Is there life elsewhere in the universe?

Gordian Knot said:
The reason I am mostly certain we have not been visited is my, admittedly, limited knowledge of physics. The cost in time, power and energy to make such a trip dwarfs the imagination of the average person.
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The precondition for being visited is a potential visitor.
 
If one works out how we would visit: the usual answer is a self-replicating Turing type machine. Unless some visitor figured out a way to intercept them all (a big daring assumption), the fact that one has never approached us is pretty good evidence that life (in the milky way at least) is limited to about our evolutionary status.
 
Jayhawker Soule said:
I suspect that life is ubiquitous, with intelligent life being exceedingly rare.
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I did not address that point, Jay. I agree with you completely. Earth, as far as we know, got along just peachy for most of its 4 1/2 billion years without intelligent life. That does suggest that there is no prerequisite for intelligent life to arise.
 
Gordian Knot said:
I did not address that point, Jay. I agree with you completely. Earth, as far as we know, got along just peachy for most of its 4 1/2 billion years without intelligent life. That does suggest that there is no prerequisite for intelligent life to arise.
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Furthermore ...

You note "our humongous human ego" above. Closely related, I think, is a teleological fallacy (or inference) that pictures evolution as a ladder rather than a sieve - an ever-present ladder with us standing naturally on or near the top.

This, of course, has theological implications. Either we are intended or we are no more than unintended consequences - sort of an unpredictable butterfly effect. Like people such as E. O. Wilson, I believe that the former remains a reasonable inference, but, also like Wilson, I acknowledge that it is only an inference and a provisional one at that.
 
Gordian Knot said:
I did not address that point, Jay. I agree with you completely. Earth, as far as we know, got along just peachy for most of its 4 1/2 billion years without intelligent life. That does suggest that there is no prerequisite for intelligent life to arise.
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Not necessarily though, It could just mean that other intelligent life was not interested in our planet and species then. I believe we will probably never know for sure though, either way. Bigfoot on the other hand...
 
Dookie Marcus said:
I don't. I have never been the type of person to keep myself trapped in a bubble.
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To suggest that someone who views "open mind" as a worthless idiom thereby chooses to keep himself "trapped in a bubble" is both ad hominem and distortion.

The phrase "open mind" can be used to support everything from the 'possibility' of SETI to the 'possibility' of Yeti. And while science is "open minded" in the sense that its determinations are provisional and subject to change if faced with new information, its views of SETI and Yeti are decidedly different. By claiming to be "open minded" you are dismissing the importance of discernment or you are saying exceedingly little.
 
I kinda like DM's use. It (to me) represents the possibility that everything is just a probability. And each of us, based on our inferential, statistical, and logical "openess" judge the possibilities of stuff. I do not believe that is "exceedingly little" but "overwhelmingly much".
 
Forgive me for one moment.
AAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRRGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!

Whew. Thank you.

If there is one thing I will never understand it is that it is okay to have opinions about the definitions of words. This occurs every single day, everywhere I go on the net, or out in the world.

Definitions are not opinions. They are definitions!!!! Grabbed this definition off Dictionary.com.

o·pen-mind·ed [oh-puhn-mahyn-did]
1.
having or showing a mind receptive to new ideas or arguments.
2.
unprejudiced; unbigoted; impartial.

To suggest that a word means something other than its definition is insanity. How are we ever going to be able to effectively communicate with each other if we don't have a foundation of defined words in which to share our thoughts?

Apologies to all for the rant. This is one of those foibles of people that drives me insane. Even more insane than usual. And that is saying something!

______________________________________________________________________________
Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts. Daniel Patrick Moynihan.
 
Jayhawker Soule said:
To suggest that someone who views "open mind" as a worthless idiom thereby chooses to keep himself "trapped in a bubble" is both ad hominem and distortion.

The phrase "open mind" can be used to support everything from the 'possibility' of SETI to the 'possibility' of Yeti. And while science is "open minded" in the sense that its determinations are provisional and subject to change if faced with new information, its views of SETI and Yeti are decidedly different. By claiming to be "open minded" you are dismissing the importance of discernment or you are saying exceedingly little.
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I don't think your definition of open-minded applies to me.
 
radarmark said:
I kinda like DM's use. It (to me) represents the possibility that everything is just a probability. And each of us, based on our inferential, statistical, and logical "openess" judge the possibilities of stuff. I do not believe that is "exceedingly little" but "overwhelmingly much".
Click to expand...

Thanks and that is the way I see it.
 
Gordian Knot said:
Forgive me for one moment.
AAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRRGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!

Whew. Thank you.

If there is one thing I will never understand it is that it is okay to have opinions about the definitions of words. This occurs every single day, everywhere I go on the net, or out in the world.

Definitions are not opinions. They are definitions!!!! Grabbed this definition off Dictionary.com.

o·pen-mind·ed [oh-puhn-mahyn-did]
1.
having or showing a mind receptive to new ideas or arguments.
2.
unprejudiced; unbigoted; impartial.

To suggest that a word means something other than its definition is insanity. How are we ever going to be able to effectively communicate with each other if we don't have a foundation of defined words in which to share our thoughts?

Apologies to all for the rant. This is one of those foibles of people that drives me insane. Even more insane than usual. And that is saying something!

______________________________________________________________________________
Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts. Daniel Patrick Moynihan.
Click to expand...

Okay, If that was directed at me I don't see by my statement that I said anything different.
 
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