What I believe.....

[Gordian Knot]

I realised there is nothing to know and find. All questions that arise and eloquent, scientific language you use to communicate and understand...there is no way for the human mind to find an answer...because there is nothing to know. Even if there is something the preconditioned mind will be unable to grasp this.

God, religion and science will all lead us to the same end...there is nothing to know. So stop asking questions for which there are no answers.

I have lived this way for 10 yrs now and feel myself more at ease. I call it the 'natural' way (animal way) of existence.

An interesting pov. An anti-Socrates philosophy. Instead of question everything, question nothing. The question of whether humans can ever answer the BIG questions is something I ponder. Can we ever answer the question of an afterlife, with or without Gods? Can we ever answer the question of how the Universe came into existence from nothing?

Personally, I have real doubts any sure answers are within the capability of our species. Gods must be accepted on belief - there will never be any proof. Science has hypothesized that our Universe exists because there are 11 dimensions. Multiple dimensions have to be accepted on belief as well; we are unlikely to ever have proof.

Given that these statements are true, does that mean we should not even bother to try. This is where my thinking differs from yours. I believe we should try even if we are doomed to failure. The benefit of beating our heads on philosophical brick walls is what we may discover along the way. Even if the BIG Q's are beyond us, what ancillary knowledge might we learn by trying.

I suppose an analogy that works for me is that the journey is more important than the destination.

 

[Nothingtoknow]

Hello Gordian,

Let's build on something we are on common grounds. 'Finding answers for the BIG questions' - you got me right, we will never find an answer. So the options are 1. Stop questioning 2. Continue questioning - is there God? Afterlife? Dimensional universe ? Origin and Big Bang.

If we choose the first option- life would become dull and monotonous, which i would call the natural way of existence. In fact the focus would solely be food, shelter and clothing i.e animal/basic needs. No purpose.

As humans, when we have achieved our basic needs, the drive is to look for more. We have developed a 'questioning mind' . This I believe is again to stabilise our survival. We look for questions and believe in 'cause-effect'. E.g Big Bang should have caused existence of space/time, there should be a creator, life just can't be too short-therefore there should be a afterlife, reincarnation, etc, we feel good to think big so there should be a multidimensional universe. It makes us feel secure and the answers are created by our imagination and passed on to generations-I call this conditioned mind.

I agree with you, the second option sounds more appealing and the desire to find a answer will keep us going. Philosophers in the past and present have done this except no one really has come up with any firm answers. ( sorry, I don't read any specific philosophy)

So your point of trying to find answers to the big questions to keep us occupied in our journey seems reasonable. I would call it 'time pass' questions. It has no other purpose.

Regards.

 

[wil]

Great stuff... enjoying the read...

 

[Nothingtoknow]

There are dimensions that exist in this universe . One dimension is the spirit place some refer to as heaven. However, the actual heavenly kingdom exists beyond this universe and is a place where the spirit soul and bodies are one. They are separate places but connected.

Interesting concepts! Are these 'Dimensions' your belief or someone's belief ? Have you experienced these dimensions yourself or does one experience this after death?

 

[donnann]

Interesting concepts! Are these 'Dimensions' your belief or someone's belief ? Have you experienced these dimensions yourself or does one experience this after death?

I cannot speak for other people but I have experienced the different dimensions. Because the soul and spirit are not one with the body but are connected to it those places where the soul and spirit exist are demensions.

 

[Gordian Knot]

Hello Gordian,

Hello Nothing. Your comments have caused me much confusion, so it seemed a reasonable idea to ask for clarification. To With:

Let's build on something we are on common grounds. 'Finding answers for the BIG questions' - you got me right, we will never find an answer. So the options are 1. Stop questioning 2. Continue questioning - is there God? Afterlife? Dimensional universe ? Origin and Big Bang.

If we choose the first option- life would become dull and monotonous, which i would call the natural way of existence. In fact the focus would solely be food, shelter and clothing i.e animal/basic needs. No purpose.

Here is my first conundrum. You have said in a previous post that you believe that there is nothing to know, and to look is pointless.

In the above you suggest that to stop questioning would be dull and monotonous.

Are these two comments not opposites? Or are you saying that to stop questioning may be dull and monotonous, but preferable to the alternatives?

As humans, when we have achieved our basic needs, the drive is to look for more. We have developed a 'questioning mind' . This I believe is again to stabilise our survival. We look for questions and believe in 'cause-effect'. E.g Big Bang should have caused existence of space/time, there should be a creator, life just can't be too short-therefore there should be a afterlife, reincarnation, etc, we feel good to think big so there should be a multidimensional universe. It makes us feel secure and the answers are created by our imagination and passed on to generations-I call this conditioned mind.

My takeaway from this paragraph is that the drive to look for more is useful in theory, but really pointless in execution. Well, not completely pointless; as I infer you believe the drive to look for more is to make us feel good and that is the only genuine benefit. Yes? No?

I agree with you, the second option sounds more appealing and the desire to find a answer will keep us going. Philosophers in the past and present have done this except no one really has come up with any firm answers. ( sorry, I don't read any specific philosophy)

Again I am unsure of the point of your response here. You agree that the second option "sounds" more appealing, though you yourself do not think it actually is more appealing?

So your point of trying to find answers to the big questions to keep us occupied in our journey seems reasonable. I would call it 'time pass' questions. It has no other purpose.

Once more, my take on what you said is that trying to find answers to big questions has the benefit of keeping us occupied, though you think its only real use is to pass the time; other than that, it has no purpose?

My thoughts are that attempting to find answers to big questions has great purpose. Though we will never answer those big questions, we will find answers to many other questions concerning why we are here. And what we are meant to do here. That is what I meant by the journey being the most important. By striving to answer Big Q's, we will, along the way, find answers to lesser, but no less important questions. That is what makes the attempt both worthwhile and purposefull.

Regards.

And to you!

 

[donnann]

Hello Nothing. Your comments have caused me much confusion, so it seemed a reasonable idea to ask for clarification. To With:



Here is my first conundrum. You have said in a previous post that you believe that there is nothing to know, and to look is pointless.

In the above you suggest that to stop questioning would be dull and monotonous.

Are these two comments not opposites? Or are you saying that to stop questioning may be dull and monotonous, but preferable to the alternatives?



My takeaway from this paragraph is that the drive to look for more is useful in theory, but really pointless in execution. Well, not completely pointless; as I infer you believe the drive to look for more is to make us feel good and that is the only genuine benefit. Yes? No?



Again I am unsure of the point of your response here. You agree that the second option "sounds" more appealing, though you yourself do not think it actually is more appealing?



Once more, my take on what you said is that trying to find answers to big questions has the benefit of keeping us occupied, though you think its only real use is to pass the time; other than that, it has no purpose?

My thoughts are that attempting to find answers to big questions has great purpose. Though we will never answer those big questions, we will find answers to many other questions concerning why we are here. And what we are meant to do here. That is what I meant by the journey being the most important. By striving to answer Big Q's, we will, along the way, find answers to lesser, but no less important questions. That is what makes the attempt both worthwhile and purposefull.



And to you!

I believe the nature and purpose of life is to love and be loved. This may seem like a really simple concept but sometimes the simplest answer is the right one. We originally were beings that were love literally . The soul which is emotional essence was love, the spirit which is the mind was love and these were one with the bodies. Maybe that is why jesus said love was the greatest of all.

 

[Nothingtoknow]

Sorry, I will try to clarify, but may be repetitive in the process.

Hello Nothing. Your comments have caused me much confusion, so it seemed a reasonable idea to ask for clarification. To With:

The confusion seems to be what 'I' believe and what I think the reasons why 'we' in general fall into thinking/believing traps.

Here is my first conundrum. You have said in a previous post that you believe that there is nothing to know, and to look is pointless.


In the above you suggest that to stop questioning would be dull and monotonous.

Are these two comments not opposites? Or are you saying that to stop questioning may be dull and monotonous, but preferable to the alternatives?

'I' believe that, because, there is no answer or no other way to find an answer (apart from our conditioned thinking mind), to question is a futile exercise. For example, what happened before the Big bang- there is no way to find an answer in a way the human mind can grasp. So asking the question is futile. If one could live a life (I can live that way now), which will be dull and monotonous (but natural) that's fine.

But, 'we' humans due to our nature (drive to look for more) would prefer the alternative i.e look for Big questions and answers For example- forming theories for Big bang and singular etc. and bringing the God-creation concept. This ensures continuity of thought and a sense of purpose. It creates science and religion. But there is no answer and thats the point. You could spend a life time asking these questions and expecting a answer.

I cannot saying this or that is a better option. All I can say is there is nothing to know.


My takeaway from this paragraph is that the drive to look for more is useful in theory, but really pointless in execution. Well, not completely pointless; as I infer you believe the drive to look for more is to make us feel good and that is the only genuine benefit. Yes? No?

Questioning= Drive to look for more-Make us feel good (continuity of thought and a sense of purpose) and that is the only genuine benefit- Yes.



Again I am unsure of the point of your response here. You agree that the second option "sounds" more appealing, though you yourself do not think it actually is more appealing?

Yes, second option i.e BigQ- To know, sounds more appealing (because it gives a 'false' sense of purpose (of which there is no need for survival), but I do not think it has any further 'benefit'



Once more, my take on what you said is that trying to find answers to big questions has the benefit of keeping us occupied, though you think its only real use is to pass the time; other than that, it has no purpose?

My thoughts are that attempting to find answers to big questions has great purpose. Though we will never answer those big questions, we will find answers to many other questions concerning why we are here. And what we are meant to do here. That is what I meant by the journey being the most important. By striving to answer Big Q's, we will, along the way, find answers to lesser, but no less important questions. That is what makes the attempt both worthwhile and purposefull.

Sounds good but very vague- tell me what is the 'great purpose' and what answers have you found so far 'why we are here'?



And to you!

 

[Nothingtoknow]

I believe the nature and purpose of life is to love and be loved. This may seem like a really simple concept but sometimes the simplest answer is the right one. We originally were beings that were love literally . The soul which is emotional essence was love, the spirit which is the mind was love and these were one with the bodies. Maybe that is why jesus said love was the greatest of all.

Most of what you are saying is just repetition of a pre-conditioned mind. Not your fault.

Love and be loved, soul, spirit are 'interesting' but 'empty words' for me. You may feel 'good' in this illusion - so be it. There is nothing to loose.

Purpose of life according to me - is 'no purpose' and no way of knowing if there is one. Only imagination- sorry to be so negative but I am not depressed
I have been in the above state (love, being loved, soul, spirit etc) as well, many years ago, and understand why it is so appealing.

Love is just a feeling created in the brain (a chemical reaction) to facilitate attraction towards others. In nature, its purpose (if it has one) is procreation ( animals and humans alike). Thats the way nature operates- whether we accept or not.

Love is not dominant state, the moment you have physical pain or hunger, love will just disappear. You will only think about your survival (survival of the self is natural primary goal).

Can I ask you, how do you know 'the purpose of life' is to love and be loved.
Do animals have this purpose? or is it only a human concept.

 

[Gordian Knot]

Nothing, I will answer your final question in a bit; it will take some time composing. In the meantime, how do you differentiate accepting there is nothing to know as separate from stagnation. Because the two seem the same to me.

If everyone believed there is nothing to know, we would never have gotten any further along than our caveman origins.

I'm also curious just how you go on with your own life if life has no purpose? Why bother with doing anything, if there is no purpose in any of it?

 

[A Cup Of Tea]

Nothing, have you considered that you have a per-conditioned notion of 'purpose' or 'value'?

 

[donnann]

Most of what you are saying is just repetition of a pre-conditioned mind. Not your fault.

Love and be loved, soul, spirit are 'interesting' but 'empty words' for me. You may feel 'good' in this illusion - so be it. There is nothing to loose.

Purpose of life according to me - is 'no purpose' and no way of knowing if there is one. Only imagination- sorry to be so negative but I am not depressed
I have been in the above state (love, being loved, soul, spirit etc) as well, many years ago, and understand why it is so appealing.

Love is just a feeling created in the brain (a chemical reaction) to facilitate attraction towards others. In nature, its purpose (if it has one) is procreation ( animals and humans alike). Thats the way nature operates- whether we accept or not.

Love is not dominant state, the moment you have physical pain or hunger, love will just disappear. You will only think about your survival (survival of the self is natural primary goal).

Can I ask you, how do you know 'the purpose of life' is to love and be loved.
Do animals have this purpose? or is it only a human concept.

All intelligent beings have this purpose. I know for sure this concept is correct. Your not just a body with primal urges. Because of the fall the spirit and soul are not one with your body. Your spirit is a white light that is a pattern that is total consciousness. Your soul is multicolored light which is a pattern that looks like different colored paint pallets or puzzle pieces and is literal emotion. Then there is black light spirit which is pure sexual consciousness. If your body were to be made one with this your whole being would be love literally. Contained within love is good things like compassion. If you were to feel compassion the soul lights would light up in a specific pattern. Since you are a being that is love your whole soul would be a beautiful light adding color to your body. Your body right now is in the separated state so you can only feel things on the primal level of the senses. Your whole body is really like the skin for the soul and spirit. I have had some mystical experiences that showed me that love is the purpose.

 

[Nothingtoknow]

They are same. Stagnant brings in a sense of negativity which is not appealing to our culture which focuses on progress. Does a dog and cat have a purpose? Is their life stagnant? Are we any different from them. I don't think so. Difficult to accept, but we are no more worthy.

We are no better than the caveman. We still try to kill our neighbours. Look at the intra and inter religious ( Shia -Sunni, Hindu- Muslim, catholic-Protestant) and political conflicts. Caveman killed with sprear, we now kill with nuclear weapons.

Yes, I am in harmony with myself and nature in accepting life has no grand purpose. There is no drive to believe in any religion or political system. All that matters is basic needs and money ( which can ensure my basic needs). Money is perhaps the most important but how much money is enough is difficult. No belief in achievement, realisation. Look at life in a plane way yet carry on with daily activities.


And when I look at the world around me , it's amazing to see how 'stupid' people are. But, that's fine.

 

[Nothingtoknow]

Nothing, have you considered that you have a per-conditioned notion of 'purpose' or 'value'?

Yes. I do have a pre-conditioning just as everyone is. One cannot think separately from his preconditioning. Thought of purpose and value arise from pre-conditioning. Preconditioning is everything that happens since our birth and is registered in our memory. Our thinking and behavior is within this framework.

 

[Nothingtoknow]

All intelligent beings have this purpose. I know for sure this concept is correct. Your not just a body with primal urges. Because of the fall the spirit and soul are not one with your body. Your spirit is a white light that is a pattern that is total consciousness. Your soul is multicolored light which is a pattern that looks like different colored paint pallets or puzzle pieces and is literal emotion. Then there is black light spirit which is pure sexual consciousness. If your body were to be made one with this your whole being would be love literally. Contained within love is good things like compassion. If you were to feel compassion the soul lights would light up in a specific pattern. Since you are a being that is love your whole soul would be a beautiful light adding color to your body. Your body right now is in the separated state so you can only feel things on the primal level of the senses. Your whole body is really like the skin for the soul and spirit. I have had some mystical experiences that showed me that love is the purpose.

What happens when you are in that state of love and compassion? Apart from your thinking and feeling subjectively, in what way would you be different? Can you see those colors with your eyes or is it a imagination?

 

[donnann]

What happens when you are in that state of love and compassion? Apart from your thinking and feeling subjectively, in what way would you be different? Can you see those colors with your eyes or is it a imagination?

You would be in perfect immortal condtion and appear to be age 21 because the change would cause you to be at the age of maturity. You would feel the soul essence love as a part of your whole body literally. I had what some told me was a near death experience. During the experience I was shown the soul and it does look like paint pallets of different colors arranged in a pattern. It was my own soul that I was shown. During this experience after flying around in a dark place and ascending towards a white light when I came back down into the px I was in at the time I felt as if my molecules were scattered and merged together and I was literally love. I was given a choice to go or stay. Of course I stayed. This was one is a series of mystical experiences I have had that show not only what god is and does cause he saved me that day but also what we really were, are and going to be.

 

[Nothingtoknow]

You would be in perfect immortal condtion and appear to be age 21 because the change would cause you to be at the age of maturity. You would feel the soul essence love as a part of your whole body literally. I had what some told me was a near death experience. During the experience I was shown the soul and it does look like paint pallets of different colors arranged in a pattern. It was my own soul that I was shown. During this experience after flying around in a dark place and ascending towards a white light when I came back down into the px I was in at the time I felt as if my molecules were scattered and merged together and I was literally love. I was given a choice to go or stay. Of course I stayed. This was one is a series of mystical experiences I have had that show not only what god is and does cause he saved me that day but also what we really were, are and going to be.

Interesting.

'Perfect immortal condition' 'feeling and being 21' sounds exciting.
It seems you had the 'experience' which you always wished..
You said you were given the choice and you stayed. Do you mean stayed in the 'experience of love and soul' or this was a transient experience and you returned back to your original state.
If it is the former, then what change did that have in your day to day life.
If transient, then why did you not choose for it to be permanent.

 

[Nothingtoknow]

This is my belief:

As I said, life for me has no 'grand' purpose and even if there is one, there is no way of knowing it.

Nature has synthesised me (and others) by a process which we cannot grasp. There is no mystery or divine plan, no miracle...it is just what it is. What is the point in knowing it? The body is a mixture of matter and cells working in synchrony with rest of the nature. Like a machine..brain controls the physical actions. It senses and reacts.

My physical body needs food, shelter and clothing for survival and it will aim towards achieving this. The nature has this inbuilt mechanism (survival of fittest). So far it's the same for any animal species including humans (so, I am not more worthy than animal!)

In humans, however, the brain has developed into a thinking machine with emotions and ego. Again, It aids in survival. That is why humans have dominated over other animals.

Well, the problem is this thinking brain with its preconditioning and emotions has fallen into a trap. It wants and looks for permanence and stability in everything and avoids pain. It wants everlasting happiness and love, without understanding that all permanence is pain! Imagine being in the bed 24 hrs, mind will perceive it as pain. So, you move and walk and run, again body perceives this as pain, so you rest.

If I have to live then the choices are not to do anything, but that's again a pain.

So you may say, what's the point in living then if there is no purpose? I say the alternative i.e dying is more stressful. Dying is perceived as pain, so body will reject it. So one has no choice really. He has to live.

I can watch tv, work to earn, spend time with friends, travel, cook and eat good food ...there is no purpose, but there is no other better option. You see my point. There is no choice. Mind has to be kept and will be occupied with thought. Now, this could be anything..religion, politics, anger, depression. It is just a thought no real significance but no other alternative.

One will do this throughout his life span. Then through a natural mechanism the body perishes. The molecules and cells disintegrate into nature. There is no mind/thought to know what happens next. All beliefs end..just as falling into sleep and not waking up again.

That's why I say there is no purpose.
But knowing this and living with it is more easier for me.
I don't need any complex religion or theological or philosophical concept to live.
As I have said earlier, one could choose to have other beliefs and 'purpose'...the end result is the same.

This is Positive Pessimism for me.

 

[A Cup Of Tea]

So I'm reading you as having questions once, came up with a bunch of answers and have now constructed a world view. This doesn't sound very different from any other world view? You ease your pain by saying to yourself that there is no purpose, other ease theirs by saying there is...what are you doing on this site!?

 

[donnann]

Interesting.

'Perfect immortal condition' 'feeling and being 21' sounds exciting.
It seems you had the 'experience' which you always wished..
You said you were given the choice and you stayed. Do you mean stayed in the 'experience of love and soul' or this was a transient experience and you returned back to your original state.
If it is the former, then what change did that have in your day to day life.
If transient, then why did you not choose for it to be permanent.

Yes I returned back to the state I was previously in. After that happened I started going through all kinds of books to include the bible. I have had other mystical experiences as well after that event but its too much to go into. I did have some bad experiences as well but I don't like to talk about them because they are traumatic. The one question I ask myself is since I chose to stay and would have been in paradise had I not chosen to stay what point was it for me to go through all the bad stuff. Guess I will have to ask god that one day. After that experience I became a vegan,, I didn't drink any alcohol and I tried my best not to do anything wrong. The more I did that the worse things got. Everything happens for a reason and god knows us sometimes I think better than we know ourselves. He knew I would choose to stay. Other things have happened since then really amazing things that make me think it was worth staying. I have grown much since then. I am just now reaching maturity. I was like a babe in the woods back then. After all of this I think the most important thing is acts of kindness not only towards others but to ourselves as well. We can be really hard and unforgiving of ourselves. Have you ever had any life changing experiences?