Truth

[AdvaitaZen]

So be the dove and choose a serpent. Be the one and choose an other. Why do you say relationship is not an option?

I think you have misunderstood him.

He has said relationship is not an option because it is necessary, he has said the only question is learning how to relate. It appears you are having difficultly with this currently.

I do not agree, but I have discussed why elsewhere already.

 

[luecy7]

I think you have misunderstood him.

He has said relationship is not an option because it is necessary, he has said the only question is learning how to relate. It appears you are having difficultly with this currently.

I do not agree, but I have discussed why elsewhere already.

You are free to avoid relationships, and you have called that necessary.

 

[Ecumenist]

The arhats whom I have known, and know, are anything but nothing. I think you might want to ask one sometime how things are ~ there in nothingness/nowhere-land. Is this a Beatles song? Or is it Strawberry Fields? Are you quite sure that Tomorrow Never Knows? Or want you join me, Within You, Without You.

The problem is, you cannot pull a person onboard your `raft' ~ and expect everyone else to play the same logic games, or riddle figuring, or whatever. Most people will find my poetry or word salad, as bananabrain puts it, difficult. Only the verbosity is excessive, in my experience.

Stream-of-Consciousness is, in my present frame of mine, far bolder than attempting to force, or fit it all, into rigid boxes, made of ticky-tacky, yet I'm going to bank on, rest firm in, and otherwise feel secure about my sub-atomic and subtler Constitution, for the moment. Now you see, if I were to leave momentarily, from my immediate concern, precisely because I was and am well content within the which, that entire environs or `frame of mind' associated with the external world of the senses, what quite might happens, if I can both close my eyes and manage to otherwise avoid, or not mind, those strange musical noises ... someone's mix of weird sonic adventures, quite the like as I enjoy if I want to pass some time, and otherwise see what new Flag is unfurled. Thus the standards of the present day. and those who bear them, in this part of the Play. Mostly I was waiting for a chance to stop the music, yet the metaphor is evident. So it plays on ....

Try it. Close your eyes and type. Either you can bring us there, somehow, or else I will be forced to say:

Twinkle, twinkle, little Star, how I wonder what you are

 

[AdvaitaZen]

You are free to avoid relationships, and you have called that necessary.

I have said nothing about avoiding relationship.

I have only spoken of the dangers in dependence on them.

 

[AdvaitaZen]

The arhats whom I have known, and know, are anything but nothing. I think you might want to ask one sometime how things are ~ there in nothingness/nowhere-land. Is this a Beatles song? Or is it Strawberry Fields? Are you quite sure that Tomorrow Never Knows? Or want you join me, Within You, Without You.

Tomorrow never comes because when it arrives it is the present.

I would suggest you speak further on the topic of their nature, if they say they are the Self, ask them the nature of the Self. If they point at anything in time, they are not arhats.

The problem is, you cannot pull a person onboard your `raft' ~ and expect everyone else to play the same logic games, or riddle figuring, or whatever. Most people will find my poetry or word salad, as bananabrain puts it, difficult. Only the verbosity is excessive, in my experience.

What you do not realize is you're already on the raft, I am merely trying to show you it. What arises from this knowledge is up to you, it is not freedom if I continue to force your expression of the raft. Neither is it freedom if I were able to force you to look at it, nonetheless, the raft remains there.

Stream-of-Consciousness is, in my present frame of mine, far bolder than attempting to force, or fit it all, into rigid boxes, made of ticky-tacky, yet I'm going to bank on, rest firm in, and otherwise feel secure about my sub-atomic and subtler Constitution, for the moment. Now you see, if I were to leave momentarily, from my immediate concern, precisely because I was and am well content within the which, that entire environs or `frame of mind' associated with the external world of the senses, what quite might happens, if I can both close my eyes and manage to otherwise avoid, or not mind, those strange musical noises ... someone's mix of weird sonic adventures, quite the like as I enjoy if I want to pass some time, and otherwise see what new Flag is unfurled. Thus the standards of the present day. and those who bear them, in this part of the Play. Mostly I was waiting for a chance to stop the music, yet the metaphor is evident. So it plays on ....

The raft is simply that in which the stream of consciousness flows, although it becomes more difficult to further the metaphor now.

Try it. Close your eyes and type. Either you can bring us there, somehow, or else I will be forced to say:

Twinkle, twinkle, little Star, how I wonder what you are

I can not bring you to where you are, I can merely try to assist you in recognizing it.

 

[AdvaitaZen]

Aversion is as dangerous as attachment, yet between these two many see indifference and call Buddha a nihilist.

The true center of all opposites is what is called compassion by the Buddhists, it is to be totally here, allowing what is the case to be. In many streams it is called love, for love is the merging of opposites, most commonly man and woman in our experience, or more correctly, object and subject. When separation falls, when the wall no longer divides, that is love. It is this love which is called divine love, and we are told God is love because God has no division or other.

Finding this is the object of all religion, yet when it is found, all religion must also be dropped, else it will become the new reason for division.

 

[luecy7]

I have said nothing about avoiding relationship.

I have only spoken of the dangers in dependence on them.

A child has to leave the nest eventually, or the nest will leave it.

 

[AdvaitaZen]

Jesus said, "It is not the whole who need the physician, but the sick. But go and learn what this means: 'I desire mercy, not sacrifice.' For I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners."

Sin means to miss the mark, wholeness is the target, and all righteousness stems from this knowing.

 

[Ecumenist]

I would suggest you speak further on the topic of their nature, if they say they are the Self, ask them the nature of the Self. If they point at anything in time, they are not arhats.

Christ was an arhat, and he pointed to many things. He answered the question and taught regarding the Divine.

What you do not realize is you're already on the raft, I am merely trying to show you it.

Thanks, really, but, that's ok. I'm pretty sure I'm aware of it already.

What arises from this knowledge is up to you, it is not freedom if I continue to force your expression of the raft. Neither is it freedom if I were able to force you to look at it, nonetheless, the raft remains there.

Let's not play magical spoon-bender, all Uri Geller and Matrix-like. I think we'll be quite fine the way we are.
Maybe a good chapter of Krishnamurti would do for you? You know the guy ... ?

The raft is simply that in which the stream of consciousness flows, although it becomes more difficult to further the metaphor now.

I have a manomayakosha ... and yes, there is Antah Karana, Karana Sarira ... Ahamkara & Son of Fire, Son of Mind, Agnishvatta ~*~ Manasputra

That Threefold being occupies, or we might say co-occupies with us, the Dharmakaya, Sambhogakaya & Nirmanakaya vestitures until we become a Lohan. At that point there is no need further for the Solar Angel, or Lha, but not before. There is another Order of Divinity, or Station in the Heavens exemplified and illustrated by every Initiate of arhat degree ... yet these become HIS vehicles, these three: Atmic, Buddhic and ~ another, sheath.

So until WE have crossed, and reached that further Shore, it behooves us to at least TRY as best we may to relate to our Brother WoMan, and keep it all together, in Service of the PLAN.

I can not bring you to where you are, I can merely try to assist you in recognizing it.

Thank you. I can HONESTLY say I will do my best here ... to help you do the same. And of course you cannot bring me to where I already are; I'm be knowing that!

 

[AdvaitaZen]

A child has to leave the nest eventually, or the nest will leave it.

Why act on such conclusions, rather than merely wait to see what is presented when the necessity is actually presented?

It seems to me that parents do not actually want the burden offspring present, yet the offspring did not choose to be. We live vicariously through our young because we have realized the futility of our own pursuits.

The nest leaves us all, whether we have created it or our parents have.

 

[AdvaitaZen]

Christ was an arhat, and he pointed to many things. He answered the question and taught regarding the Divine.

It is humorous that you choose one who is dead, for we cannot ask him directly, we can only project our own conclusions onto him.

Let's not play magical spoon-bender, all Uri Geller and Matrix-like. I think we'll be quite fine the way we are.
Maybe a good chapter of Krishnamurti would do for you? You know the guy ... ?

Conditioning of self-improvement

The religions that we have do not help us to understand that which is the real because they are essentially based, not on the abandonment of the self, but on the improvement, the refinement of the self, which is the continuity of the self in different forms. It is only the very few who break away from society, not the outward trappings of society, but from all the implications of a society which is based on acquisitiveness, on envy, on comparison, competition. This society conditions the mind to a particular pattern of thought, the pattern of self-improvement, self-adjustment, self-sacrifice, and only those who are capable of breaking away from all conditioning can discover that which is not measurable by the mind.

So, everywhere society is conditioning the individual, and this conditioning takes the form of self-improvement, which is really the perpetuation of the 'me', the ego, in different forms. Self-improvement may be gross or it may be very, very refined when it becomes the practice of virtue, goodness, the so-called love of one's neighbor, but essentially it is the continuance of the 'me', which is a product of the conditioning influences of society. All your endeavor has gone into becoming something, either here, if you can make it, or if not, in another world; but it is the same urge, the same drive to maintain and continue the self.
​

That Threefold being occupies, or we might say co-occupies with us, the Dharmakaya, Sambhogakaya & Nirmanakaya vestitures until we become a Lohan. At that point there is no need further for the Solar Angel, or Lha, but not before. There is another Order of Divinity, or Station in the Heavens exemplified and illustrated by every Initiate of arhat degree ... yet these become HIS vehicles, these three: Atmic, Buddhic and ~ another, sheath.

Okay, now tell me, what do these mean existentially? It is perfectly good quoting, but do you know what they mean from experience?

So until WE have crossed, and reached that further Shore, it behooves us to at least TRY as best we may to relate to our Brother WoMan, and keep it all together, in Service of the PLAN.

Please observe what I have quoted of Jiddu.

Thank you. I an HONESTLY say I will do my best here ... to help you do the same. And of course you cannot bring me to where I already are; I'm be knowing that!

 

[AdvaitaZen]

I would note, however, that even Jesus has said "before Abraham was, I am", thus it seems evident he is not that which arises in time, but some other principle.

 

[luecy7]

Jesus said, "It is not the whole who need the physician, but the sick. But go and learn what this means: 'I desire mercy, not sacrifice.' For I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners."

Sin means to miss the mark, wholeness is the target, and all righteousness stems from this knowing.

You have slaughtered that verse.

 

[AdvaitaZen]

You have slaughtered that verse.

Sorry, it was from memory, here is a direct quote:

And as Jesus passed forth from thence, he saw a man, named Matthew, sitting at the receipt of custom: and he saith unto him, Follow me. And he arose, and followed him. 10 And it came to pass, as Jesus sat at meat in the house, behold, many publicans and sinners came and sat down with him and his disciples. 11 And when the Pharisees saw it, they said unto his disciples, Why eateth your Master with publicans and sinners? 12 But when Jesus heard that, he said unto them, They that be whole need not a physician, but they that are sick. 13 But go ye and learn what that meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

– Matthew 9:9-13

Again, sin is to miss the mark, repentance is to return.

The righteous are those that act from the knowledge of wholeness.

 

[luecy7]

Sorry, it was from memory, here is a direct quote:

Again, sin is to miss the mark, repentance is to return.

The righteous are those that act from the knowledge of wholeness.

You have personally slaughtered that verse.

 

[AdvaitaZen]

You have personally slaughtered that verse.

Since you will not advance this assertion, I will have to accept your conclusion.

 

[Ecumenist]

All that I truly know, I know from experience. ~Buddha

Yes, I know what the things are that I mentioned. I am able to distinguish a lot of it more than intellectually, yet no, as neither of us is a Mahasiddha that I am aware of, I am not qualified to teach the Gupta Vidya. Are you?

Why can't you ask the arhats who were Jesus, and the Christ, respectively? I believe each of them will quite be able to comment for you on whatever topic you like, be that Advaita Vedanta, the nature of the Divine {SELF} or non-duality, Principles of our Constitution or what-have-you. They will also be able to explain any confusion or questions regarding Krishnaji that one may find.

Right now, I don't really feel like I'm confused about any of it. Or much else, and I truly appreciate people taking the time ... to Smile.

 

[luecy7]

All that I truly know, I know from experience. ~Buddha

Gem. Where did Buddha say this?

 

[AdvaitaZen]

All that I truly know, I know from experience. ~Buddha

As apposed to knowledge, which is learned and merely accepted as fact.

All knowledge must be experienced directly before it can be considered known.

Yes, I know what the things are that I mentioned. I am able to distinguish a lot of it more than intellectually, yet no, as neither of us is a Mahasiddha that I am aware of, I am not qualified to teach the Gupta Vidya. Are you?

Gupta means preserve, what I am saying is utterly destructive.

Yet, what I say is direct vidya, direct wisdom.

Why can't you ask the arhats who were Jesus, and the Christ, respectively? I believe each of them will quite be able to comment for you on whatever topic you like, be that Advaita Vedanta, the nature of the Divine {SELF} or non-duality, Principles of our Constitution or what-have-you. They will also be able to explain any confusion or questions regarding Krishnaji that one may find.

Jesus is dead, I would not dispute my being called a Christ - except that all titles are false, exactly because we will project our own meaning and significance onto them.

Right now, I don't really feel like I'm confused about any of it. Or much else, and I truly appreciate people taking the time ... to Smile.

It is my pleasure since you appear basically open.

 

[Ecumenist]

THE LORD BUDDHA HAS SAID​

that we must not believe in a thing said merely because it is said; nor traditions because they have been
handed down from antiquity; nor rumours, as such; nor writings by sages, because sages wrote them;
nor fancies that we may suspect to have been inspired in us by a Deva (that is, in presumed spiritual
inspiration); nor from inferences drawn from some haphazard assumption we may have made; nor
because of what seems an analogical necessity; nor on the mere authority of our teachers or masters.
But we are to believe when the writing, doctrine, or saying is corroborated by our own reason and
consciousness. ''For this," says he in concluding, "I taught you not to believe merely because you have
heard, but when you believed of your consciousness, then to act accordingly and abundantly."
—Secret Doctrine III. 401.