worlds….* (Al-Qasas 28:30)
..Blessed be Allah, the Cherisher and Sustainer of the worlds.* (Al-A`raf 7:54)
"Allah is He Who created seven Firmaments (heavens) and of the earth a similar number. Through the midst of them (Allah) descends His Command: that ye may know that Allah has power over all things and that Allah comprehends all things in (His) Knowledge." (At-Talaq 65: 12)
"Have you not seen how God has created seven skies (universes) one above the other?" 71:15
"And we have decorated the lowest heaven (universe) with lanterns (stars)." 41:12
NOTE: I am told that in Arabic language "seven" often does not actually mean 7, but rather a very large number of things. I am not a native Arabic speaker, so I am sure the natives could clarify.
Folks like to reference ....In my fathers house there are many rooms/mansions/universes...
But lets get to brass tacks....while we can make conjecture...if we were all literalists we'd be in trouble eh?
This is where the folks who scream you can't pick and choose start picking and choosing...
If Adam was elsewhere.....was the flood and Noah here? How about David? If Adam were elsewhere, exactly how do we get a direct line lineage to both Joseph and Mary as is constantly argued as evidence of a divine line? How about the chosen ones? The Iraeli's the bible obviously refers to earth as it is the creation story of the people on earth from people on earth a few thousand years ago...
I catch grief all the time, for picking and choosing what I take as fact, allegory, mythology, political satire, metaphor, parable, and made up added bull... So happy to have new members of my club.
But lets get to brass tacks....while we can make conjecture...if we were all literalists we'd be in trouble eh?
This is where the folks who scream you can't pick and choose start picking and choosing...
If Adam was elsewhere.....was the flood and Noah here? How about David? If Adam were elsewhere, exactly how do we get a direct line lineage to both Joseph and Mary as is constantly argued as evidence of a divine line? How about the chosen ones? The Iraeli's the bible obviously refers to earth as it is the creation story of the people on earth from people on earth a few thousand years ago...
I catch grief all the time, for picking and choosing what I take as fact, allegory, mythology, political satire, metaphor, parable, and made up added bull... So happy to have new members of my club.
Genesis (along with the rest of the scriptures) really isn't about other planets. It is specifically about humans and our relationship to God - specifically our separation from God and subsequent redemption. So, viewing the entirety of the Bible in this context, I really don't see how life on any other given planet would at all alter that view.
The Bible also does not mention computers, cars, giraffes, or gorillas. Yet the existence of any one or all of these things does not change the overall view of it.
Genesis 1 doesn't even have to precisely mention when other planets evolved to still be an accurate depiction of our own planet's development - because it isn't about other planets, it's about ours.
The earth was last created in the image of the Creator(s) abode. The whole universe is the garden of eden and earth is the center of that garden. so life on other planets is significant. I believe that the life on other planets also have scriptures because angelic beings like them were sent to them because they are also in the fallen condition......mortal. The heavenly or angelic kingdom is a larger version of the earthly kingdom. It exists beyond this universe and this universes heavenly houses and it a universe consisting of celestial spheres. If angelic beings(a large number of them) were to make an appearance here on earth they would show up in a celestial sphere similar to the sphere in the movie Starman. If you have ever seen the movie you can get a visual idea of what I mean.
If you have not seen the movie here is the end scene. Starman (1984) - End scene - YouTube